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#41
Quote by realchrisbrooks
Yes, but until you've done the work, those things are party tricks at best.


But someone that has a natural advantage has more potential if they work the same amount. Just because some people are lazy doesn't negate the fact that an advantage is an advantage at the end of the day.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#42
realchrisbrooks 

I don't think that anyone would argue against success needing hard work in addition to good "music" genes. The debate is about whether such genes exist at all, and, if they do, how far a person could get without them. You might have good "learning"genes, even if you don't think you have particularly good "music" genes.  
#43
theogonia777

I honestly couldn't tell ya because everything (besides which side of the guitar to sit on) did not come naturally to me in the slightest. Neither did most subjects at school. Still, I think I can hang with a lot of peeps when it comes to moving a piece of plastic up and down. So, regardless of theories of natural ability, I submit myself as a poster child for Gumby + method + work = results and think that people who excuse themselves by "not being gifted" are copping out. I'd submit early exposure as a more relevant factor. No one is born being able to speak a language, but children absorb it better due to exposure at the right time.

I think it would be a really hard theory to test without a test group and control group and human beings come with too many inconsistencies to arrive at hard data. I guess you could come up with some kind of aptitude test and give both access to the same tuition material and see what happens.

I guess what I would say in regards to myself is that victories gave rise to more victories. When you conquer one area of a skill set, it's a foundation for the next. I think Mastery is a process and comprised of so many stages that I can't imagine for anyone that it just feels like a magic floodgate has opened.
Last edited by realchrisbrooks at Sep 22, 2017,
#44
Quote by realchrisbrooks
Yes, but until you've done the work, those things are party tricks at best.

I have one student who I guess you would call a natural at some things because he got to a certain level just by phoning it in. Same kid is now wondering why his friends suddenly improved to the level where they are overtaking him after working twice as hard the last few years. I told him to remember this day as the day when he figured out that natural talent means zero without work.

I'm the kid who had to work twice as hard to do anything but I'm happy to be that way because I enjoy the process.


It's the kids with the talent and the hours that are unstoppable, as far as virtuosity goes anyway. To say anyone can be a mozart with enough practice is flat out wrong. Sports is a decent analogy - everyone playing competitively is putting the same amount of time and yet some skyrocket and dwarf the others.

I'm not a fan of defeatism in music, so I'm certainly not advocating it. But it's clear that some people have better brains and better fingers for these things and when they dig in it's impossible for some to catch up.
#45
How many of you think the TS knew positively beforehand, that this was a "crowd trigger topic"? Let me see a show of hands....
#46
Quote by reverb66
To say anyone can be a mozart with enough practice is flat out wrong.


True, but to keep it on point, shredding is motor skills, not Mozart. We all have brains, hands and neural pathways, and awakening those is science, not nature or preselection. Maybe there's even a predisposition to motor skills. That's out of my range of expertise. But my thinking is that I wasn't born with more nerves in my hands than the next guy.
#47
It's the kids with the talent and the hours that are unstoppable, as far as virtuosity goes anyway.


Yeah.

Talent I have. Discipline? Time? Those I lack.

Result: learn quickly, plateau quickly. Stagnate into backsliding. Get back into it. Repeat.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#48
Quote by realchrisbrooks
True, but to keep it on point, shredding is motor skills, not Mozart. We all have brains, hands and neural pathways, and awakening those is science, not nature or preselection. Maybe there's even a predisposition to motor skills. That's out of my range of expertise. But my thinking is that I wasn't born with more nerves in my hands than the next guy.


Muscles come in different makeups. Having the right muscular makeup means less work to develop dexterity. It's the reason why the majority of professional basketball players and world class and sprinters are black. People of West African descent are built with a muscular makeup that gives them better speed, agility, and jumping ability. And there is more to hands than muscles. There is also flexibility, finger length and width, etc. These are all variables where certain traits make hands better suited to a task such as playing guitar.

Awakening your hands might not be nature, but nature gives some people more to awaken.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#49
Quote by Captaincranky
How many of you think the TS knew positively beforehand, that this was a "crowd trigger topic"? Let me see a show of hands....

Lol, everyone thinks everything is trolling nowadays. Pretty sad really. Can't even ask a legitimate question anymore without someone in the crowd saying it's a prank / troll / flame war starter because an entirely different person who replied to the topic had a different opinion than them. 

Interesting answers and views from everyone. I guess I should have been a little more specific when i posted the original post though, for those who maybe took it that I only thought speed alone is shredding. I didn't necessarily mean that to me just speed alone is shredding, what I meant more was how long it takes the average joe who works hard at it to be able to improve overall shred technique and speed at the same time. 
Thanks for the thoughts all.
#50
Has anyone ever conducted any scientific studies what actually happens in your tendons and muscles of your hands and fingers when we play guitar and how much of it is related to CNS rather than actual muscles in your hand? It's just like physical exercise on technical level and you will need to achieve certain amount of strength before you are able to play smoothly enough.

But of course the strength curve is different than in pure strength lifting (because it's totally different range of motion etc). You only need to be achieve certain amount of strength and endurance to overcome the technical barrier. So in this sense there might be a scientific reasoning which is the 'minimal' required time to develop this skill. Of course I'm just talking about the mechanical part, not about anything else what actually makes you decent as it's much more complex than strict physical ability.
Last edited by swampjesus at Sep 23, 2017,
#51
Quote by KGC1
Lol, everyone thinks everything is trolling nowadays. Pretty sad really. Can't even ask a legitimate question anymore without someone in the crowd saying it's a prank / troll / flame war starter because an entirely different person who replied to the topic had a different opinion than them. ...[ ]...l.
Quite frankly, I probably should have put up the "popcorn" emoticon and been done with i.

As I said though, this type of thread does provoke, or let's say "enable", a very lively dialog. These types of rambles are actually good for the site. "Click bait", has a negative connotation, whereas "traffic building", is very positive.

And just because I call somebody on something, doesn't necessarily mean I'm against it.

What I'm sure of, is that talking about this subject won't really change anyone's mind, thus the number of replies attempting to justify original positions on the topic, and the futile "windmill tilts", of those trying to modify those opinions.

At the end of the day, I'm not really criticizing the topic, just studying the psychology of it, using the :Socratic method". (Basic poke and prod).

BTW, don't put to much emphasis on my screen name, when you formulate your response to me. That's become part of the study. It modifies people's perception of my motives, right from the jump..

And also there's this from George Orwell:

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear".

Last edited by Captaincranky at Sep 23, 2017,
#52
Quote by Captaincranky

And also there's this from George Orwell:

"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear".



Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#53
dannyalcatraz

Telling Colin what he doesn't want to hear? "You belong in the CFL."

In all seriousness, please play for the REDBLACKS. Ryan Lindley is gonna ruin the season (you may remember Lindley from a January 2015 game where the Cardinals put up well under 100 yards in a loss to the 7-8-1 Panthers. Well, it turns out that Lindley can't hack it as a 3rd stringer north of the border, either.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#54
Given his mobility...you might have something there. Hell, he might be ridiculous in the CFL.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#55
Doug Flutie was meh in the NFL but he's considered to be the greatest CFL quarterback ever. Damon Allen (in case you were eondering, yes, Marcus is his brother), despite being a quarterback, is the third all time leading rusher being 80 yards shy of 12,000 and in 91 Tracy Ham was 3 yards short of his third consecutive 1000 rushing yard season so Kaep is gonna have to be quick if he wants to live up to that. Although the Cats own the CFL rights to Kaep, Manziel, and RGIII so he might be stuck on the worst team in the league.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#56
Flutie was only "meh" in that he spent most of his good years in the CFL, and most of his NFL career on teams that didn't know how to use him.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#57
Uhh guys, can we get back on track?  If you want to talk about the CFL and NFL, do it in the pit.  


I don't see how this thread is still open.  How long does is take to become a shredder?  There's really no answer to that.  You just have to practice until you get to where you want to be.  The amount of time can vary greatly from one person to another.  
Quote by Geldin
Junior's usually at least a little terse, but he knows his stuff. I've always read his posts in a grouchy grandfather voice, a grouchy grandfather with a huge stiffy for alternate picking.
Besides that, he's right this time. As usual.
#58
And for some, the answer is "you will never be a shredder".
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#59
Junior#1 eh, it amused me for a while.  Now it's properly off the deep end I am going to put everyone out of its misery.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
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