Xinlitik
UG Board King
Join date: Jul 2004
940 IQ
#1
Hey, I'm trying to learn some theory and I've got a few questions.

I know some of the formulas for finding chords etc of the major scale of a key, but I can't figure out the rest.

I know:

Chords
Major = 1 3 5
Minor = 1 3b 5
Dom 7th = 1 3 5 7b
Maj 7th = 1 3 5 7
Min 7th = 1 3b 5 7b

Scales
Blues = 1 3b 4 4# 5 7b 8
Min Pent = 1 3b 4 5 7b 8
Maj Pent = 1 2 3 5 6 8
Harmonic Minor = minor w/ sharpened 7

Soo, what else is there? This may be asking a question too big to answer, heh. I'm rather ignorant about theory, so I don't know if it is or not.

Also, what does stuff like sus mean? I.E. Gsus9

Thanks
Originally Posted by Corwinoid
Metal doesn't hold hands, it gets head in the van before the show. Seriously.


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Last edited by Xinlitik at Apr 12, 2005,
redwing_suck
Official UG "Do It" Ref
Join date: Apr 2002
4,054 IQ
#2
harmonic minor has a whole new set of modes... locrian nat. 6, ionian augmented, dorian #4, phrygian dominant, lydian #2, altered dim., and melodic minor alos has a new set of modes... dorian b2, lydian augmented, lydian dominant, mixolydian b6, locrian nat. 2, altered dom....

you know all the intervals of the basic 7 modes?

search for this. the question(s) has been answered many a time.
Looking for my India/Django.
SilentDeftone
UG God
Join date: Jul 2003
1,733 IQ
#3
Modes
First of all, a mode is a way of playing a scale. There are 7 basic modes, all based on the major scale. If you don't know the major scale, learn it ASAP. The intervals are W W H W W W H.

Anyways, since there are 7 notes in the major scale, you can have 7 different root notes (or starting points) and still be in the same key. For the purpose of this lesson I'll be using the key of C, because it has no flats and no sharps, and is one of the most common keys.

First of all, start thinking of notes as scale degrees:

  Note: C D E F G A B C
Degree: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1


The names of the modes, in order, are Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, and Locrian, and they start on their respective scale degrees.

Starting on the first degree, you get 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1, which is Ionian. Also the major scale.

Starting on the second degree, your notes are D E F G A B C D. This is the Dorian mode. Its formula is 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 1. Here's why:


 Degrees: 1 2 3  4 5 6 7  1
 D scale: D E F# G A B C# D

D Dorian: D E F  G A B C  D
 Degrees: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 1


You should be able to see how the F# was flatted down to F natural and C# down to C natural. That is how each mode's formula is found.

The third mode is Phrygian, its formula is 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1. In the key of C, the notes would be E F G A B C D E = E Phrygian.

The fourth is Lydian. Formula is 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 1.

5th is Mixolydian, 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 1.

6th is Aeolian, or the natural minor scale. 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1.

7th is Locrian, which is a half diminished scale. 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 1.

Therefore, the 7 modes in the key of C are:
C Ionian
D Dorian
E Phrygian
F Lydian
G Mixolydian
A Aeolian
B Locrian

Sus means suspended. There are 3 main types of sus chords.
sus2 = 1 2 5
sus4 = 1 4 5
7sus4 OR sus = 1 4 5 b7

I'd say sus9 implies tones 1 4 5 b7 9.

-SD
Junkstuff1
Long Fingers Alex
Join date: Oct 2002
10 IQ
#4
Just one thing I'll add:

Major pentatonic goes 1 2 3 5 6 8, not 1 3 4 5 7 8.
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Xinlitik
UG Board King
Join date: Jul 2004
940 IQ
#5
Thanks junk, fixed it.

SD:
So the formula for each mode in C is based on the major scale of the designated note?

E major would be

E F# G# A B C# D# E

Since E is the third degree of the C Major scale, it is Phyrgian with the formula 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1.

So,

E F G A B C D E, which is what you said.

Soooo, I'm guessing it's based off the major scale of each note.

Anyway, could you please let me know if I'm right doing the following?

Modes of B

Major scale:
B C# D# E F# G# A# B

Ionian:
B C# D# E F# G# A# B

Dorian:
C# D# E F# G# A# B C#

Phrygian:
D# E F# G# A# B C# D#

Lydian:
E F# G# A# B C# D# E

Mixolydian:
F# G# A# B C# D# E F#

Aeolian:
G# A# B C# D# E F# G#

Locrian:
A# B C# D# E F# G# A#

I hope I understood that lol.


Thanks a bunch redwing and SD.
Originally Posted by Corwinoid
Metal doesn't hold hands, it gets head in the van before the show. Seriously.


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Captain Colon
Banned
Join date: Mar 2004
10 IQ
#6
One of my favorites is full diminished (I think that's the name) - 1 b3 b5 bb7
SilentDeftone
UG God
Join date: Jul 2003
1,733 IQ
#7
Yes, it's based of the root's major scale, I'll add that in, thanks.

You should have noticed that all the modes of one major scale have the same notes Those modes of B are correct.

-SD
Xinlitik
UG Board King
Join date: Jul 2004
940 IQ
#8
Ya. After the second I just CnP'd in a different order after the pattern seemed to work out well.

Thanks a bunch.

One of my favorites is full diminished (I think that's the name) - 1 b3 b5 bb7


That would be a chord, right?
Originally Posted by Corwinoid
Metal doesn't hold hands, it gets head in the van before the show. Seriously.


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viciodk
Rock 'n' Roll
Join date: Aug 2004
13 IQ
#10
Originally posted by SilentDeftone
Sus means suspended. There are 3 main types of sus chords.
sus2 = 1 2 5
sus4 = 1 4 5
7sus4 OR sus = 1 4 5 b7

I'd say sus9 implies tones 1 4 5 b7 9.

Or maybe sus9 is the same as sus2, where the 2 is in the octave above the root, i.e. sus9 = 1 5 9?

Someone wrote this in another thread on UG (can't remember who).

This has confused me for some time. So.. Does sus9 have the formula 1 4 5 b7 9 or 1 5 9?

EDIT: And what about 9sus? I guess the formula in this case would be 1 4 5 b7 9. This is what you (SilentDeftone) called a sus9 chord... sus9 = 9sus?
Last edited by viciodk at Apr 12, 2005,
SilentDeftone
UG God
Join date: Jul 2003
1,733 IQ
#11
Well, based on Jazz Theory by Mark Levine?

A _susb9 contains the tones 1 4 5 b7 b9 (characteristic of Phrygian, blah blah etc.). Using that info, I jumped to the conclusion that _sus9 would be 1 4 5 b7 9. I think if they meant 1 2 5 they'd put sus2.

-SD
viciodk
Rock 'n' Roll
Join date: Aug 2004
13 IQ
#12
^ I've got that book as well..

I think the b9 is just an alteration to the chord.
Last edited by viciodk at Apr 12, 2005,