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#1
Ok, there are 2 main issues here in R&R at the moment.

1) Threads Getting Little/No Replies

Now... if you're one of these people DO THIS:

  • Go to someone else's thread (preferably someone else in your situation of having little replies)
  • GIVE THEM A CRITIQUE!! Listen to their song, pick out areas they were good, areas they can improve. Make it detailed if you want a good crit back... "it was good" is NOT a critique and has little worth. It's not hard to give a bit of detailed feedback as you listen... anything from tonal aspects to general melody, solos, vocals etc. Say HOW they can improve too.
  • THEN provide a link to your song thread for a "return of critique". It's about giving in order to receive... a simple but effective concept. Don't expect crit if you don't give any... it's not fair and it's not right. [/list=a]

    Be a part of the community and help others and they will help you in return!


    2) Bumping of Threads

    "Bumping" is posting in your own thread in order to send it back to the top of the forum. This is a BIG NO-NO. NEVER bump your thread unless someone has a) Asked you a question or b) you want to debate a comment or have something of merit to add.

    This means NO:
  • "Thank you" posts - Yes it's courteous, but it's not fair on other people who do not do the same. If you want to thank them properly, critique one of their songs (especially if someone has provided a link). This is the best thanks you can give. Or PM them! Just do NOT bump your thread.
  • Blatant Bumps - Your "anymore comments?" type posts... this is spam and against the rules set down in the FAQ. You want more crits? CRIT SOMEONE ELSE!
  • An eye for an eye leaves everyone a pirate.
    Last edited by LazyGuitar at May 11, 2005,
    #3
    Btw, i'm leaving this open for a lil' bit just to get comments/opinions/suggestions and the like from you guys
    An eye for an eye leaves everyone a pirate.
    #4
    well, would saying "thank you" but also asking another user another question be ok, or would the person just pm them?
    #5
    hey what do u mean by bumping ur thread....is it like umm posting again in ur own thread or starting a new thread to thank everyone....sorry i never really payed attention to the lingo and stuff in here so yea if i sound like an idiot its cause i am.
    Kommandant of the "I believe in anarchy, it just wouldnt work in our current society" club, PM Capsfan17 to join
    #6
    ^ Bumping is posting in your own thread... yeah, making a new thread is obviously not allowed lol, but bumping is posting in your own thread in order to send it back to the top of the forum.

    priest.fan - As I said, if it's something worthwhile and relevant... e.g. defending your work, or if you honestly don't understand what someone means etc then fair enough... and you can say thanks in there. But if it's just a "thanks, anymore?" comment, then go crit and send a PM

    EDIT:
    Maybe a naughty & nice list could be made... similar to that of "who to listen to" in Musician Talk? List those that never crit others, and those that always do... in addition to the crit exchange system of course. I dunno, probably wouldn't work with the amount of people that come through R&R on a casual basis... just throwing ideas around.
    An eye for an eye leaves everyone a pirate.
    Last edited by LazyGuitar at May 10, 2005,
    #7
    great idea, the whole crit mine i will crit yours, with link etc could work very well, and after a while people dont need to leave links and stuff.
    this is very good for the community.

    and i think a 'who to, and who not to, listen to thread will be not neccesary, you just get a black list, and the people that are on the good list will being noticed automaticly without that list i think.

    dunno how it works in the musiciann talk forum tough
    #8
    these are good rules i reackon.. and as far as the naughty and nice list go, i'd have to say yeah.. too many people that come in casually and besides.. the list for naughty people would be too long... hehe... anyhow this is just about wha i do anyways.. i come into the forum... start from the bottom and look for people with 0 replies...and work my way to the top.. freepower has something the sort worked out too.. so yah.. but ..a few more popel doing it would help as well..
    #9
    ^ If you're posting in people's threads that have 0 replies, especially newbies, link them to this thread saying if they want more replies then have a read of it. That's what i've been doing today... as well as closing a couple of blatant bumpers (which I hate doing in this forum).

    It's quite simple though... you want your thread bumped, you crit someone else so they crit you.
    An eye for an eye leaves everyone a pirate.
    #11
    Yeah, it's much appreciated by many i'm sure KoF

    As for naughty/nice list, no, it wasn't a good idea... but I was just throwing them around
    An eye for an eye leaves everyone a pirate.
    #12
    aww cmon freepower.. your do the rounds too.. i dont deserve it any more that you do.. and i'm liking the link to this thread idea.. i'm just about to try it out... and lazy don't close the particular thread just yet.. you'll see what i mean..
    #13
    Thanks man, but i still think you do the most!

    I was just searching for a bump a while ago (what? i feel proud of my most recent work and the noobs here dont know me!) and i discovered a talented guy called fig, with 0 crits. Sad that talented noobs are ignored in such a way, i think incaboy suffered the same thing, i checked out his thread, and really liked his music.

    There are a lot of people just post a link and ask for comments though, it can be offputting when theres just a line of MSN-style talk and then a link. Perhaps a thread on advice for posters? Wait, this one is!

    Perhaps you could edit these onto the first post after a while -

    Rule 1) If you're new, first impressions will be the only impressions if you write a line of bad spelling and stick a link on it - give people a song description, short story behind it, something... Let them know WHY they want to listen to your song, if you cant find a reason, then thats probably a sign you arent putting out very good material. In short, present your work well.
    This includes :
    a) Good thread title - genre, type of song (solo, full band, jam?)
    b) Spelling and grammar - no1 wnts 2 listen to a mroon hoo cnt spell.
    c) Short description in the thread


    Finally, if you arent known, get known, put out good music, give good intelligent crits, and you become known as a good player whos an intelligent person and a nice guy. Whether you are or not , that'll lead to more listens, and more crits!
    #14
    ^ That's all in the FAQ (which took me an age)... i'm not going to reproduce the entire FAQ cos people are too lazy to read it. If they don't follow the FAQ guidelines and the tips in this thread already, and don't get replies, then I don't have much sympathy for them.

    You point out "fig" right? Yes, he hasn't posted much, but he's been around these forums long enough... he's posted 2 songs today, but I don't remember seeing any crits he's posted. Yes, he may be talented and ignored, but if it's crit for crit then at the moment he's on level terms... 0 We can't do anymore for people like that than encourage them to join in. This isn't about making sure everyone gets crits, it's about making sure everyone gets a FAIR share of crits. If someone gives none (knowing the system - as I said before, link them to this thread), I don't care if they get none personally.

    Incaboy on the other hand was going around giving crits, but got a few back and may get more when people read his crits.
    An eye for an eye leaves everyone a pirate.
    Last edited by LazyGuitar at May 12, 2005,
    #16
    ^ If it's worthless, report it. If it has point then don't.
    An eye for an eye leaves everyone a pirate.
    #17
    I'm starting to notice more people blatantly bumping their threads now that this thread is up.. talk about crazy.... you must be getting mighty furstrated lazyguitar..
    #18
    Not really, I just close them. They're the ones that should be getting frustrated.
    An eye for an eye leaves everyone a pirate.
    #19
    my only problem with it is that sometimes people are on slower computers, or maybe a public computer so they can't listen to other songs, as this is the case with me about half the time, so they might not be able to crit everyone's that they'd like to
    No Recent Activity
    #20
    That's still no excuse for bumping your thread.
    An eye for an eye leaves everyone a pirate.
    #21
    Ah, that guy was just feeling a bit crazy, i think. I have a funny feeling we just annoyed the hell out of him and he commited thread suicide by bump.

    On another note, what do we do if we see "That was great - heres mine! *LINK*!"

    Is it to be reported, or just told that hes a douche?
    #22
    please dont report for silly things like that, ok its not within the rules but its not so serious it needs emails sending to the three of us immediately to deal with. if you see someone persistently doing it id rather you pm me, outside of that we'll just deal with it as and when we come across it.
    #24
    hooo boy.... things are getting heating with this whole topic.. caliente..... ssssssss.... lol anyway.. windjammer's speil about double posters is the truth.. (well as far as cheeseshredder goes, dont remember reading thejoners one) that cheesegrater fellow really wasn't being very accepting of others criticism... his loss..
    #25
    so u arent allowed to post in ur own thread after u start it?

    what if its a question about what someone said, or something about the track and stuff
    Originally posted by Crossover00
    I have ADD, but I think I made a choice a long time ago not to pay attention.
    Member of Remember Mitch Hedberg
    #26
    Read the rules before questioning them.

    NEVER bump your thread unless someone has a) Asked you a question or b) you want to debate a comment or have something of merit to add.
    #31
    hey i am with tomslespaul i was wondering why these forums are so strict about threads to??

    i have something to add though, what if your thread is practically at the bottom, like on page 7 or something along those lines?

    also don't know if this would be a good idea, suppose you could go crit one or two peoples songs, bump your thread and leave a link to where you critted their songs, that seems pretty fair to me...
    Originally posted by Beavis2112
    IIf I was a kid wanting to learn to play guitar and my Mom bought me that, I'd be so pissed I think I'd take up banjo.
    #32
    All good ideas. I have a problem though of alot of asses not returning the favor of a crit. Also I love it when I post something it get 30 hits and no replies as well as looking at stats on my sight for hits and notice 2 of those people actually listened. Too bad you couldnt find out who comes in, just reads, and leaves. Why even come in if you not going to listen?
    Quote by Double Basser
    What on earth is SRV?
    #33
    i like this forum alot. i feel like ive met people.but im still not sure if i understand the rules 100%. DSL is not offered to me for another month, so i try to listen as much as i can but dont end up criting as much sas id like. but i DO post around advice and any helpful suggestions when i can, is this a "black list" act? would you consider it as worthy of return crit'ing as a crit? in my own threads, i get a complimentary crit...i reply with a thank you then add a comment relative to the initial compliment, is this bumping? i dont want to take advantage of the forum and its system, i truly enjoy it and spend tons of time here,but is'nt a forum supposed to be where you go to get your music heard?
    #34
    ^ You don't have to critique other people's stuff at all. But it's a good way to get people to crit yours. At the bottom of your crit, leave a link and ask for a favor returned. I always crit people who crit me. You shouldn't just post "thank you" or "anymore comments?" People used to do that constantly and it was annoying and that's why the new rule was put in place. You can feel free to address something that was brought up in someone's crit of your song, respond to questions, ask someone to elaborate on something they said, etc. But bumping for the sole reason of bringing the thread back to the top isn't cool. I don't think you're doing anything that will get you warned, you seem mindful of the rules.


    Anyway...


    Why not, if someone is a bumper instead of PMing mods or reporting, it could just be posted in this thread? Unless people don't like the idea of doing that publicly. I just thought it would be convenient for mods and posters alike.


    Can I also add something? I think Guns For Hire is a great idea that isn't being used to it's potential. The system now has songwriters asking people to work with them. That seems invasive and backwards. I think there should be a new system where someone posts what is essentially a classified ad...

    "I'm working on a new song. It's an indie-type song. I'm looking for someone to do vocals. Here's a link to my music page and you can hear the song so far. PM me if you're interested in collaborating."

    This way, I think a lot more people will be hooking up. I don't want to pick someone from that long list, especially when they might not even be interested or like my music, etc. If people have musicians contacting them because of their "ad," then they both obviously are interested. I made a post for my song Glimmer and got a few people coming forward, offering to do a solo. Whatd'ya say?!

    (I hope the mods read this...)
    A conservative is a man who believes that nothing should be done for the first time. --Alfred E. Wiggam
    Last edited by ghettohippygrrl at Oct 27, 2005,
    #35
    Quote by ghettohippygrrl

    Why not, if someone is a bumper instead of PMing mods or reporting, it could just be posted in this thread? Unless people don't like the idea of doing that publicly. I just thought it would be convenient for mods and posters alike.


    Well I still think reporting is easier... 1) I get an email, and 2) I can deal with it without the whole public blacklisting... I don't really want anyone on some kind of permanent blacklist, since they may do it once, then become a good critter on realising their mistake.

    Tbh, i've seen little blatant bumping recently, but there are still the odd cases. Just report them.

    Quote by ghettohippygrrl
    Can I also add something? I think Guns For Hire is a great idea that isn't being used to it's potential. The system now has songwriters asking people to work with them. That seems invasive and backwards. I think there should be a new system where someone posts what is essentially a classified ad...

    "I'm working on a new song. It's an indie-type song. I'm looking for someone to do vocals. Here's a link to my music page and you can hear the song so far. PM me if you're interested in collaborating."

    This way, I think a lot more people will be hooking up. I don't want to pick someone from that long list, especially when they might not even be interested or like my music, etc. If people have musicians contacting them because of their "ad," then they both obviously are interested. I made a post for my song Glimmer and got a few people coming forward, offering to do a solo. Whatd'ya say?!


    I'm in agreement tbh. The Guns for Hire thing is pretty old too, so many of the original posters have probably moved on anyway. A "project based" classified type ad would probably be a more beneficial thread to have.
    An eye for an eye leaves everyone a pirate.
    #36
    Quick question here: Where does it say in here that you're only allowed to post 2 songs a week? I think it was two days ago now that I posted up a long and well thought out review of 5 or 6 of a guys songs that he had posted. I then checked back yesterday when I saw that the thread was locked and noticed that my whole review (which I had spent a good chunk of time on) had been edited out and replaced with a warning to either me or the threadstarter or both of us.

    I guess what I don't understand is why it was such a terrible thing for this guy to be able to actually see my reviews that I spent all that time on, and why it was necessary to edit my post to make it look like I was the one warning the guy instead of one of the moderators here just making another post and locking the thread. I wrote the reviews so the guy could read them and benefit from hearing the opinion of an outsider.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that I am less than pleased with the way the situation was handled (which probably doesn't really matter to anyone, which I understand and accept) and I think that if you're going to lock a thread and delete a post for breaking the rules, the rules in question should actually be written down somewhere.
    #37
    Quote by big crouton
    Quick question here: Where does it say in here that you're only allowed to post 2 songs a week? I think it was two days ago now that I posted up a long and well thought out review of 5 or 6 of a guys songs that he had posted. I then checked back yesterday when I saw that the thread was locked and noticed that my whole review (which I had spent a good chunk of time on) had been edited out and replaced with a warning to either me or the threadstarter or both of us.

    I guess what I don't understand is why it was such a terrible thing for this guy to be able to actually see my reviews that I spent all that time on, and why it was necessary to edit my post to make it look like I was the one warning the guy instead of one of the moderators here just making another post and locking the thread. I wrote the reviews so the guy could read them and benefit from hearing the opinion of an outsider.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that I am less than pleased with the way the situation was handled (which probably doesn't really matter to anyone, which I understand and accept) and I think that if you're going to lock a thread and delete a post for breaking the rules, the rules in question should actually be written down somewhere.


    They are and you cant see them???

    Look at the announcement at the very top of this forum. They even have direct links to each and every specific rule.

    Its a shame that you wrote such an inspiring review of that person's songs, but the rules are there for all to read. If someone does not follow the rules, then why should they benefit by someone else's critique of their music. Perhaps the edit of your post makes a little more sense to you now. If it doesn't... oh well... next time you'll know better.
    #38
    Well, I officially declare myself an idiot for having missed the rules at the top. I guess I just though it was the same anouncement that's up elsewhere about 'Ultimate Guitar will stay'. Well, that certainly clears that up.

    And I did understand exactly why they edited out my post, but the thing that pisses me off about that is that I spent well over half an hour writing that in hopes that this guy would get to read it and see things he can work on, but that time was officially wasted when the mods edited my post.

    It's not that I don't understand why they edited it, but I just don't believe that they should've. I think there's other ways it could've been handled that would've let this guy and others know that you're not supposed to post more than two songs a week, but that wouldn't have wasted the time and thought I put into that post.

    However, I realize that there's nothing I can do to change that now, and I'll just make sure that I don't make the same mistake again. There's no sense arguing about this further, so I won't. Sorry if I have come across as whiny here. I just felt a bit ripped off.

    That's all I'll say on the matter.
    #39
    Quote by big crouton
    And I did understand exactly why they edited out my post, but the thing that pisses me off about that is that I spent well over half an hour writing that in hopes that this guy would get to read it and see things he can work on, but that time was officially wasted when the mods edited my post.

    It's not that I don't understand why they edited it, but I just don't believe that they should've. I think there's other ways it could've been handled that would've let this guy and others know that you're not supposed to post more than two songs a week, but that wouldn't have wasted the time and thought I put into that post.


    I'm sorry you feel that way, but the rules are in place for a reason. The post you wrote could have, very easily, been deleted. Would that change any of your feelings about it? I wouldn't think so.

    The people who break the rules are the ones who have to "suffer the consequences". One of the consequences are that any and all replies are either deleted or edited so they get no benefit from anyone or anything. If they were to benefit from your outpouring of knowledge, then why have the rules in the first place?

    So... let's say we do away with the rules. Then you'll have prolific writers crowding out the once a week or once a month writer. Their songs will be on the first page while the people with less free time will have their song(s) pushed back to page 2 or 3 of the forum... practically buried by someone else who has nothing but all the time in the world to write and record.

    The way things are set up now allows a bit of fair play (and "air play") to the very people who don't have the time to devote to writing a hundred songs a week.

    OMG... the system works!
    #40
    eek, i should probably stop saying "good lyrics" and actually trying to critique.. i always feel like an asshole when i do for some reason.
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