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#41
Quote by scheck006
I really don't give a ****. under your reasoning, wrong is ok with me

Wow, ignorance really is bliss.

What a stubborn, stubborn kid. No one really gives a shit how you pick, in fact, all we're trying to do is help you get better.

But hey, limit yourself. I honestly couldn't care less. It's just less competition for me in the future.
#42
if I'm as limited as morse, petrucci and gilbert. then by all means. **** me
#43
El Gilberto doesnt anchor. He may have his right hand touching the bridge, and he may palm mute - but he doesnt have a reflexive attachment to the guitar.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1244883300064624710&q=paul+gilbert&pl=true

Spot the anchoring!


But seriously, y'may have noticed im not too big into the anchoring business. Why do you anchor?
#44
Seeing as I don't shred much I can't see the nessecity in not anchoring.

However, that said, I'll anchor a lot while I'm soloing, but if I need to play a reasonably fast lick I just kind of naturally de-anchor to play it. Out of interest, is this ok, or should I just try not to anchor even when I'm playing slow too?
#45
Quote by Zamboni
Wow, ignorance really is bliss.

What a stubborn, stubborn kid. No one really gives a shit how you pick, in fact, all we're trying to do is help you get better.

But hey, limit yourself. I honestly couldn't care less. It's just less competition for me in the future.


Trying to help people get better? By shoving your own way of doing things on them and saying they're wrong for not doing it YOUR way?
haha you must of been reffering to yourself saying ignorance is bliss.


I listen to so n so therefore i am The OMEGA
#46
Quote by SomeEvilDude
Seeing as I don't shred much I can't see the nessecity in not anchoring.

However, that said, I'll anchor a lot while I'm soloing, but if I need to play a reasonably fast lick I just kind of naturally de-anchor to play it. Out of interest, is this ok, or should I just try not to anchor even when I'm playing slow too?


Well, if you can do both, then its really your choice. Most importantly, you can try it out for yourself and decide. It seems that you understand intuitively that less tension = faster, ie, you're releasing more and more extraneous stuff when you need to play faster, not tensing up and making things harder.
#47
Quote by Freepower
El Gilberto doesnt anchor. He may have his right hand touching the bridge, and he may palm mute - but he doesnt have a reflexive attachment to the guitar.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1244883300064624710&q=paul+gilbert&pl=true

Spot the anchoring!


But seriously, y'may have noticed im not too big into the anchoring business. Why do you anchor?


he has his right hand touching the guitar but he doesnt' anchor?
#48
^ yup. He's palm muting, but he isnt anchored in anyway - that pressure is a concious effort to change the tone of his picking. Nice. Notice that it's as loose as he can get it. It doesnt have any bother coming off the guitar. Watch his string skip - floats above the strings, then comes down when he's done to mute noise. Good technique.

Thats not anchoring.
#49
haha so anchoring would be...what? pushing down on the bridge hard enough to make an imprint in your skin? Paul gilbert is anchoring, get used to it
#50
^ no, picking around a fixed point where your hand is attached to the guitar. Theres a slight difference between that and palm muting, i suggest you try it. I can pick from a fixed point on the guitar, i can pick and almost float but brush the strings, and i can chug away, but i dont anchor to anything - i choose to put my hand down.

This is slightly closer to what would be considered anchoring. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8342857222021819037&q=micheal+angelo+batio&pl=true

I know plenty of people that simply attach their wrists to their guitar whether or not they're muting. That, i see as anchoring. Im a bit of a purist. Any unneccessarily physical crutches in the form of a fixed point reference - i see that as anchoring.
#51
its impossible to keep your wrist in a fixed point. you could not reach all of the strings. he is moving his wrist a bunch.

either way. you can't possibly think his picking is lacking.
#52
Quote by scheck006
its impossible to keep your wrist in a fixed point. you could not reach all of the strings. he is moving his wrist a bunch.


Exactly. But he's anchoring his FINGERS.


Quote by scheck006
either way. you can't possibly think his picking is lacking.


It could be MORE-ing though. Are you saying picking cant get any better than that?
#53
no, I'm sure he practices to get better. why would he just revamp his entire technique when he's the best? that's seems like a complete mind**** to me.
#54
allow me to throw out a suggestion to why people anchor...well, i've noticed, after watching many players make the same mistake, that players who anchor normally usually pick more from the fingers then the wrist...why is that? well, since you're fingers are on the pickguard and your wrist is behind or on the bridge, your wrist is constricted to only minimal movement, making it nearly impossible to create enough force to pick a string...and how do they solve it? not by learning to play unanchored, but by picking with the fingers, which may be fine if you're into blues and such, but if you want to shred, you have to pick from the wrist, and to pick from the wrist, lose the anchor...the bottom line is, zamboni and freepower are absolutely right in that anchoring will limit your speed capabilities...when i stopped anchoring, i thought "holy s*** this is going to take forever and it won't even help me" because my accuracy was horrible without the anchor...but after long hours of practice i began to get the hang of it and before i knew it i could easily reach nearly twice the speed i could before with no tension whatsoever...my top speed with anchoring was achieved with the minimal amount of effort from my picking hand...seriously, if you learn to play unanchored, you will reap the benefits and become closer to achieving perfect technique, and perfect technique=speed
Quote by BigFatSandwich
it took you 15 consecutive hours of practice to realize that playing guitar makes you better at playing guitar. congratulations.


Quote by Sharp_as_steel
Axe_grinder pwns!!!!



Member #2 of the "Official UG Teabaggers' Cult". PM Slayer224 to join.
Last edited by axe_grinder247 at Apr 7, 2006,
#55
The Best?

I personally think PG is better, but theres people out there far better at picking than the both of them.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5607575793159275965&q=Shawn+lane&pl=true

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7356102452301060758&q=Rusty+Cooley&pl=true

And speaking of which, theres an unanchoring testimonial above me. There hasnt been anyone coming in and saying "Anchor, its great". Give it a go, seriously. At least you'll have a qualified view of both sides of the fence.
#56
Quote by scheck006
no, I'm sure he practices to get better. why would he just revamp his entire technique when he's the best? that's seems like a complete mind**** to me.


What?

You wouldn't want to be the best you can be? Even if you were "the best"?

Jesus, music isn't a goddamn competition.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#58
Woo, more testimonial. I'm not a shredder, so I don't know how useful this may be, but either way.

Well, since my post a couple of days ago, I took into account what Freepower said about preference and trying both ways, and so I decided to at least give it a shot.
Seeing as when I play fast licks I don't anchor I thought it would be best to start with some faster licks. After a few minutes, I slowed down to stuff that I'm more suited to playing, but made a conscious effort not to anchor my pinky to the body. As for playing without anchoring, I'm not sure if it's just because I'm a fast leaner or what, but the transition from anchoring to not anchoring was quite easy.
But anywho, my accuracy wasn't as great as when it was anchored, but after a good amount of practise yesterday and today, my accuracy increased a lot, and so did my speed for the rare time I just noodle around with quick licks.
That said, while not anchoring to increase speed isn't of much use to me, not anchoring leaves my pinky free, so things like messing around on the tremolo bar and volume swells (both of which I use frequently) are a lot easier and more effective then when I was anchoring.
#59
Quote by IThinkYou Smell
Trying to help people get better? By shoving your own way of doing things on them and saying they're wrong for not doing it YOUR way?

It's not my way, prick. It's a tried and tested way of increasing speed and accuracy while reducing tension and strain.

And like I said, I couldn't care less how inefficiently you play your guitar. I've been to enough shows and seen enough guitarists who think they're king shit of turd island, when they actually have no idea what the hell they're doing, to know how the average guitarist plays.

However, if you try and defend your laziness, I'm going to pick it apart and attempt to educate you, but most people are too blatantly prideful to take advice.
#60
I'm so sick of this. its not the accepted way. it IS your way. the least you could do is not stereotype everyone who anchors as the local hardcore guy who knows nothing about playing.

I don't anchor with my pinky. yes, that makes it harder for trem and volume knob stuff. I don't see how it can be such a big deal to have your wrist lightly touching the guitar. how else are you going to mute the bottom strings?
#61
i lol'd @ you, i like how you assume how i can play with out anything to back you up at all. So i shall assume that you can play Metallica badly and suck at the solos. I am Gsus just to let you know and Jesus RAWKS
#62
Quote by scheck006
I'm so sick of this. its not the accepted way. it IS your way.

Wrong. Do you think I invented free-hand playing?

Ask anybody who knows anything about guitar, like Freepower or Cas, or SD, and they will completely agree with me and my thoughts on the limitations of anchoring.

Quote by sheck006
I don't see how it can be such a big deal to have your wrist lightly touching the guitar.

And I'm trying to tell you! It's a big deal because, eventually, you are going to either a) hurt yourself from the tension you're putting on your wrist, and/or b) reach a point where you can no longer pick faster or more accurately. You'll hit a barrier and the ONLY WAY you'll be able to bypass that speed and accuracy limit is by ungluing your wrist, and preferably your whole arm, from your guitar body.

Quote by sheck006
how else are you going to mute the bottom strings?

Oh please, it's obvious that when you want to palm mute you're going to have to put your wrist on the bridge. I'm not arguing that, it's when it is not at all necessary to have your hand on your guitar, yet you do because of habit and laziness, that it is wrong.

Quote by IThinkYou Smell
i lol'd @ you, i like how you assume how i can play with out anything to back you up at all. So i shall assume that you can play Metallica badly and suck at the solos. I am Gsus just to let you know and Jesus RAWKS

Wow, I'd argue with you further, but I'm afraid my vocabulary would surpass that of the twelve-year-old's mind you portray yourself to have.
#63
haha are petty insult all you can dish out?
And what are you talking about? I act like a 7 year old not 12 you booger butt
#64
Quote by Zamboni
Wrong. Do you think I invented free-hand playing?



likewise, do you think I invented anchoring?


Quote by Zamboni
And I'm trying to tell you! It's a big deal because, eventually, you are going to either a) hurt yourself from the tension you're putting on your wrist, and/or b) reach a point where you can no longer pick faster or more accurately. You'll hit a barrier and the ONLY WAY you'll be able to bypass that speed and accuracy limit is by ungluing your wrist, and preferably your whole arm, from your guitar body.


can you pick more accurately than steve morse or john petrucci?


Quote by Zamboni
Ask anybody who knows anything about guitar, like Freepower or Cas, or SD, and they will completely agree with me and my thoughts on the limitations of anchoring.



anyone who knows anything about guitar? you seem to be discrediting john petrucci, steve morse, micheal angelo.

I'd listen to them any day over you, cas or SD. that's not a blow to you guys, it just goes to show that its all personal preference and that you shouldn't be forcing your way of doing things on everyone.

you guys want a testimonial? I listened to you guys a couple years ago, and stopped anchoring. just kinda sucked for a few months until I started taking guitar lessons, guess what the teacher said.

my picking has never been better since.

although that probably doesn't matter at all because I'm obviously highly biased towards being an idiot.
Last edited by scheck006 at Apr 8, 2006,
#65
Quote by scheck006
how else are you going to mute the bottom strings?


By working on your fretting hand. Once the movements of your fret hand fingers are controlled, you'll be amazed how little pick hand muting you actually need.

------

Anchoring works, and it can work very well (Petrucci and Morse are great examples). But non-anchoring works better (see Lane and Gilbert). Yeah there's the argument for both sides, but in my and in most guitarists experience, learning to pick without anchoring any part of your hand is 10000x better than anchoring.

If you've tried unanchoring and didn't prefer it, then stick with anchoring. It's really not that big of a deal, you can get very fast with either method. But it's much easier to hurt yourself with anchoring, and much easier to get fast quickly without anchoring.

But whatever, there's more stubborness in this thread than I've seen in a long time...
Quote by Resiliance
I ain't dissin' ya bro.

I be doin' some 'o dat sarcasm **** right thurr.
#66
You know what scheck? You just totally kowabungalike PWNED they're behinds dude we should totally make a band and become the slow picking shred gods of hades
#67
Quote by SnowballofDoom
By working on your fretting hand. Once the movements of your fret hand fingers are controlled, you'll be amazed how little pick hand muting you actually need.

------

Anchoring works, and it can work very well (Petrucci and Morse are great examples). But non-anchoring works better (see Lane and Gilbert). Yeah there's the argument for both sides, but in my and in most guitarists experience, learning to pick without anchoring any part of your hand is 10000x better than anchoring.

If you've tried unanchoring and didn't prefer it, then stick with anchoring. It's really not that big of a deal, you can get very fast with either method. But it's much easier to hurt yourself with anchoring, and much easier to get fast quickly without anchoring.

But whatever, there's more stubborness in this thread than I've seen in a long time...


Might i ask how not anchoring is the better way for not hurting yourself? I'd think that using more muscles to hold your arm over the guitar than relaxing it on the guitar is more damaging. Anchor and use them when you need them instead of tensing them the entire time, seriosukly im about ready to!
#68
I personally am all for anchoring in certain circumstances.

If I am muting I like to anchor at the bridge. I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say there is strain, inaccuracy, and loss of speed(in regards to down-picking). I downpick much faster anchored(I don't use my pinky, I rest my wrist on the bridge) than unanchored. I anchor when I play metal.

If I am alternate picking and/or soloing, I like to unanchor BARELY(I still don't use my pinky, I just barely ever so carefuly rest my wrist on the bridge... barely). I have found when I float alot my accuracy goes to the suck when I go fully floating, especially when doing wide or fast alternate picking.


I tried the pinky anchor thing for a while, but I found my hand to shakey to do it effectively.
#69
Quote by SnowballofDoom
If you've tried unanchoring and didn't prefer it, then stick with anchoring. It's really not that big of a deal, you can get very fast with either method.


that's all I'm really looking for


Quote by SnowballofDoom
Anchoring works, and it can work very well (Petrucci and Morse are great examples).
But non-anchoring works better (see Lane and Gilbert).




that's still pretty subjective.
Last edited by scheck006 at Apr 9, 2006,
#70
Quote by IThinkYou Smell
Might i ask how not anchoring is the better way for not hurting yourself? I'd think that using more muscles to hold your arm over the guitar than relaxing it on the guitar is more damaging.


It's really not. The big muscles in your arm and shoulder are built for that kind of movement, as long as it's relaxed. Your wrist isn't made for jumping all over the place on its own while picking incredibly fast.

When you anchor, you cut off a lot of the movement from your arm and shoulder, because you've mounted your wrist on the bridge. Now, if you want to string skip from the low to high E strings, your wrist is doing all that work. That's not so good.

Sure you can anchor lightly and still include your arm and shoulder and have no problems, I'm just saying most guitarists don't do that. They pick using only their wrists, which is going to lead to some damage later on.

I'm not addressing anyone here specifically, just giving my thoughts on the topic.
Quote by Resiliance
I ain't dissin' ya bro.

I be doin' some 'o dat sarcasm **** right thurr.
#71
Quote by SnowballofDoom
It'.
They pick using only their wrists, which is going to lead to some damage later on.



well steve morse has been doing it for 30 years.
#72
I got my guitar back from a guitar shop ( it wa getting a fret job ) so I asked the guy who did the repair ( says he's been playing for over 30 years ) about anchoring. He didn't know it by it's name but when I showed him what I ment ( I use my hand behind the bridge ) and he said that it's all preference.

Now if people like this, and others teachers aren't telling learners about the problems associated with anchoring then who's wrong?

Should we tell everyone that anchoring is bad and that they should only play it if they prefer it over unanchored ( which seems to defeat the purpose of discrediting the technique itself ) or should we just let people do as they like but warn them over creating too much extra tension?

Also - what's with the quote above me? How can picking from the wrist damage it at all? Repetitive Strain Injury?
#73
Quote by Resiliance
Jesus, music isn't a goddamn competition.





...



#74
Quote by scheck006
likewise, do you think I invented anchoring?

Nope, but I do think you are an extremely lazy person who keeps falling back on his "well STEVE MORSE DOES IT!!1!!!!11!one!!1!! so I HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY!!1!!!" argument, while further proving yourself to be more ignorant all the time.


can you pick more accurately than steve morse or john petrucci?

well steve morse has been doing it for 30 years.

Again, this is completely irrelavent. If I spent 30 years of my life learning how to hammer nails with my bare hands, I would eventually get extremely good at it. However, that doesn't mean it's the right way to hammer a nail.


anyone who knows anything about guitar? you seem to be discrediting john petrucci, steve morse, micheal angelo.

They are simply the product of practice. If they hadn't learned the bad habit of anchoring, they'd be tenfold better guitarists than they even are now.

Quote by IThinkYou Smell
I'd think that using more muscles to hold your arm over the guitar than relaxing it on the guitar is more damaging.

You've got to stop thinking.

It takes more muscles, and more muscle TENSION to glue your hand or fingers to the body/bridge of your guitar and rotate your wrist around a central point than it does to hang your hand above your guitar and let your wrist float.
#75
Roll's i's @ J00 thats so funny, but hey man, i'd love to hear some of your playing. With your non bad habit forming/"correct" picking style. i bet someone who plays hawthorne heights can play better than you. =O oh gasp
#76
ok well ive been anchoring my palm on the bridge for 3 years now , just today ive decided to try and play with no anchoring. Yes it sucked at first but after about 10hours of playing i can already see the difference , MUCH easier to pick fast and to string skip . i would definetly recommend un-anchoring if you do at the moment.
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#77
Quote by Zamboni
Nope, but I do think you are an extremely lazy person who keeps falling back on his "well STEVE MORSE DOES IT!!1!!!!11!one!!1!! so I HAVE TO DO IT THAT WAY!!1!!!" argument, while further proving yourself to be more ignorant all the time.


never did I say I had to do it the way steve morse does it. I'm saying its fine to do it that way. **** you for saying I'm lazy. that's the stupidest, non-backed up argument you've come up with.

steve morse is known for his picking technique. I can't believe how you are insulting him. definitely not the open minded, non-ignorant thing to do.

at least I've used real people as my examples.



Again, this is completely irrelavent. If I spent 30 years of my life learning how to hammer nails with my bare hands, I would eventually get extremely good at it. However, that doesn't mean it's the right way to hammer a nail.


I was replying to the statement of "its going to hurt you later"

I figured that someone who's been doing it for 30 years, and hasn't gotten hurt, would be of some value to my point that its not going to cause any wrist problems or damage.

of course hammering nails with your hands will actually cause pain, so I have no clue in how this relates to anchoring. I can see why you chose this example though, it's because your desperate to prove to me that your way of doing things is right, and even though you've said you could care less about the way I do things...you're still trying to make me look like an idiot.


They are simply the product of practice. If they hadn't learned the bad habit of anchoring, they'd be tenfold better guitarists than they even are now.


yea...tenfold better guitar players. I'm pretty sure that 10x better than petrucci is impossible. Is there any reasoning behind this statement? seeing as how you're saying I'm ignorant and all, I'm just wondering if there was anything you were basing this upon. other than the way you like to play guitar.

if they are the product of practice, then the only reason you have for not being as good as them, is laziness. In fact, it should be 10x easier for you to achieve their level. seeing as how you're not even close, I can only assume that you're 10x as lazy as them.


It takes more muscles, and more muscle TENSION to glue your hand or fingers to the body/bridge of your guitar and rotate your wrist around a central point than it does to hang your hand above your guitar and let your wrist float.


there's something that's called gravity. its really nice because your hand will stick to the guitar without having to press it! seeing as how the guitar is lower than your elbow of course.


have fun
Last edited by scheck006 at Apr 9, 2006,
#78
Quote by scheck006
well steve morse has been doing it for 30 years.


To be fair now, he does have carpal tunnel, thats not the best example to use. Think before you fact.


^ you and zamb seem to have your wires crossed a little. You're getting pissed off because he's "insulting" your favourite players - which he's not. He's getting pissed off because you seem to only use those players as reason for anchoring.

Not to mention that a few posts back we have discovered that you dont anchor, you only mute unwanted strings - which is slightly different to actually ANCHORING. Oui?

And as for Lane and gilbert being better than MAB and morse at alt picking -

I can quote you MAB on Lane -

"This man was a DEITY to me".

And watching Morse string skip compared to Gilbert string skip - which is where this kind of stuff becomes most apparent - is like watching a revolver and a machine gun. No competition, really. Not that any of the guys mentioned arent fantastic guitarists - and not that im saying nobody should ever touch the guitar strings with owt but a pick - but frankly, less effort and tension = better playing.

Thats accepted as far as classical, jazz, rock, shred...you name it. Anchoring which produces tension is a no-no. Watch romeo if you want to see how to anchor. On the other hand, it works for him because he preforms the gross movements with his wrist, and "picks" with his fingers.

And "I'm pretty sure that 10x better than petrucci is impossible?" - Ask petrucci! He'll say theres not much of a limit on playing, and if petrucci is your idea of perfect technique - not that he's not brilliant, if you're sensitive about it - then broaden your horizons!
#79
Quote by Freepower

Not to mention that a few posts back we have discovered that you dont anchor, you only mute unwanted strings - which is slightly different to actually ANCHORING. Oui?



I was under the impression that any part of your hand touching the guitar was anchoring. from this post.

Quote by Zamboni
.

Palm muting does require a rest on the bridge, but after the mute, you should completely separate your hand from the bridge.
#80
^ fair enough, he's even more purist than me. And yes, its perfectly possible to right hand mute like that. When i float that much my thumb lightly brushes only the string directly below the one im picking - and the ones above are left hand. Basically, after the mute, the hand raises.