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G.I.R.L
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Join date: Apr 2006
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#1
I recently went to a small show in a guy house and this Kathleen Hannah wannbe was there for God knows what reason spewing out this garbage about how this band were sexist (don't ask me why). And this led me to think about Riot Grrrl music and since it's generally considered an off-shoot of punk I thought I should put the thread here.

So, what do you think of Riot Grrrl? I personally think it's a bunch of girls complaining about men just because they seem to get a better deal. I'm a girl (not a feminist obviously, my name comes from the song by The Adicts) and this doesn't bother me enough to write crap songs whining about it.

So, opinions?

EDIT: Let me make this clear, I'm not saying that every single riot grrrl band is feminist. I'm talking about those bands that complain about sexism while being just as sexist. It annoys me how hypocritical they are.
Last edited by G.I.R.L at Apr 17, 2006,
RockThe40oz
Sucker-Punched By Christ
Join date: Dec 2004
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#2
www.myspace.com/thetwofunerals

I'm friends with the bassist... but the band annoys me.

I can enjoy the music somewhat at shows (mainly because I'm friends with them), but their whining about fabricated sexism in the local music scene.

It's all the fault of their vocalist.. since she writes lyrics, guitar and bass, she has pretty much full control over the band.

Oh well.
damn-right!
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Join date: Nov 2003
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#3
Quote by G.I.R.L
I recently went to a small show in a guy house and this Kathleen Hannah wannbe was there for God knows what reason spewing out this garbage about how this band were sexist (don't ask me why). And this led me to think about Riot Grrrl music and since it's generally considered an off-shoot of punk I thought I should put the thread here.

So, what do you think of Riot Grrrl? I personally think it's a bunch of girls complaining about men just because they seem to get a better deal. I'm a girl (not a feminist obviously, my name comes from the song by The Adicts) and this doesn't bother me enough to write crap songs whining about it.

So, opinions?


hehe my band was described as a riot grrl band.

Amusing since im the only female, i dont sing or write lyrics and our front man is a 6' stick insect of a homosexual...i guess they were joking.

Anyway, i dont think ive ever seen a riot grrrl band in my life but i dont think men get better deals anymore, i think there are just girls who want something or anything to whinge about. I can guarantee these same girls would whinge if a guy didnt open a door for them or didnt perform whatever old fashioned romantic gestures are still floating around in modern society.

Personally i think 96.999% of the population are wankers irrelevant or their respective genders, if i was going to whinge about anything it would be the state of the human race in general not just the state of a particular gender.
“I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your f*ckin' mouth.” RIP
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waterproofpie
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Join date: Dec 2003
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#4
Oh man, these threads KILL me.
You know...you don't have to be a feminist to like riot grrl bands. And contrary to popular belief, they don't all just complain about guys and stuff, or make bad music.

Listen to the Lunachicks, Seven Year Bitch, and Babes in Toyland for some starters. They don't whine about guys...at all. In fact, they're pretty fun. Yeah, they have a few sarcastic songs involving gender issues, but they don't focus on putting males down, they point out flaws in things women do, and things that they expect of eachother. Which is why when they play, they dress like drag queens (edit: Referring to the Lunachicks). The rest of their songs are just goofy and sing about really random topics.

I believe there was an article discussing this in MRR a couple months ago...knowing this forum only David caught it too, but one of the female writers for the magazine was talking about riot grrl movement and punk. She said it was a shame so many girls automatically write it off for fear of being a femi-nazi, and that if they take anything away from it, it should be to look out for other girls at shows and stuff. She also said this held more value 10-15 years ago, when there was more violence towards girls at shows.

But why do people complain so much about this genre? Punk has always had the aspect of pointing out flaws with society, so why not point out those with gender?
G.I.R.L
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#5
Quote by waterproofpie
Oh man, these threads KILL me.
You know...you don't have to be a feminist to like riot grrl bands. And contrary to popular belief, they don't all just complain about guys and stuff, or make bad music.

Listen to the Lunachicks, Seven Year Bitch, and Babes in Toyland for some starters. They don't whine about guys...at all. In fact, they're pretty fun. Yeah, they have a few sarcastic songs involving gender issues, but they don't focus on putting males down, they point out flaws in things women do, and things that are expected of them. Which is why when they play, they dress like drag queens. The rest of their songs are just goofy and sing about really random topics.

I believe there was an article discussing this in MRR a couple months ago...knowing this forum only David caught it too, but one of the female writers for the magazine was talking about riot grrl movement and punk. She said it was a shame so many girls automatically write it off for fear of being a femi-nazi, and that if they take anything away from it, it should be to look out for other girls at shows and stuff. She also said this held more value 10-15 years ago, when there was more violence towards girls at shows.

But why do people complain so much about this genre? Punk has always had the aspect of pointing out flaws with society, so why not point out those with gender?


Don't get me wrong, Babes In Toyland is one favourite bands and I'm not saying that every single riot grrrl band is feminist. I'm talking about those bands that complain about sexism while being just as sexist. It annoys me how hypocritical they are. Especially when the majority of both genders are bastards.

EDIT: Also, I do like 7 Year Bitch. My band covered You Smell Lonely.
Last edited by G.I.R.L at Apr 17, 2006,
waterproofpie
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#6
Oh alright, that's cool.
That's a pretty general statement, but I agree.
I just bum out when people rag on the whole sub genre because of something like that...because there are a lot of damn fine bands who sing about relevant topics.
johnnynemo
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#7
Feminism is a good thing; being a man-hater (or a misogynist woman-hater) is counter-productive.

The funny thing is that I was just talking with someone about this the other day and we agreed that there don't seem to be as many man-haters at punk shows as there were 15 years ago, when the whole riot grrl thing started up.

I always saw the original riot grrls more militant stance as a response to all the jock loser boys who went to shows and either groped or bashed girls.
Those guys were often beat down, but sometimes there was no one there to do anything about it and sometimes the boys would even rip girls T shirts off and do other stupid sexist crap.
You can read a very good account of this in the book "Sister Safety Pin".

I've seen Bratmobile, The Lunachicks, L7, Bikini Kill, 7 Year B*tch and a bunch of other bands and I didn't get a "femi-nazi" vibe, so much as I did a "Girl Power" vibe from the bands; although some of their fans definitely weren't very fond of men.

I see the same thing when I go to lesbian bars with some of my female friends.
Most of the younger girls are nice to me, and/or perhaps a little wary, but most of the older womyn look at me as though they want to set me on fire.
I just let it slide, because I'm not there to pick up girls and I don't really care what some middle aged womyn with a mullet thinks.
texas78621
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2005
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#8
I agree with Johnny about what feminism is about at its core.

Lately it seems like so many people define themselves not so much by who they are, and wish to become, but by who they hate. You know, as in I hate whites, I hate blacks, I hate Dems, I hate Republicans, I hate Jews, I can't stand Asians, gays, Latinos, Arabs, Israelis, and geez, on and on. It's especially bad at the Pit. Has anyone else noticed that? Maybe it's just loud-mouthed immaturity; I hope it's not something deeper.
Last edited by texas78621 at Apr 17, 2006,
whyvern
jet skis on the reg
Join date: Mar 2002
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#9
I think women should persue a more active role in the scene... especially here.

It really hurts me to watch all my 'punk' friend's girlfriends get treated like **** by them and then the only bands they dance around to are the non 'punk' bands (like mine and Christian James and the Coyotes)... the cirlce pits here are even really violent (I'm still hurting from one on saturday night). There's alot of things I think my scene could do better and including more women is on the top of the list... because it seems like a sausagefest at times... and all the yuppie chicks at my school are really boring to talk to.

As far as riot grrl goes, I think it's a difficult matter. If I were to make a Jewish pride band I'd be called a zionist (which I'm not) and of course a white pride band would be called a nazi band. But some how Riot Grrl is a bit more tolerable.... I don't know. The whole idea of 'womyn' is not very appealing to me and 'womyn only' is ****ing stupid.


I got into punk rock because anyone could and can do it.
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G.I.R.L
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#11
I'm not attacking feminism with this thread, I'm not attacking riot grrl music. I actually agree with some things feminist fight for (gender equallity ect.). I have friends who are feminist (some are indeed lesbians) and I used to listen the music and I agree with Johnny about the

Quote by johnnynemo
original riot grrls more militant stance as a response to all the jock loser boys who went to shows and either groped or bashed girls.
.
(In fact, I agree with most of his post.)

I just don't agree with some riot grrl music because it has a sense of "They can't be sexist to us, but we can be sexist to them". And considering both genders are as bad as each other, I don't think it's right. Then again I do agree with freedom of speech so I'm just as big as a hypocrite .
johnnynemo
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#12
Maybe it's time that people re-evaluated all the stupid "moshing" at shows.

As I've mentioned before, you used to be able to stand in the middle of a "circle pit" while punks skanked around you and be fine.
Then, the moshing came along and it was a giant stupid football skirmish at all the shows.

Since it was all started by jocks, and idiots like Sid, how about if we say "Okay 30 years of smashing each other up is enough....let's just pogo or whatever other dance you wanna do that doesn't involve hitting each other."
johnnynemo
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#13
Quote by G.I.R.L
I'm not attacking feminism with this thread, I'm not attacking riot grrl music. I actually agree with some things feminist fight for (gender equallity ect.). I have friends who are feminist (some are indeed lesbians) and I used to listen the music and I agree with Johnny about the

Quote by johnnynemo

I always saw the original riot grrls more militant stance as a response to all the jock loser boys who went to shows and either groped or bashed girls.



(In fact, I agree with most of his post.)

I just don't agree with some riot grrl music because it has a sense of "They can't be sexist to us, but we can be sexist to them". And considering both genders are as bad as each other, I don't think it's right. Then again I do agree with freedom of speech so I'm just as big as a hypocrite .


Well I hope people didn't take it as you attacking feminism.
I didn't see it that way and I thought you brought up some good points, which I echoed in my post.

I think that what are you saying is akin to this example of people getting carried away with their "crusades".

I knew a girl who went to Oberlin College.
She was harasssed by some radical womyn because she dared to wear make-up.
They gave her sh*t everyday and she finally transferred to another school.
So much for her right to decide how she looked, and how f*cked is that that her "sisters" were the ones giving her such a hard time based on her appearance ?

Some of these same radicals started a "Take Back The Night" thing after a girl was sexually assaulted.
Great idea, but again they went to extremes.
They started marching around stomping their feet and shouting slogans every night and going further and further away from campus, until one night, while they were out "taking back the night" miles away from campus, another girl was assaulted.

I think that some people, both men and women, care more about their "crusades" than they do about the people.
G.I.R.L
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#14
Quote by johnnynemo
Well I hope people didn't take it as you attacking feminism.
I didn't see it that way and I thought you brought up some good points, which I echoed in my post.

I know you didn't (I know everyone who has replied didn't) but it has to be said because there's always going to be some one who will say I did.

Quote by johnnynemo
I think that what are you saying is akin to this example of people getting carried away with their "crusades".


Exactly what I am saying.

Also, very sad about that girl you know. And the girl who was assaulted. At the core feminism is a good thing, but it's become more about proving a point rather than solving the problem.
texas78621
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#15
Quote by johnnynemo
Maybe it's time that people re-evaluated all the stupid "moshing" at shows.

As I've mentioned before, you used to be able to stand in the middle of a "circle pit" while punks skanked around you and be fine.
Then, the moshing came along and it was a giant stupid football skirmish at all the shows.

Since it was all started by jocks, and idiots like Sid, how about if we say "Okay 30 years of smashing each other up is enough....let's just pogo or whatever other dance you wanna do that doesn't involve hitting each other."


Vicious started the pogo, not slamdancing -- which was a lot of fun, actually. It's just when the scene got bigger and more aggressive that slamming got too dangerous -- at least it was for me, and probably other girls as well. But you could have given me twenty guys and Six Pack any day!

Okay, that can be misinterpreted...
whyvern
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#16
Quote by texas78621
I didn't know there even was a Jew in Alabama.



It don't get any easier... the drummer in my band is black... Everyone at our high school loves us

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pinheadslts75
BrainDamage
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#17
My school is dominated by preps and hipsters, a radical feminist here and there would be a nice change of pace.

The girls at shows are a lot better though.
Last edited by pinheadslts75 at Apr 17, 2006,
Nefro
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#18
Riot Grrl is my favorite genre of music.
johnnynemo
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#19
Quote by texas78621
Vicious started the pogo, not slamdancing -- which was a lot of fun, actually. It's just when the scene got bigger and more aggressive that slamming got too dangerous -- at least it was for me, and probably other girls as well. But you could have given me twenty guys and Six Pack any day!

Okay, that can be misinterpreted...


Technically, Sid invented both pogoing and slamdancing , since his pogoing was done in an effort to "knock down everyone in the Bromley Contingent" in his own words.

The Cali punks, so far as I know, are responsible for doing the whole "skanking in the circle pit" thang, although I think that the circle pit first occured at Doors shows in the late 60s, albeit minus the pogo or slamdance.
texas78621
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#20
Quote by johnnynemo
The Cali punks, so far as I know, are responsible for doing the whole "skanking in the circle pit" thang, although I think that the circle pit first occured at Doors shows in the late 60s, albeit minus the pogo or slamdance.


Or clothes...
johnnynemo
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#21
Hahahaha.
Yep.
A circle pit full of naked hippies.....one can only imagine how bad that smelled.

I figure that when I expire, I'll end up in one of 3 different hells.

1. Hippy Hell - where I have to listen to endless hours of the Grateful Dead, surrounded by smelly naked hippies, who force me to hug trees and talk about universal love.

2. Hillbilly Hell - where I have to listen to endless hours of Clay Aitken, surrounded by toothless inbreds, who force me to drive around in a pick-em-up truck and shoot and eat deer.

3. Hardcore Hell - where I have to listen to endless hours of Minor Threat, surrounded by jocks in hoodies, who force me to spinkick the invisible ninjas.
ss311
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#22
Well nemo, you're just paranoid
waterproofpie
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#23
Hahahahaha
Nemo's post reminds me of a Janeane Garofalo skit.
pinheadslts75
BrainDamage
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#25
Was this necessary?

Why do these old threads where I have to see how stupid I was 5 years ago keep popping up?
neidnarb11890
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#27
Quote by lookpizza
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girl power!
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haaan
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#28
LOL u guys halee wilims is a myspace wh0re preppy bitch
iwannabesedated
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#29
I'm going to actually address the topic and say I love Riot Grrrl bands. The man-haters were mostly the fans, the bands were pretty cool.

Bikini Kill was always my favorite, but Bratmobile, Seven Year Bitch, Heavens to Betsy, all great.
ibugppl
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#30
I sent talking about how terrible ALL men are sexist?
nashawa
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#31
Quote by ibugppl
I sent talking about how terrible ALL men are sexist?

Whoa, hold on there champ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_grammar
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Youztoobz
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lolmnt
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#33
I have seen talk about how all men are terrible. Sexist!
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Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

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lookpizza
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#34
I sent terrible sexist men to how to talk.
I'm an asshole.
ipuked
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#36
I love riot grrrl music, I really do. I'm not a feminist, because today's feminism is all about changing what people THINK about women, but as long as we have RIGHTS, it shouldn't matter what others think. But I love riot grrrl, for some reason.
sargasm
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#38
Where the **** did this come from?

Oh well. I'm a feminist. All you haters suck my balls.
neidnarb11890
so bored with the USA
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#39
I'd say I'm a feminist. I dunno if the people who write the rules on feminism would. 'Cuz I was passing out while they were passing them out. But I'm all about equality & not objectifying women. And I love grrrls who can rock & roll.

SPEAKING OF, who else can't wait for WILD FLAG's album? I'm so pumped. Carrie's my rock & roll hero.
lolmnt
Earth of the Butt
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#40
Quote by sargasm
Where the **** did this come from?

Oh well. I'm a feminist. All you haters suck my balls.
Your left one?
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown