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#1
If i were to get one of these guitars and then upgrade the pups wuld it be similar to one of the better gibson models....i play alot of zakk wylde stuph and i want a guitar similar to his....just wondering if this wuld be a decent deal for the money

and are these guitars that much different...wuld the 3500 be much better?

http://www.rondomusic.net/al-3000rootbeer.html

http://www.rondomusic.net/al3500prestblkch.html
"Music is moral law. It gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, a charm to sadness, and a gaiety and life to everything. It is the essence of order and leads to all that is good, true, and beautiful"
#2
If you're going to swap pickups anyway go with the 3000. I have one, swapped pickups, and it's absolutely a great guitar. Mine has an excellent finish, the neck and frets are very well done, and it sounds great.

If I had a bit more money and time I'd go the full nine and do pots, jack, and switch but it's unnecessary.
It's a fine line between clever and stupid.
#5
the AL-3500 has a 3/4 maple cap
The AL-3000 has a 1/16 maple veneer

You'll get a more Les Paul tone of the AL-3500, it be having one of dose damn nice maple caps which be brightening up da tone a bit. Its more similar to the Zakk Wylde epi, because of the maple cap... add some emg's to that, and your bound to get that nice tone out of it

But since the AL-3000 has no maple cap to brighten the tone, it will be more darker...
that plus some nice emg's and your bound to get a nice sound metal tone out of it...

Its all up to you... the al-3500 is a bit pricier than the al-3000...
#6
i think i want more of a metal sound...but which wuld be better for all around...i play alot of metal but i also play lots of other things from classic rock to blues to heavy metal..
"Music is moral law. It gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, a charm to sadness, and a gaiety and life to everything. It is the essence of order and leads to all that is good, true, and beautiful"
#7
If you have the cash, then the 3500 is the way to go. Not only is the maple top thicker, but it also has a much improved Gotoh bridge. It's worth the extra cash IMO for those 2.

But either will do metal equally well with new pickups. I have the all-mahogany AL-3000 and it sounds pretty good with its EMGs.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
#8
It's weird though... the Agile cost more than what I paid for my Epiphone Les Paul Classic Sunburst Flame Top brand new.
#9
Quote by Chazzy29
It's weird though... the Agile cost more than what I paid for my Epiphone Les Paul Classic Sunburst Flame Top brand new.


The 3500 is a damn fine guitar. It's a little more than an Epi Classic, but you get a while lot more guitar for your money too. The 3000 is cheaper than an Epi Classic and is also a much better guitar.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
#10
^^^ Can't argue that since I've never played an Agile. But I can not say there was much of a difference between a $3000 gibson vs. my $350 Epi. The electrons/hardware and the the AAA flame top were better on the gibson, those are the only things that I could find.

The pick-ups are a cheap upgrade and are the first change I make to any of my guitars. I'm a Duncan fan.

I personally wouldn't pay $500 for an Agile, I can buy Epi Classics all day long for $350 and those guitars (aside from the pups) are everything I could hope for in a guitar.
#11
Well I can tell a huge difference between Gibson and Epi in both tone and feel. However, I can't say that I agree that it's worth the $2000+ difference in price though. I'm even able to pick Gibson LPs apart from their sound (I'm very picky about Les Paul tone, and only very particular ones will do). I guess that comes with experience.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
#12
Yeah. I'm not able to tell a specific model number apart from Gibson vs another..... but I've only been playing for 16 (almost 17) years.

Of course I'm very picky on how my amp is adjusted, that's how I get the sound that I want.... not by paying more for a guitar that does the same thing as a $350 guitar does...

I feel very comfortable playing my Epi. In fact, as I've owned 100's of guitars through my life, maybe I just have the nitch for being able feel comfortable at playing any decent guitar?
#13
No, you can't make a 500 $guitar as good as a 2500$+ guitar simply by changing the pickups. The material is better with gibsons, with more attention to detail.

I've never played an agile, but most people seem to think its good for the price paid.
#14
Quote by Chazzy29
Yeah. I'm not able to tell a specific model number apart from Gibson vs another.....


Well, I can't tell you which is which as in which model it is. To me, there's little correlation between the different models and tone. However, give me 5 Les Pauls, and I can pretty easily distinguish and describe the difference in tone. And to me, very few models have 'that sound' that I look for in a Les Paul - regardless of the model. If that tone isn't there, I won't buy the guitar.

Quote by Chazzy29
but I've only been playing for 16 (almost 17) years.


Really? And you can't tell the difference in tone between a Gibson and an Epi?!?!? Man, that's a difference of night and day. They sound nothing alike.

But that aside, personal preference is personal preference. I prefer playing my $550 (after upgrades) Agile over my Gibson or my 2 custom shop guitars. It just feels better than my other guitars. In that respect, price has no bearing. It's just a great guitar to play. Yeah, I have better sounding guitars, but this is my all-around best guitar.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
Last edited by Crunchmeister at May 17, 2006,
#15
Quote by Chazzy29
I personally wouldn't pay $500 for an Agile, I can buy Epi Classics all day long for $350 and those guitars (aside from the pups) are everything I could hope for in a guitar.



...Aren't you the guy who's paying $300 for a China Les Paul?
#16
Quote by Danno13
...Aren't you the guy who's paying $300 for a China Les Paul?


No, I'm the guy trying to get China to send me a sample Gibson... If the quality is good enough, I may buy up a large quantity (set them up to play like a $3grand Gibson) and resale them for double what I pay.

I'm always in search of new business ideas. I'm currently working on other projects as we speak.

I've been preoccupied as I've just ordered two SX guitars from Rondomusic. I've owed and played 100's of guitars through my dedicated 16 years of passion at playing guitar.


Like I said, I wouldn't pay $500 for an Agile as Epi excels in every aspect at quality to fulfill my expectation and then some... and unlike Agile, Epi's have resale value.

Crunchmeister: for sh~ts and giggles, listen to the song "Die MF Die" by Dope and tell me what guitar he is playing. Thanks!
#17
Epis have a resale value? Unlike Agile? What are you smoking dude? Agiles go for above original price on Ebay.

Btw, selling counterfeit products is illegal.

American Stratocaster + Blues Junior

#18
Like I said, I can't tell what guitar someone is playing from the sound. And when the guitar is in a mix with other instruments and had a ****load of effects and post-processing, that's pretty much impossible for anyone.

And yeah. If you were to buy a bunch of these guitars and resell them, you'll then be violating trademark laws and opening yourself to lawsuit from Gibson. Why do you think that only the Chinese can get away with it? It's because they don't recognize anyone's copyright and trademark laws. And being in China, Gibson (or anyone else) can't touch these people.

And yeah. The really popular and rarer Agiles (like the original Ghost Explorer) actually sell for as much as double the original $199 they sold for. Some of the first AL-3000s with the original Gibson body shape and old headstock are selling for more than the $300 they originally sold for. But granted, these are exceptions, and not the rule.

And Epis have ne real resale value. Buy one today brand new, and sell it as used tomorrow, and you're already lost 25-50% of its value new.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
Last edited by Crunchmeister at May 17, 2006,
#19
Quote by Armored Artist
Epis have a resale value? Unlike Agile? What are you smoking dude? Agiles go for above original price on Ebay.

Btw, selling counterfeit products is illegal.



Please provide me a link to all three of your claims.

1). Epi's hold no value
2). Agile sell above original price.
3). Selling Gibson (copys) are illegal.

Thanks and I'll be waiting for the links to your claim!
#20
Selling copies of Gibson isn't illegal. Selling counterfeits with the Gibson brand on them is.

And I looked on ebay, and none of the Agiles in question are available right now. But keep looking. The come up from time to time.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
#21
Quote by guitarforever<3
No, you can't make a 500 $guitar as good as a 2500$+ guitar simply by changing the pickups. The material is better with gibsons, with more attention to detail.

I've never played an agile, but most people seem to think its good for the price paid.
True! And nobody will begin to imagine that my Agile 3000M sounds just as good as my Gibson CS; however, Agile has enough qualities that a capable musician will take a while to truly fully exploit. Besides, if you lose your Agile or damage it, you won't get the sick feeling or desire to maim somebody if your Gibson gets damaged or stolen.
#22
Quote by Ippon
True! And nobody will begin to imagine that my Agile 3000M sounds just as good as my Gibson CS; however, Agile has enough qualities that a capable musician will take a while to truly fully exploit. Besides, if you lose your Agile or damage it, you won't get the sick feeling or desire to maim somebody if your Gibson gets damaged or stolen.



Totally agreed. If I want the best tone possible, I'm going to pick up my Gibson, ESP, or Lado (depending on the sound I'm looking for). If I want to pratice, jam out or gig, then my Agile is the main guitar. It feels the best, has awesome action, sounds great, and if I put a large gouge in the finish or snap the neck off on stage, I can easily replace it with another identical one for under $400. If that were to occur to one of my expensive guitars, I would freak.

I mean, I accept that my guitars (as rare and expensive as 2 of them are) are players, and not collector's items. They will get get scratched and suffer wear and tear. It doesn't mean I don't care when they get scratched, but it doesn't freak me out like it would some people. Nonetheless, I do try to keep them in good condition. I have no such 'cares and worries' about my Agile. I do keep it in top condition, but wouldn't be overly concerned if anything were to happen to it.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
#23
Quote by Crunchmeister
I mean, I accept that my guitars (as rare and expensive as 2 of them are) are players, and not collector's items. They will get get scratched and suffer wear and tear. It doesn't mean I don't care when they get scratched, but it doesn't freak me out like it would some people. Nonetheless, I do try to keep them in good condition. I have no such 'cares and worries' about my Agile. I do keep it in top condition, but wouldn't be overly concerned if anything were to happen to it.

You consider them players now but the way I figure, once I have my own kids, I'm thinking my Gibsons and Fenders (even the MIJ Squier) will be colletors' items And when the binding on my 3000M peeled, I had less control than you because I freaked. Although I didn't feel like hurting somebody, I did look for Kurt's TN, calmed down, and just fixed it.
#24
Originally Posted by Armored Artist
Epis have a resale value? Unlike Agile? What are you smoking dude? Agiles go for above original price on Ebay.

Btw, selling counterfeit products is illegal.

Quote by Chazzy29
Please provide me a link to all three of your claims.

1). Epi's hold no value
2). Agile sell above original price.
3). Selling Gibson (copys) are illegal.

Thanks and I'll be waiting for the links to your claim!


Still waiting for the proof of these claims....
#25
You can answer #1 and #2 by looking at ebay yourself. #2 is a little hard because these Agiles don't come up for sale often. People who got the original Ghost and the old AL-3000 generally don't want to part with them, which is why you don't see them on ebay often. They only sold both those models with the original Gibson shape for 1 production run before Gibson made them change body shapes.

But these are the only 2 Agiles that I've ever seen selling for more than they originally cost. Like I said, these are the exception, not the rule. Generally they sell for less, just like an Epiphone.

As for #3, give Gibson a call at 1-800-4-gibson and tell them you're planning on buying a bunch of counterfeit Gibsons from China for sale in the US. Then tell us what they say. Your next contact from them will be from their legal team.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
#26
1) I purchased my Epi brand new for $350 shipped to the door and here is a used one that sold on eBay for $425 +Shipping.

So that claim holds not water!

2) Here is a used Agile AL- 4000 (not the lesser 3000 model) which sold for $270.00

So that claim holds no water!

3) Gibson cannot give legal advice, so per an attorney at law... I can, in fact, resale a guitar of this nature as long as I do not misrepresent the product or manufacturer the product. There is no legal form that says that I cannot sell a guitar.

So that claim holds not water!

This just proves that: "Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." ~Plato
#28
It sure is easy to 'get your point across' when you manipulate the info.

First, the $350 price you paid is not typical of a new Epiphone unless it's a blem or factory second. Take a look at the majority of NEW Epi Les Pauls on ebay, and they're almost all over $500. Musician's Friend, the CHEAPEST source of Epiphone sell them for $499.

Secondly, that's not al AL-4000. That's an old Agile 2500, easily identifiable by the lack of headstock / neck binding. This one predates the existence of the 3000, and it sold for $169 new 4 years ago. And for the record, it's one of the ugliest guitars I've ever seen.

And if you actually called Gibson and asked them, I would say that regardless of the fact that you're not misrepresenting, they would still be after you because the actual instruments have the GIBSON name on it. Trust me, Gibson don't let ANYONE fück with their brand name, particularly if they're substandard instruments, since it gives them a bad name.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
Last edited by Crunchmeister at May 17, 2006,
#29
Quote by Metalcore_slave
^ That AL-4000 is probably fake as I've never seen an AL model higher than the AL-3500 O.o


HahAHahhahahaa! Yeah, cuz Agile has such high demand that China, Japan, Indonesia are all racing to make fake Agiles....

But wait... that wouldn't make sense. Why build a fake guitar that already sells for chump change... I don't see the logic in that at all!

Thanks for the laugh tho! LoL!!!!
#30
It's not a fake. It was misrepresented in the auction by the seller. And it still sold for $100 more than its original new price.

Fools because they have to say something." ~Plato


lol. Well, this certianly explains your irrational need to let us know tha Epis are better guitar.

And I should add that I've been around here for some time. I've gained the respect of the other members because I'm probably one of the most impartial and fair 'advisors' on this board (hence why I'm on the mods' "who to listen to" list. It seems to me all you've done so far is try to prove your point with half-witted comebacks and erronious information to try sink other people to get your point across.

Sorry, but I find it hard to take advice seriously from someone who claims to have been playing guitar 16 years but can't tell the difference in tone between a mahogany Gibson and an alder Epiphone. That right there speaks volumes.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
Last edited by Crunchmeister at May 17, 2006,
#31
Quote by Chazzy29
HahAHahhahahaa! Yeah, cuz Agile has such high demand that China, Japan, Indonesia are all racing to make fake Agiles....

But wait... that wouldn't make sense. Why build a fake guitar that already sells for chump change... I don't see the logic in that at all!

Thanks for the laugh tho! LoL!!!!


You sir, are a d*ck

What I meant is that the seller could have took the lower quailty AL's (2000's) and added some ****ty finish too it. Not that another company had produced the guitar.

The point is that it isn't an AL-4000 and that you were fooled by the auction into thinking that it was actually higher quality and more exspensive than the AL-3500
#32
Quote by Crunchmeister
It sure is easy to 'get your point across' when you manipulate the info.


Hahhahahahha! I didn't manipulate anything.... you get busted on an ILL claim and now you wish to say it was "manipulated"? Interesting indeed!

Quote by Crunchmeister
First, the $350 price you paid is not typical of a new Epiphone unless it's a blem or factory second. Take a look at the majority of NEW Epi Les Paul's on ebay, and they're almost all over $500.


I paid $350 for a brand new LP classic shipped to the door. It's not a blem or a 2nd. Do you usually pay the asking price or do you try to negotiate a price. I believe I still have the email conversation with the salesman.... (if you need more proof) LoL! "manipulate" That's classic!

Quote by Crunchmeister
Secondly, that's not al AL-4000. That's an old Agile 2500, easily identifiable by the lack of headstock / neck binding. This one predates the existence of the 3000, and it sold for $169 new 4 years ago. And for the record, it's one of the ugliest guitars I've ever seen.


Mmmmm, says AL-4000. please provide a link proving that is a $169.00. Also, notice in the aution the guy states that it's the "Original horn and headstock design before Gibson forced the change." Or did I "manipulate" the entire thing?

Quote by Crunchmeister
And if you actually called Gibson and asked them, I would say that regardless of the fact that you're not misrepresenting, they would still be after you because the actual instruments have the GIBSON name on it. Trust me, Gibson don't let ANYONE fück with their brand name, particularly if they're substandard instruments, since it gives them a bad name.


Again, Gibson is not a law firm and cannot give legal advice.... however an Attorney at law can. And since I'm not misrepresenting or the one manufacturing the item, there is nothing they can do.

Of course Gibson can make idle threats.... none that could hold up in the court of law. I guess they could hire a secret mob to come to my house and bust my knee caps.... Hahahahah!

I'll be waiting for the proof that guitar Agile sells for $169 new.
#34
Quote by Chazzy29
I'll be waiting for the proof that guitar Agile sells for $169 new.


Dude. You're an idiot. Get your own lazy ass to do your research. Email Kurt at Rondo yourself and ask him. You'll a reply within 24 hours. It's not like you're going to believe me if I posted what Kurt emailed back to me anyway.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
Last edited by Crunchmeister at May 17, 2006,
#35
Quote by Danno13


Yeah. I'm just gonna let him stew in his own ignorance. He's probably gonna be a good souce of comedy aroudn here with his brand of 'information'. lol
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
#36
Okay, here is another Agile LP copy... And this one comes with a very nice hardshell case. (Included)

$212.50 (or did I manipulate it?)
#37
Quote by Metalcore_slave
What I meant is that the seller could have took the lower quailty AL's (2000's) and added some ****ty finish too it. Not that another company had produced the guitar.

Actually, that's an original finish. I remember my friend and I laughing at how gay they would look in a metal band. This was my friend who ended up buying the first 5 Agiles I got to try. He bought an Agile 2500 (they weren't called the AL series back then, only a model number) that very day for $169.

Quote by Metalcore_slave
The point is that it isn't an AL-4000 and that you were fooled by the auction into thinking that it was actually higher quality and more exspensive than the AL-3500


Right. He's such an «expert» that he gets fooled by 'deceptive' ebay auctions that someone with even an iota of knowledge on the matter in question would pick out right away. This is getting funnier and funnier by the second. I can't wait to read his next informed 'comeback' to this.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
#39
Quote by Crunchmeister
Yeah. I'm just gonna let him stew in his own ignorance. He's probably gonna be a good souce of comedy aroudn here with his brand of 'information'. lol


Prove me ingnorant and back up your bullsh~t claim....

You can't... can you?
#40
Quote by Chazzy29
Okay, here is another Agile LP copy... And this one comes with a very nice hardshell case. (Included)

$212.50 (or did I manipulate it?)


Either you manipulate, or you just don't bother reading what others post. Or you post **** and think people are jsut stupid enough to take it at face value.

I specifically said there are only TWO models of Agile that currently sell for considerably more than their new price - the original Ghost (Gibson Explorer copy) and the original Agile 3000 with the old Gibson body. This guitar you're providing as proof is neither.

So again, we have another totally groundless, irrelevant argument. Dude, quit it before you make it look like your IQ is also your shoe size.

Quote by Chazzy29
Prove me ingnorant and back up your bullsh~t claim....

You can't... can you?


Dude, I don't have to. You're taking care of that all on your own with every post you make.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
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