Page 1 of 3
#1
Okay, maybe the thread title is a little misleading but I just didn't know how else to put it.

Alright, so today at band practice, I show the singer this new song that I wrote, and he starts flipping out over one verse that's about God because he took it as if I was criticizing God, which I really had no intention of doing so. He refused to sing it, and demanded that I change it. So I was censored by my own band basically. The singer doesn't have a firm grip of the fact that rock and roll is not a clean genre, and what it says at times can be offensive, but that doesn't matter because that's what it's supposed to do. And plus, he was wearing a John Lennon shirt, who said that "The Beatles are more popular than Jesus"? What I can do about this in the future? Right now?
#5
...Yeah here's the problem, no one at my school is a good singer except for him, and he's got a real choir boy voice.
#6
Well in my experience singers are hard to come by, and the few you can find usually have LSD in one way or another. So if you kick him out and find a new one, chances are he'll have problem about something at sometime.

So short of kicking him out, you could either:
1 Sit him down and explain what you meant by the verse (Do this first anyway, if he's still being a jerk, go onto 2 or 3)
2 Change the lyrics (seems like he is winning, I know, but watchagonnado?)
3 Get the whole band to pressure him into singing it, whisper loudly about you might have to kick him out, how you know of a guy that could replace him, etc. (harsh, sure, but if he is being pig headed, it might be the only way)

I hope that helps...
#7
I already explained what I meant by the verse, which was that if God created us in his own image then he can be irresponsible and self-centered at times. I already changed the lyrics (the verse is now about a guy that likes to speak in tongues, but does it on TV for some odd reason) but I said, "You ****ing owe me for this." He's also Mormon, if you guys possibly know how to deal with this.
Last edited by joshsirjoshules at May 20, 2006,
#8
a mormon playing rock n' roll seems odd when you think of a full-fledge quaker man listening to black sabbath or slayer
Motley Crue 2/11/06!
Motley Crue/Aerosmith 11/21/06!
Sanctity/BLS 3/12/07!
Bleeding Through/Slayer/Manson-7/25/07!
A7x/Operator/the Confession/Black Tide 11/25/07!
Van Halen 2/12/07!
Quote by HaKattack
No, I wouldn't. My bear's penis is off limits.
#9
Well he doesn't listen to either, he listens to all of this Beach Boys, Beatles, sort of pop stuff, which I wouldn't mind if he was open to other music. He's in choir, so that's where he gets the good voice from, but his vocal idols are Paul McCartney (who is perfectly fine, anyone who's heard "I've Got A Feeling" would know this) and...Steve Perry from Journey, who is very apparent in his voice. Help?
#10
Well it is a band, and sometimes you have to compromise.

Sit down with him and explain everything about the verse, and show him your point of view.

Really though, if it makes him that uncomfortable he can't be forced to sing it. If the words mean that much to you and he won't sing it, you'll have to.
#11
Yeah, forcing someone to sing something they don't "feel" isn't going to work. Even if you "win" and make him sing it, chances are his perfomance will be sloppy at best. Try to explain your point of view to him, sure, but you have to see where he is coming from, too.
Jackson DKMG & KE3, Fender Mexican Strat, Stagg Acoustic

Boss Compressor & Chorus, Dunlop Crybaby, Behringer Delay, ISP Decimator, Ibanez Tubescreamer

Laney TT50H, Marshall 1960A, Roland Cube 15

Looking to jam in Belfast, PM me!
#12
so what you're saying is that you're angry with him because he doesnt want to sing lyrics that you wrote which offend him? yeah?

and you're saying hes the one with ego issues?

my name is matt. you can call me that if you like.
#13
Quote by joshsirjoshules
...Yeah here's the problem, no one at my school is a good singer except for him, and he's got a real choir boy voice.


If he's truly a good singer, he can learn all kinds of styles of singing. I hate it when people say that having a "choir voice" is like a bad thing in a band. If you have a "" choir voice, that's like the highest level of singing, or at least the hardest to do. They can sh!tty themselves up to make it bad to the point that it sounds good in a rock band.

Another thing is, Gurgle has a point. Your singer has just a difficult job as you, and should be treated as an equal band member. If you've ever had to sing in front of people for serious, and not just moaning incoherently to make them laugh, then you know how hard it is. They have every right to contribute to band decisions as you. When in comes to lyrics, they should actually have more of a right to critizise than anybody else. They are the ones that have to sort of open themselves up and share thier voice with the crowd, and it's hard to sing if you dont have any emotion behind it.

sorry if this seemed a little ramble-ey, I got kicked out of my band recently and I was the singer.
#15
Does anyone here really have that much band experience? You don't kick someone out (especially the lead singer) because they disagree with one verse. You'll never get anywhere with that attitude. If you work with him, you'll figure something out.

It's good that you changed the verse, it's always better to be selfless than selfish.
My stuff
Fender Telecaster Aerodyne Series
Gibson 1980 Les Paul Standard
Fender Standard Strat
Taylor 414-ce
Takamine Acoustic
1938 Gibson Lap Steel (priceless)
Fender Blues Junior
USA Big Muff Pi
Danelectro Fab Overdrive

My band
#16
Quote by Gurgle!Argh!
so what you're saying is that you're angry with him because he doesnt want to sing lyrics that you wrote which offend him? yeah?

and you're saying hes the one with ego issues?



I'm angry because he shot down my personal beliefs in order to promote his own, dismissing mine as blasphemy.

Wow, that's sooooo egotistical!!!
#17
Why should he sing something he finds offensive?

I already explained what I meant by the verse, which was that if God created us in his own image then he can be irresponsible and self-centered at times.


Irresonsibility and narcissism are human inventions, not divine ones.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at May 21, 2006,
#18
Here's a tip - don't sing about religion :p
Jackson DKMG & KE3, Fender Mexican Strat, Stagg Acoustic

Boss Compressor & Chorus, Dunlop Crybaby, Behringer Delay, ISP Decimator, Ibanez Tubescreamer

Laney TT50H, Marshall 1960A, Roland Cube 15

Looking to jam in Belfast, PM me!
#19
Quote by Archeo Avis
Why should he sing something he finds offensive?


Because he hasn't come to grips with the fact that rock and roll has been offensive since Elvis first played "Blue Suede Shoes" on the Ed Sullivan Show (?). Rock and roll is built on obscenities, sex, drugs. Everyone knows that. The Rolling Stones, The Sex Pistols, Elvis, Little Richard, Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, The Who, hell even Simon and Garfunkel were associated with these very things. If he is to be in a rock band, he has to understand that innocence plays no part in it at all.
#20
Quote by joshsirjoshules
Because he hasn't come to grips with the fact that rock and roll has been offensive since Elvis first played "Blue Suede Shoes" on the Ed Sullivan Show (?). Rock and roll is built on obscenities, sex, drugs. Everyone knows that. The Rolling Stones, The Sex Pistols, Elvis, Little Richard, Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, The Who, hell even Simon and Garfunkel were associated with these very things. If he is to be in a rock band, he has to understand that innocence plays no part in it at all.


Yeah, but a band is a group of people who care about what the others think (or at least it should be). If your friend's Mormon, but he has a voice like Steve Perry, I'd work with him. I know you feel really angry about this, but you need to swallow your pride and think, "next time, no songs about religion." Plus, if you are in a rock band just to be offensive, for the love of God quit! We already have enough bands out there trying to be "cool" by being offensive...
#21
Quote by joshsirjoshules
Because he hasn't come to grips with the fact that rock and roll has been offensive since Elvis first played "Blue Suede Shoes" on the Ed Sullivan Show (?). Rock and roll is built on obscenities, sex, drugs. Everyone knows that. The Rolling Stones, The Sex Pistols, Elvis, Little Richard, Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, The Who, hell even Simon and Garfunkel were associated with these very things. If he is to be in a rock band, he has to understand that innocence plays no part in it at all.


maybe you oughta come to grips with the fact, that you can't make your lead singer (or anyone else in your band) get up on stage and perform a song he totally disagrees with (especially when you're playing originals, with covers it might be ok, you can always distance yourself from the context and cover it for musics sake, but there are limits to that as well).
and rock&roll my dear friend isn't built on "obscenities, sex, drugs" as you put it, geez, how old are you? it's about the music, having fun (which in a lot of cases involved sex, drugs and obscenities for some musicians, but take a look at the stones today), maybe making a statement about the world you live in or that girl you dream about every night or whatever the hell boggles your mind. just grow up, and focus on the music part.
- When I was your age Pluto was still a Planet. - anonymous
#22
Quote by lespaul_rentals
Yeah, but a band is a group of people who care about what the others think (or at least it should be). If your friend's Mormon, but he has a voice like Steve Perry, I'd work with him. I know you feel really angry about this, but you need to swallow your pride and think, "next time, no songs about religion." Plus, if you are in a rock band just to be offensive, for the love of God quit! We already have enough bands out there trying to be "cool" by being offensive...


You don't understand, rock and roll is offensive because it's rock and roll, and that's the way it is.
#23
I think you're missing out on an important point here...

Rock'n'roll isn't about singing and playing what is offensive to YOU... Rock'n'roll had often been offensive to the 'community' and public, sure - but why the hell would ANYONE sing or play something they find disgusting?

Think about it.
Jackson DKMG & KE3, Fender Mexican Strat, Stagg Acoustic

Boss Compressor & Chorus, Dunlop Crybaby, Behringer Delay, ISP Decimator, Ibanez Tubescreamer

Laney TT50H, Marshall 1960A, Roland Cube 15

Looking to jam in Belfast, PM me!
#24
Quote by ar73m
I think you're missing out on an important point here...

Rock'n'roll isn't about singing and playing what is offensive to YOU... Rock'n'roll had often been offensive to the 'community' and public, sure - but why the hell would ANYONE sing or play something they find disgusting?

Think about it.


I guess it's more of a freedom of speech issue that I'm dealing with here, I have no right in this band to say what I truely think, and it pisses me off.
#25
Quote by joshsirjoshules
I guess it's more of a freedom of speech issue that I'm dealing with here, I have no right in this band to say what I truely think, and it pisses me off.


who started the band?
#26
Sounds like a problem of respect.

You need to respect your singer more.
Know what he won't sing.
And don't try to force him to sing otherwise.
If you feel that you're not able to express yourself with the band... Then why are you in the band?
#27
Quote by joshsirjoshules
I guess it's more of a freedom of speech issue that I'm dealing with here, I have no right in this band to say what I truely think, and it pisses me off.


Well YOU aren't saying it. Your singer is saying it. And he has the freedom to not say it. It's like Stagghound said, you have no respect for your singer.
#28
treat him as an equal member. if he doesn't want to sing it for a valid reason, then you shoudn't get mad about it.

Quote by ar73m
Here's a tip - don't sing about religion :p


yep, that pretty much sums it up.
#29
Quote by joshsirjoshules
I guess it's more of a freedom of speech issue that I'm dealing with here, I have no right in this band to say what I truely think, and it pisses me off.


Oh, but rock'n'roll is about being pissed off, it has been since the dawn of time...etc etc. Your excuse about rock being inherently offensive is pure bull**** and if you go about trying to be in a band aiming only for what rock "has been" you'll never get anywhere or do anything half-way useful. By your logic, should rock be racist or fascist or something? I mean, that'd be pretty offensive, wouldn't it? I guess that Hitler dude really knew how to rock!

You're not the singer. You shouldn't get to write lyrics at all. Even if you think you are a better lyricist than he is. If the vocalist isn't feeling the lyrics then he won't be able to perform them well. It's as simple as that. Vocalists need to connect with the words they're singing to best perform them.
ρ
#30
Quote by scousertommy
Oh, but rock'n'roll is about being pissed off, it has been since the dawn of time...etc etc. Your excuse about rock being inherently offensive is pure bull**** and if you go about trying to be in a band aiming only for what rock "has been" you'll never get anywhere or do anything half-way useful. By your logic, should rock be racist or fascist or something? I mean, that'd be pretty offensive, wouldn't it? I guess that Hitler dude really knew how to rock!

You're not the singer. You shouldn't get to write lyrics at all. Even if you think you are a better lyricist than he is. If the vocalist isn't feeling the lyrics then he won't be able to perform them well. It's as simple as that. Vocalists need to connect with the words they're singing to best perform them.


Well, hasn't it? I mean, take a look at any of the defining bands of rock and roll, and who wasn't offensive in one way or another? And these days it seems you get more from going backwards than you do from staying where you're at, which means rock is at a stand-still right now, musical innovations are a rarity in modern music. The only two bands that are really pushing the boundaries are Radiohead and Wilco, and that should be noted as opinion, but knowing you guys, you'll probably blow it way out of proportion just like the rest of the thread. Oh, and did I say anything about rock having to be racist or fascist? Who says you can't be offensive and accepting? The Clash were both, The Rolling Stones, Elvis, Jesus do I even have to say at this point? Plus, most bands are against those very things anyway, but it is still controversial and offensive talking and writing music about those things, no matter if you approve of them or not. And I guess you aren't that familiar with the David Bowie quote "Hitler was the first rock star?" which also sparked controversy, by the way, which goes to show what I mean.

Uh...excuse me, but who wrote the songs in The Who? Pete Townshend, the guitarist. Oh, and who writes the songs in Oasis? Noel Gallagher, the guitarist. On, and who writes most of the songs in Cheap Trick? Rick Nielsen, the guitarist. While I agree with your whole connecting point, he has to understand that if he's not gonna show us his songs and write for the band, he's gonna have to be my voice for my songs, because I sure as hell can't sing them. Plus I already changed the lyric anyway so stop getting on my ass. Problem solved.
#31
Quote by antipop333
who started the band?


It was basically me and the keyboard player, the singer was a compromise, as in the keyboard player wouldn't be in the band without the singer.
#32
Quote by joshsirjoshules
It was basically me and the keyboard player, the singer was a compromise, as in the keyboard player wouldn't be in the band without the singer.


then let them know what you want out of them..............it really sounds like the singer is stealing your band from you
#33
i'm going w/ antipop, i won't deal w/ people that have lead singers disease b/c it is what it is, if he's a mormon and he thinks what he is singing is infringing on his beliefs or he disagrees w/ it , fine, don't sing it, but he doesn't have any place to get ticked when he gets kicked out for a being a punk that has the scott stapp syndrome.
#34
Quote by z4twenny
i'm going w/ antipop, i won't deal w/ people that have lead singers disease b/c it is what it is, if he's a mormon and he thinks what he is singing is infringing on his beliefs or he disagrees w/ it , fine, don't sing it, but he doesn't have any place to get ticked when he gets kicked out for a being a punk that has the scott stapp syndrome.


That's exactly what I've been thinking, but the whole thing wasn't the fact that he made me change the lyric, even though I was fairly pissed about that. The thing that started this was the fact that he shot down my beliefs in order to promote his own, claiming mine were blasphemous, and nobody likes having that done to them.

Could you elaborate on this "Scott Stapp Syndrome"? Is it different from LSD?
#35
threadstarter, mind if I ask how old are you?
Jackson DKMG & KE3, Fender Mexican Strat, Stagg Acoustic

Boss Compressor & Chorus, Dunlop Crybaby, Behringer Delay, ISP Decimator, Ibanez Tubescreamer

Laney TT50H, Marshall 1960A, Roland Cube 15

Looking to jam in Belfast, PM me!
#36
look this problem is easily solved. i am no stranger to bein around those with overblown egos which are unjustafiable by their lack of talent. the only way to deal with a gay lead singer is to tell them straight up wateva your problem with them is and that they are out of the band for wateva reason. its that simple. cos my band used to have this singer, he was a complete ****. never shuts up and loves the sound of his own voice, this list goes on you know what im talking about. so i told him excatly how i(we) felt and that was the end of it. its not hard grow some balls. also dont have disputes over christian faith bull**** really guys wake up
#38
Quote by ar73m
threadstarter, mind if I ask how old are you?


I'm 16 and I've been in three other bands, three gigging bands, but in those bands the singer would always write the lyrics, so I've never had any problems with that until now because I've gotten better at writing lyrics.
#39
I'm 16 and I've been in three other bands, three gigging bands, but in those bands the singer would always write the lyrics, so I've never had any problems with that until now because I've gotten better at writing lyrics.


See? In 3 bands you've been before it was always the singer who wrote the lyrics. Then why did you suddenly decide that in your fourth band, the singer shouldn't have any say in what lyrics should be?
Jackson DKMG & KE3, Fender Mexican Strat, Stagg Acoustic

Boss Compressor & Chorus, Dunlop Crybaby, Behringer Delay, ISP Decimator, Ibanez Tubescreamer

Laney TT50H, Marshall 1960A, Roland Cube 15

Looking to jam in Belfast, PM me!
#40
not really, like joshrsirjoshules stated, he has only perfected his talent for songwriting, wouldn't you want to use your talent? In my band, everyone writes lyrics and then we work on the together.
Page 1 of 3