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#1
alright i dont know if this has been talked about but i want to know what "arm the homeless" means on tom morellos guitar.
#2
does it require you to actually think about what that statement means?

it obviously means put guns in the homeless hands so our middle class and wealthy class can have the homeless people kill people so the middle/wealthy class wont go to jail.

the homeless people will goto jail instead, because what else are they good for
#3
arm the homeless = an old guitar he found... i think
dunno check out the interview section of this site he explained that in an interview
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#4
A few of his guitars have statements like that. It's a satement that makes you think and come up with your own perception of it. I know he thinks something of it, obviously, but my view on it is give the homeless a chance.
#5
I imagine he's encouraging some sort of rebellion, since, you know, the homeless deserve a say too, and violence speaks louder than words.
Quote by eplp22
you cant even recognize the riff half the time anyway. And the bass is just clicks cuz he slaps the whole time and its tuned so low you cant tell the difference between one not he plays and the next. Forget I recommended korn to you.
#6
Quote by Obie
does it require you to actually think about what that statement means?

it obviously means put guns in the homeless hands so our middle class and wealthy class can have the homeless people kill people so the middle/wealthy class wont go to jail.

the homeless people will goto jail instead, because what else are they good for

haha, you're an idiot.
#7
It's in relation to hobos in New York city who have had to sell their arms for shelter or eat them for food. It's saying we should give them new arms.
#8
I like his Soul Power guitar
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#9
obie you are very wrong.

Go look up some stuff on wikipedia about him you'll see that his dad was very politicly engage. The saying in my opinion means that we have to give the homless, the poor, the means to get out of their misery and mabye to do so we have to give them weapons not really guns, the weapons thing shows more that it really is a violent fight that is required to chande the situation
#10
"Arm the homeless" is Morello-speak for "I am an idiot who uses my celebrity status to make irrational political comments."
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#11
who cares?

i love audioslave

but i agree with the guy above me

and it probably means, give crap to the homeless, because they're humans too. probably has nothing to do with guns.
#12
Quote by jcthomasva
"Arm the homeless" is Morello-speak for "I am an idiot who uses my celebrity status to make irrational political comments."

So a non-literal phrase on a guitar is an irrational political comment?
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#13
If its non-literal than interpret it for me in a sensible fashion.
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#14
^The poor and oppressed need to rise up and fight back against their oppressors- the ones with the money that they use to gain power.
#15
The only forces which the homeless and poor are oppressed by are their own laziness and trifling. The denizens of trash which comprise the American underclass can better themselves by getting up off their couches, cutting off American Idol, and begin to accept responsibility and quit blaming everyone else for their sorry ass condition.

What I find hypocritical is that Morello did just what a good capitalist would do: he became captain of his own destiny, worked hard and accomplished some great things. So why is he encouraging the lower class to do just the opposite and rebel against capitalism and suck at the teet of government and charity, the logical conclusion of his inane social ideas? Did he spit in the face of the big-time record exec who first signed RATM to a deal way back when? He should have, because according to his theory of social justice, this millionaire record executive was responsible for oppressing the poor by selling record albums to ignorant people with nary a pot to pee in. Evidently he thinks that lower class people are too stupid to better themselves, that the guilty-feeling enlightened class of which he considers himself a part should be stewards and care-takers of the dirty, huddled masses. Thats kind of arrogant, wouldn't you think?

There is no great brain power behind these remarks, just some musician who thinks its cool to be some hoity-toity, elite, condescending socialist, not unlike some punk teenager who thinks its cool to smoke cigarettes.
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#16
Quote by jcthomasva
The only forces which the homeless and poor are oppressed by are their own laziness and trifling. The denizens of trash which comprise the American underclass can better themselves by getting up off their couches, cutting off American Idol, and begin to accept responsibility and quit blaming everyone else for their sorry ass condition.

What I find hypocritical is that Morello did just what a good capitalist would do: he became captain of his own destiny, worked hard and accomplished some great things. So why is he encouraging the lower class to do just the opposite and rebel against capitalism and suck at the teet of government and charity, the logical conclusion of his inane social ideas? Did he spit in the face of the big-time record exec who first signed RATM to a deal way back when? He should have, because according to his theory of social justice, this millionaire record executive was responsible for oppressing the poor by selling record albums to ignorant people with nary a pot to pee in. Evidently he thinks that lower class people are too stupid to better themselves, that the guilty-feeling enlightened class of which he considers himself a part should be stewards and care-takers of the dirty, huddled masses. Thats kind of arrogant, wouldn't you think?

There is no great brain power behind these remarks, just some musician who thinks its cool to be some hoity-toity, elite, condescending socialist, not unlike some punk teenager who thinks its cool to smoke cigarettes.

Rich people aren't responsible for people being poor, it's Bush taxing the poor and giving the money to the rich, with all these tax cuts. Check here for examples.
Quote by Mascot
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#17
Heres why Rage was on a major label

"When you live in a capitalistic society, the currency of the dissemination of information goes through capitalistic channels. Would Noam Chomsky object to his works being sold at Barnes & Noble? No, because that's where people buy their books."

Basically they wanted to spread ideas and in order to do so had to utilize capitalist means.
#18
He has a Harvard desgree in political science, so i expect he should know what he's talking about. Whether you agree with his views or not, he's done a lot to make people think about the role of the government in people's lives, and his axis of justice raises this awareness further. Sure, he may exploit the capitalist companies and broadcasting methods that he objects to, but like the user above said, he does it to spread the message to a wider audience
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#19
Quote by Spaceman_Spiff
Heres why Rage was on a major label

"When you live in a capitalistic society, the currency of the dissemination of information goes through capitalistic channels. Would Noam Chomsky object to his works being sold at Barnes & Noble? No, because that's where people buy their books."

Basically they wanted to spread ideas and in order to do so had to utilize capitalist means.


No, basically they are hypocrits. They pocketed just about every cent from those records. Sure, they might throw some loose change to whatever little guilty cause they empathize with. They might even gather round the campfire and sing some songs and feel good about themselves everyone once in a while for the benefit of some snow owls. To bitch about capitalism, to wield it to spread your message, and then to pocket the proceeds is hyprocrisy.

You mostly missed my point about the meritlessness of class warfare pop Marxism. Please try to pay attention.
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#20
Quote by jcthomasva
No, basically they are hypocrits. They pocketed just about every cent from those records. Sure, they might throw some loose change to whatever little guilty cause they empathize with. They might even gather round the campfire and sing some songs and feel good about themselves everyone once in a while for the benefit of some snow owls. To bitch about capitalism, to wield it to spread your message, and then to pocket the proceeds is hyprocrisy.

You mostly missed my point about the meritlessness of class warfare pop Marxism. Please try to pay attention.

Oh stop trying to seem intelligent, and actually read what other people are saying. How else do you propose they spread their message? In a capatalist country, the only way to give out a message to the masses is to use the capatalist means. It's not not hypocrital, it's resourceful.
Quote by Mascot
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#21
I've pretty much lost interest in this thread. Its too much any more to ask people to practice what they preach.
Discolored skin gives me away.
#22
Marx and Engels were living off Engels dad money from his factories when they decided to stop working, chill out and produce what is known has the concrete base of socialism today.

So obviously they were hypocrites and what they brought to the world was bull****. Yea right.

Chomsky published his book from the money he made during his political career.
Same riddance with a dozen of other authors.

Making people think from a different perspective is the objective. You dont have to be a freakin mother theresa, who practiced what she was preaching, to change the world.
#23
Morello.... man he's the shizzle. I put Morello and Dimebag into one for my guitar style. I love 'em both. BTW Audioslave is flippin' sweet live.
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#24
Quote by jcthomasva
The only forces which the homeless and poor are oppressed by are their own laziness and trifling.

sorry you are an idiot, nvm
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#25
^yeah, in Germany you lazy bums have the state to prop you up and feed you. What a wonderful socialist utopia you people live in! get a job - oh wait, you probably can't because there are no jobs. Praise be to Marx & Engels!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4307303.stm
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Last edited by jcthomasva at May 31, 2006,
#26
Quote by wonderboy47
I imagine he's encouraging some sort of rebellion, since, you know, the homeless deserve a say too, and violence speaks louder than words.


I kinda of agree with that, I dont really think the violence is stronger than words thing is true though.

Great guitarist though
#27
I just dont get what the german job hiring rate has to do here.

I didnt say the far left extreme socialism is the way to go. Neither is the far rigth capitalism. Both of em help showing us the average middle where we should hang out.

Actually i can make a point ou of your german job hiring rate regarding topic which proves my idea.

Marx and his dude created new perspectives regarding how a society can be lead. They did so by living off some rich dude money, without actually doing what they said. Yet, they managed to influence many areas around the world where the job hiring rate is fubar.

So yes, someone can influence others while not doing what they preach. So yes, youre wrong.
Last edited by Muaddib at Jun 1, 2006,
#28
Also while we're on topic, just a lill historical input....

Its Lenine in russia who applied marx ideas to his system at the time. Not in germany. Germany job hiring rate is probably craptistic in stellar proportions because... what? They were right in the middle of 2 of the biggest wars known to mankind maybe?
#29
Quote by Muaddib
I just dont get what the german job hiring rate has to do here.

I didnt say the far left extreme socialism is the way to go. Neither is the far rigth capitalism. Both of em help showing us the average middle where we should hang out.

Actually i can make a point ou of your german job hiring rate regarding topic which proves my idea.

Marx and his dude created new perspectives regarding how a society can be lead. They did so by living off some rich dude money, without actually doing what they said. Yet, they managed to influence many areas around the world where the job hiring rate is fubar.

So yes, someone can influence others while not doing what they preach. So yes, youre wrong.


Marx & Engels didn't practice what they preached because they realized it wasn't feasible, it was simply their personal ideal. Socialism as it exists in much of Europe is merely watered down communism, maybe closer to what Marx envisioned than what Russia experienced. Socialism is responsible for joblessness, because it tears away any incentive for business to create jobs (i.e. engage in commerce), as well as incentive for people to work at jobs. This is exactly whats going on in just about every socialist country as we speak, hence a 12.5% unemployment rate. I never said someone can't influence others while not practicing what they preach, but I think its hypocritical and should rightfully undermine their message. Its like a preacher advocating chastity and fornicating like a bunny rabbit behind closed doors. Thats what I believe about Morello and Springsteen and any other goofball musician that spews such absurd rhetoric as "Arm the Homeless." If they all hate capitalism so much, then they need to stop accepting capitalism's dirty benefits and move to a Socialist country. Then they can find out how much their dumb ideas have screwed up a country.

You mistake Lenin for Frederich Engels, who was Marx's associate. You're right, Lenin brought Communism to Russia. Engels is the forgotten commie.
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Last edited by jcthomasva at Jun 1, 2006,
#30
Hell, morellos point is acheived with us debating some sticker on a guit, wheter you agree to his message or not
#31
Quote by jcthomasva
No, basically they are hypocrits. They pocketed just about every cent from those records. Sure, they might throw some loose change to whatever little guilty cause they empathize with. They might even gather round the campfire and sing some songs and feel good about themselves everyone once in a while for the benefit of some snow owls. To bitch about capitalism, to wield it to spread your message, and then to pocket the proceeds is hyprocrisy.

You mostly missed my point about the meritlessness of class warfare pop Marxism. Please try to pay attention.


the problem with what you're saying is that you interpret his little sticker as being against capitalism as a whole. he is not a hypocrit because he makes money by selling a product, that happens in almost every society. he is not bitching about capitalism, he is bitching about poor people not having power. whatever he means by that, it is far from synonymous with blaming capitalism as a whole. it's quite possible to believe that some aspects of capitalism lead to a loss of power for the less wealthy, and not believe that making a lot of money in the record biz is an equally terrible thing. i don't even agree with a lot of his sentiments, but your argument is putting a hell of a lot of words into his mouth.
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#32
Quote by sirpsycho85
the problem with what you're saying is that you interpret his little sticker as being against capitalism as a whole. he is not a hypocrit because he makes money by selling a product, that happens in almost every society. he is not bitching about capitalism, he is bitching about poor people not having power. whatever he means by that, it is far from synonymous with blaming capitalism as a whole. it's quite possible to believe that some aspects of capitalism lead to a loss of power for the less wealthy, and not believe that making a lot of money in the record biz is an equally terrible thing. i don't even agree with a lot of his sentiments, but your argument is putting a hell of a lot of words into his mouth.


I might be putting words in his mouth. Ultimately his point of view is a criticism of capitalism, because he is positing that poor people have no power because power is concentrated in the hands of oligarchical capitalists. If the wealthy succeed, it must be at the expense of the poor, so the belief goes. I think alot of these celebrities make remarks as such without carrying the ideas out to their logical conclusions. "Arm the homeless," is one of those irrational comments that packs more meaning than its simple violent connotations.

But we also have over a decade's worth of music describing what Tom Morello is all about politically, so we don't necessarily have to put many words in his mouth.

This might possibly be one of the more interesting threads, so long as we play nice.
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#33
Quote by jcthomasva
Marx & Engels didn't practice what they preached because they realized it wasn't feasible, it was simply their personal ideal.
That's because they weren't activists. They were theorists and authors. They presented an idea which they did not personally foster as a belief, and went about their merry way while others took their word to heart and did something about it. Sure it failed miserably.

Tom Morello is just using his advantage of celebrity to get out his ideas. It doesn't mean he believes himself to be a prominent political thinker nor an important idea-man. That's what politics is all about: using resources to your advantage. He's using the system to damage itself. When it's all you have, you have to use it. He wants to see a change, so he's promoting it. Sure, it's less humble than 'being the change', but promoting it is more effective if you want to see others be the change.
Last edited by skeptopotamus at Jun 1, 2006,
#34
^You're so wise.

Woah this thread has changed topic(not off topic, just changed) into something coo'
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#36
Quote by skeptopotamus
That's because they weren't activists. They were theorists and authors. They presented an idea which they did not personally foster as a belief, and went about their merry way while others took their word to heart and did something about it. Sure it failed miserably.

Tom Morello is just using his advantage of celebrity to get out his ideas. It doesn't mean he believes himself to be a prominent political thinker nor an important idea-man. That's what politics is all about: using resources to your advantage. He's using the system to damage itself. When it's all you have, you have to use it. He wants to see a change, so he's promoting it. Sure, it's less humble than 'being the change', but promoting it is more effective if you want to see others be the change.


I don't much care who is a theorist and who is an activist. For some reason everyone is looking for a debate where it doesn't exist. Morello has every right to say what he wants. I don't deny that people can use a system to destroy it, i.e. using capitalism to criticize it as Morello does. But doesn't the successful use of the system to spread your message about the system's shortcomings undercut the message at all? Its like biting the hand that feeds you. Tom Morello and Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen owe their success to a free market in which individual effort is rewarded with economic security and wealth.

I'm a little perturbed with this notion that "He's just spreading awareness, its all good." At some point people need to step back and evaluate the ideas broadcast under the banner of "Awareness." The reality of life is that not all ideas are valid, lest we have no absolute truths or morals to guide society.
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#37
Quote by skeptopotamus
0.o Sarcasm??


No, Skeptopotamus, I consider you to be a very wise young man. Your theories on black holes astond me.

So... yeah... on-topic...ish?...Morello...emm...WTF COMMIE?... eh yes, that is all that I add to this conversation to stop this post from being spam.
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#38
^You don't have to spell out the whole thing. "Skepto" will do fine

Quote by jcthomasva
I don't deny that people can use a system to destroy it, i.e. using capitalism to criticize it as Morello does. But doesn't the successful use of the system to spread your message about the system's shortcomings undercut the message at all? Its like biting the hand that feeds you.
Sure it'll cheapen the message if you're not willing to look around it. The irony isn't what they're going for. Though they know it exists, but it's not what they care about. If they were hung up on seeming redundant, ironic, etc. then they'd have gone the mother teresa route.

Tom Morello and Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen owe their success to a free market in which individual effort is rewarded with economic security and wealth.

That is very true. However, I could debate that last bit. It is not always true that through hard work and sacrifice one may reap profit and prosper. That's the Horatio Alger myth. There are millions of homeless and poverty stricken who are willing to, and do work their asses off in order to just survive. The few we see on street corners bumming for change make up mere fractions of the total homeless population. They work their hands raw, yet they seem infinitely stuck in the underclass because our current society is unwilling to give them a boost up. Hell, why should we when it's "their own laziness and trifling" that keeps them oppressed.

I'm a little perturbed with this notion that "He's just spreading awareness, its all good." At some point people need to step back and evaluate the ideas broadcast under the banner of "Awareness." The reality of life is that not all ideas are valid, lest we have no absolute truths or morals to guide society.

Maybe that's what they're getting at. The current truths and morals which are now guiding our society have been skewed by capitalism and glorious reward has blinded us to the adverse effects.
Last edited by skeptopotamus at Jun 1, 2006,
#39
Quote by skeptopotamus


That is very true. However, I could debate that last bit. It is not always true that through hard work and sacrifice one may reap profit and prosper. That's the Horatio Alger myth. There are millions of homeless and poverty stricken who are willing to, and do work their asses off in order to just survive. The few we see on street corners bumming for change make up mere fractions of the total homeless population. They work their hands raw, yet they seem infinitely stuck in the underclass because our current society is unwilling to give them a boost up. Hell, why should we when it's "their own laziness and trifling" that keeps them oppressed.


That may be just as much an overgeneralization as my "laziness and trifling" remark. I find it hard to concede that our society is unwilling to give the perpetually poor a boost upwards. I tend to disagree with most social welfare and assistance programs, but you can't say that society, particularly American society, is compassionless when it comes to helping the poor and downtrodden. Horatio Alger never became wealthy because he contributed so much of his earnings to charity to help street urchins and bootblacks. There is so much help out there, public and private sector, that most anyone can get the help they need to aspire to whatever dreams they have. In fact, there is so much now, as we inch closer and closer to socialism, the incentive to work hard begins to disappear. A good deal of poverty is the result of people not taking advantage of the opportunities presented to them, and looking to cast the blame on everyone but themselves for their condition. Society might influence, and sometimes it might even hinder, but ultimately, each individual is responsible for their actions.

And you are correct, just working hard will not accomplish success usually by itself. It takes a degree of intellect and knowledge as well, and the plain simple truth is that some people, due to their lack of intelligence, will probably never scratch out more than a meager living. Some people are innately unintelligent, but I would like to hope they are few in number. Many more people fail to develop their intelligence in their education, for whatever reason, whether they were sleeping in math class or dropped out of high school to have their baby. In either case, they did something foolish and handicapped their future. But thanks to our society there are innumerable ways to resume and continue that education, and still few take advantage of it.

Quote by skeptopotamus

Maybe that's what they're getting at. The current truths and morals which are now guiding our society have been skewed by capitalism and glorious reward has blinded us to the adverse effects.


Poverty is not necessarily the adverse effect or a consequence of capitalism. Capitalism thrives on all participants having the means to engage in commerce, and it languishes when people have little money. True, wealth grows disproportionately, leaving many people to feel as though they are impoverished in relation to some tycoon, but they cannot rightly blame capitalism for their condition. 21st century poverty is a far cry from 19th century poverty, and the poorest in America or in Europe today still have access to medical care and education, privileges their ancestors could not brag about. Sure, they may be deficient in disposable income, but their essentials are more often than not covered by any number of social safety nets. They are far wealthier than they would have been even fifty years ago.
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#40
Quote by jcthomasva
No, basically they are hypocrits. They pocketed just about every cent from those records. Sure, they might throw some loose change to whatever little guilty cause they empathize with. They might even gather round the campfire and sing some songs and feel good about themselves everyone once in a while for the benefit of some snow owls. To bitch about capitalism, to wield it to spread your message, and then to pocket the proceeds is hyprocrisy.

You mostly missed my point about the meritlessness of class warfare pop Marxism. Please try to pay attention.


They didnt pocket the proceeds. Buy a Rage album and check the back. There must be 2 dozen charities and groups they support.
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