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#1

3
3
1
2
2
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i get a really bad shooting pain in my wrist, it might be where i broke it last year (but it was a slight break and reformed perfectly so i don't think its too blame)

the problem is its a chord my teacher loves making me use
and i can't practise it (plus its in songs i like, so i really need to be able to play this)
can anyone show me exactly how my hand should be, theyre quite large so nothing is overstretching, my wrist just hurts


i will try and take a picture in a second...







the best pictures i can get
my wrist hurts on the left side at the connection to the hand (hold your arm out infront of you, top left corner of the forearm)
Last edited by tushmeister at May 30, 2006,
#3
The first (and only) song I can think of that this chord is in is the very last chord in Welcome to the Jungle. It's taken me a while to get at least more comfortable with this one. As for me, I form an E maj and then just bar the E and B strings with my pinky. Not knowing how you've tried to make it in the past, I don't know if you've tried this before or not. Tell me what you think anyway.
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#4
Erm, I don't think your wrist should hurt...but then I have pretty big hands.
I would bar the 2's with middle! finger fret the 1 with pointer and hold the 3's with third and pinky, hope this helps...
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Last edited by La Qotsa at May 30, 2006,
#5
Perhaps you should adopt the classical position for that particular chord? So your fingers are spread out further apart, and will feel free-er, so to speak.
#6
Thats how i play it, an E with the pinky barring the E and B strings

But it looks sloppy, hurts my wrist (but sounds fine)

Its in Hocus Pocus by Focus
and in one or two tunes hes taught me

its not overly common but he likes to use it
and to be honest so do i, it sounds funky :p
#8
you don't have to choke the neck. if you move your thumb down towards the middle (even if its just to where the fretboard and neck meet) it will ease the angle your wrist is at.

If your intention is to slam on that chord then you'll need to keep the thumb on there to mute the e-string tho.
#10
Im sorry but I can;t help it
My hand wont naturally fall any other way no matter how hard i try
I'm fine with most other things but this chord I simply can't do due to my wrist
Thats the least painful and only working way

(also i was holding the guitar up with the one hand to take the pictures, so its not quite how i hold it, its not quite that bad)

Im sorry but im offended by your comment because you dont offer help, which is what im asking for, i said i was having problems...


EDIT; To Finalshok
#11
Apparition thats the problem, its meant to be really hit hard and mute the string, plus i cant move my thumb down from the top after playing the other chords in sequence

(before that is
 
3
3
3
3
2
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#12
Quote by tushmeister
Im sorry but I can;t help it
My hand wont naturally fall any other way no matter how hard i try
I'm fine with most other things but this chord I simply can't do due to my wrist
Thats the least painful and only working way

(also i was holding the guitar up with the one hand to take the pictures, so its not quite how i hold it, its not quite that bad)

Im sorry but im offended by your comment because you dont offer help, which is what im asking for, i said i was having problems...


Dude, your problem is your technique... those comments are helpful Try it in the 'classical' position with your thumb behind the neck, fingers pointing straight down right on the tip. Fret and EMaj chord, then barre the 3rd fret with your pinky.

Don't get offended mate, most of the guys are here to help... the ones who aren't, just ignore them
#13
And i can't barre with my pinky if i move my thumb down
My hands are 'too big' to manouever it properly, not without making it impossible to flick between normal playing and this one chord

EDIT; Sorry Dave, it was Final Shoks comment, i didnt see any need for it, and right now my selfesteem is shot so every snipe like that really doesnt help, guitarings all i have right now and i dont need to be called uneducated and sloppy with no help offered...my bad for jumping at it..
#14
Quote by tushmeister
And i can't barre with my pinky if i move my thumb down
My hands are 'too big' to manouever it properly, not without making it impossible to flick between normal playing and this one chord


Then practice it dude... That's the only way, I mean, you can opt to do what you're doing now and trying it with your thumb over the neck, but you won't be playing that chord when you're in hospital being treated for carpal tunnel syndrome.

Seriously, I highly recommend you put the effort into practicing it with the classical position, if you're not willing to do that, find another voicing, or continue to play through the pain barrier - it's your call.

Quote by tushmeister
Sorry Dave, it was Final Shoks comment, i didnt see any need for it, and right now my selfesteem is shot so every snipe like that really doesnt help, guitarings all i have right now and i dont need to be called uneducated and sloppy with no help offered...my bad for jumping at it..


It's cool bro and his bad for being a complete and utter dick.
#15
Quote by tushmeister
Apparition thats the problem, its meant to be really hit hard and mute the string, plus i cant move my thumb down from the top after playing the other chords in sequence

(before that is
 
3 These are in postion, I would either hold with 3rd and pinky or barre
3
3 (1) Shift (I would be using 3rd finger to hold the 3) to pointer and hold the 1
3 (2)
2 <- This finger is already in position for the next chord, bar the other 2 with this finger (middle finger I would use)
-

Maybe the shift isn't as hard as you think, taking into consideration I would be barring the 4 3's.
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#17
sorry La Qotsa, i meant to change between the two my wrist has to adopt an awkward position which makes it hard to flick between the two
My fluency is nonexistant with this chord because i cant get 'into' it very well, i find it hard to barre the 3 with my pinky and hard to hold it strong enough


oh and my bad
its

4-3
4-3
4-1
4-2
2-2
-- -
#18
Quote by tushmeister
sorry La Qotsa, i meant to change between the two my wrist has to adopt an awkward position which makes it hard to flick between the two
My fluency is nonexistant with this chord because i cant get 'into' it very well, i find it hard to barre the 3 with my pinky and hard to hold it strong enough


oh and my bad
its

4-3
4-3 Hitting these with either pinky and 3rd or barring
4-1 Moving pointer down a few strings to the 1
4-2 Barred
2-2 You'll probably be holding the 24444 as a power chord so move the pointer (edit: nope I was right first time) on this 2 to the middle and bar the other 2 (All my opinion of course )
-- -


Hmm well much the same, I say keep at it, if you keep barring with the little pinky he'll get stronger and you'll get more used to this chord
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#19
ah my pinky is strong enough, it just cant bend in on itself
if you know what i mean, i cant find a way of keeping my wrist ok, and keeping my pinky there...

im sorry im being quite stubborn, its just i cant explain my problem too well and im sorry for that
#20
Ah, I get what you mean...I'm not so sure now, looks like it's down to wrist position and finger spreading now
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#21
Quote by tushmeister
ah my pinky is strong enough, it just cant bend in on itself
if you know what i mean, i cant find a way of keeping my wrist ok, and keeping my pinky there...

im sorry im being quite stubborn, its just i cant explain my problem too well and im sorry for that


If you can't do it dude, you practice doing it. When people pick up a guitar, they can't do anything. How do they progress? Practice. If you're not willing to practice that chord in the way I've suggested, then you're not going to progress with it and do yourself more harm than good.

It's understandable being stubborn, you don't want to break the pattern of what you'd normally do, but remember what Frank Zappa once said... ''Progress is not possible without deviation from the norm'' - you either change your technique so it doesn't hurt, or continue to be frustrated and not being able to play it with any degree of comfort.
#22
yeah
thanks to everyone whos tried to help
if i cant find a way i will have to avoid the chord like the plague

or just play it major when i need it, it doesnt sound anywhere near as good but it might be necesary
#23
Keep tryin' tushy, we all know you WILL get it
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#24
Dave
the problem is this isnt a technical or style problem
it seems physically impossible
ive moved my thumb all over the shop
tried barring the 2nd fret on the notes its needed
ive moved my wrist all over

i cant seem to get it
i can make it sound fine, but then it requires a few minutes of preperation to get right (because it is a huge shift from other chords and because its not a relaible way of playing it)

i will keep practising but my wrist is beginning to seriously hurt so i might have to stop for now
#25
Quote by tushmeister
Dave
the problem is this isnt a technical or style problem
it seems physically impossible
ive moved my thumb all over the shop
tried barring the 2nd fret on the notes its needed
ive moved my wrist all over

i cant seem to get it
i can make it sound fine, but then it requires a few minutes of preperation to get right (because it is a huge shift from other chords and because its not a relaible way of playing it)

i will keep practising but my wrist is beginning to seriously hurt so i might have to stop for now


If it hurts, stop immediately, yes.

Dude, when you pick a guitar up, playing two notes in succession seems physical impossible, do you remember? Think back to when you started playing, saying to yourself, 'Lol! Two notes, straight after eachother? Alternate picked!?! You kiddin me?' That's physically impossible!'... now look where you are, what was impossible then, is always possible with the right amount of practice, form and dedication.

Get stuck into that chord and try every hand position possible until you find one that's comfortable. Your reaction then will be... 'NOW I get it'... the position will come to you naturally if you just focus and let it flow with the knowingness that you can do it and that it is possible, don't believe you can do that chord, know you can - the rest will follow suit.

/psychological rant.

G'luck mate
#26
Cheers, but I've felt a physical impossibility
I can move up and down, I could alternate pick...maybe not fast but that was more of a mental issue of controlling it.
Now it is either beating pain, or finding a way around it....not quite the same as convinving yourself to play faster

Cheers to you all though
Sorry if i snapped at all
When i get it
I will tell you all
#27
Quote by tushmeister
Cheers, but I've felt a physical impossibility
I can move up and down, I could alternate pick...maybe not fast but that was more of a mental issue of controlling it.
Now it is either beating pain, or finding a way around it....not quite the same as convinving yourself to play faster

Cheers to you all though
Sorry if i snapped at all
When i get it
I will tell you all


Everything's a mental issue... now KNOW, not convince, that this chord isn't physically impossible.

Don't try and play through pain, you'll end up not being able to play the guitar. Full stop.

Good luck with it!
#28
Now call me crazy...

But it's

3
3
1
2
2

Well, if you barre the 3s with your pinky... Hold the 1 with your index, and then use your middle and ring for the 2s...

I don't know about you, but that's easier to me.

Also, you really need to change your thumb position, you're seriously hindering yourself if you keep your thumb there.

If you used your middle on the 2nd fret of the 5th string, you could use the tip to mute the 6th string also.
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#29
Ok that IS how i play it. Exactly as you've said.
And the problem is if i move my thumb my pinky can not barre it...thats the one position my hand will go in that can play the chord, and it hurts my wrist as well as looking awful and being difficult to use...


Sorry if i didn't explain it well
#30
um, that shouldn't hurt, even though that's coming from a person whose fingers spread out farther than usual. Just make up a chord that sounds a lot like it that doesn't hurt your wrist. Either that or find out what you're doing wrong to make your wrist hurt. at least your not attempting this one:

0
5
5
2
2
0

not fun. and the worst part is it's pretty much impossible to handle like a barre chord. how the heck does John Petrucci do it? he must have big/long hands. In the videos his hands look normal...
#31
Quote by rockergurl09
um, that shouldn't hurt, even though that's coming from a person whose fingers spread out farther than usual. Just make up a chord that sounds a lot like it that doesn't hurt your wrist. Either that or find out what you're doing wrong to make your wrist hurt. at least your not attempting this one:

0
5
5
2
2
0

not fun. and the worst part is it's pretty much impossible to handle like a barre chord. how the heck does John Petrucci do it? he must have big/long hands. In the videos his hands look normal...

Not difficult, but I have big hands and got used to spreading fingers out, keep at it and you'll know what I mean.
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#32
i can play that chord quite easily
i can barre the 2's and only overrun onto the third string (so no effect on the sound)
actually i find that easy
i couldnt use it midflow with a quick change but ive only tried to get the shape once to see if it was that impossible
#33
Quote by tushmeister
Ok that IS how i play it. Exactly as you've said.
And the problem is if i move my thumb my pinky can not barre it...thats the one position my hand will go in that can play the chord, and it hurts my wrist as well as looking awful and being difficult to use...


Sorry if i didn't explain it well


Well, try tucking your thumb perpendicular to the neck, rather than clutching it like that at first.
It's not necessarily easy to change your habits, but it's definately worth it. Not just for chords in this exact shape, but for things that require this kind of thing.

If you need to change your habits to do it, then you can either whine and hurt about it, or you can try other methods and try to make them work before dismissing them.
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#34
Well I see one thing, why are you holding the neck like that? try using finger 1 to hold down freet 1, then your 2 for the second. ftrets, then your forth for the third frets.

so try:

|_|_|_1_|_|
|_2_2_|_|_|
|_|_|_|_4_4

thats the best diagram I can do. Hope I heped.
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#35
I have big hands too, and I can't move the thumb to the back that easily. That chord does hurt a bit, but it's not that bad.

I did however find a comfortable position for the chord.

the index takes the G string, the middle barres over the A and D on the 2nd fret, and ringy and pinky take the B and E respectively.

That's the only comfortable way I foudn to play it.

It could be wrist related though...
#36
cheers
i will try that now, not too sure i can barre the 2nd and avoid the G string but i will give it a go...
#37
I have massive hands, I can still manage it. I know it's been said before, but keep your thumb just poking up in front of the 1st fret. Mute the low-E with your middle finger. Work on getting your pinky to bend upwards at the 1st knuckle. Then, try it with all your other fingers, it helps with other chords too. I find its trickier to have your middle finger do the barre, I end up muting the G string....bwahaha!
#39
i just did it, why is it so hard? its quite an easy chord... and i have very smal asian fingers.


i see your problem. its your wrist and thumb. putting your thumb over the fretboard is causing your wrist to twist unnaturally.

put your thumb behind the neck. this is crucial. finger the E and barre the two high strings with your pinkie. viola.
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#40
ive already explained i find that physically impossible
if i move my thumb it falls apart
and after two weeks of trying
i still cant do it at all (and i spent one week doing 10 to 20 minutes a day trying to get it right, it just wont happen)
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