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#81
im posting a chord now. sorry i didnt know the rules of this thread.



e|x
B|x
G|x
D|5
A|7
E|6

give inversion too.
#82
Originally posted by shadowhunter486
im posting a chord now. sorry i didnt know the rules of this thread.



e|x
B|x
G|x
D|5
A|7
E|6

give inversion too.

Is it A# Half Diminished?
Or maybe F something?

Anyway, try this one out-


e|-4-|
B|-4-|
G|-3-|
D|-6-|
A|-6-|
E|-6-|


Hint: there are two names for this chord.
#83
Originally posted by shadowhunter486
im posting a chord now. sorry i didnt know the rules of this thread.



e|x
B|x
G|x
D|5
A|7
E|6

give inversion too.


E diminished. (2nd inversion.) so it could be written Eo/Bb


Cas-
#84
Originally posted by Berlioz96

Anyway, try this one out-


e|-4-|
B|-4-|
G|-3-|
D|-6-|
A|-6-|
E|-6-|


Hint: there are two names for this chord.


actually, there's 3

root position = Bb7 sus4
1st inversion = Eb sus4/Bb
2nd inversion = Ab sus2/Bb



Cas-
#85
Originally posted by casualty01


E--7--
B--9--
G--9--
D-10--
A--0--
E-----


Cas-


With assistance on correct chord naming....


Amin/maj9

now post another


Leave well alone
#86
Originally posted by benjmc
With assistance on correct chord naming....


Amin/maj9

now post another


lol, ok ...


E-10--
B--9--
G--9--
D-10--
A-----
E-----


Cas-
#87
Originally posted by casualty01
lol, ok ...


E-10--
B--9--
G--9--
D-10--
A-----
E-----

Cas-


C+add9


Leave well alone
#88

E-0-------
B-0-------
G-2-------
D-0-------
A-2-------
E-3-------


I'll make up another too...



[code]
E-10-------
B-5-------
G-9-------
D-5-------
A-7-------
E--------[/code]

Have fun...


Leave well alone
#89
Originally posted by benjmc

E-0-------
B-0-------
G-2-------
D-0-------
A-2-------
E-3-------



G add9/13

Originally posted by benjmc
I'll make up another too...



E-10-------
B-5-------
G-9-------
D-5-------
A-7-------
E--------

Have fun...


Cmaj lol

EDIT: due to a dumb mistake on my part, i answered incorrectly (EDIT: TWICE!! :mad beat however caught my error, which resulted in the correct answer lol ....... the answer is E-7


Cas-
Last edited by casualty01 at May 3, 2003,
#90
Originally posted by benjmc



E-10-------
B-5-------
G-9-------
D-5-------
A-7-------
E--------


Have fun... [/QUOTE

Cadd9/E
#91
Originally posted by beatallica_fan
Originally posted by benjmc



E-10-------
B-5-------
G-9-------
D-5-------
A-7-------
E--------

Have fun...


der , well don't i feel like the dumbass lol.... i was playing the C (8th fret) instead of D (10th fret)

beat.

Cas-
#92
and yet, i did it again.....*sigh*

seeing as how theres no C in that chord, it's a plain ol' E-7

i gotta stop rushing, that was a dumb mistake on my part

Cas-
#94
Originally posted by Berlioz96
Try this one-


e|-0-|
B|-0-|
G|-1-|
D|-2-|
A|-2-|
E|-0-|



lol, Emaj


E--0--
B--2--
G--2--
D--0--
A--x--
E--2--


this is an inversion. one answer .......

Cas-
#98
Originally posted by Berlioz96
Try this one!

D|-2-|
G|-1-|
A|-2-|
E|-1-|


i hope the
D
G
A
E
was just a typing error.

well it's a Lydian dominant chord (4th mode of melodic minor), and it could be an F7 add #11. or a B7 add#11/F

depends if it's functuioning as a tritione sub. neither one really has a stronger function. as they're both the same exact chords.
so it's oneof those 2 . depending on what the bass players playing.


Cas-
#99
Originally posted by casualty01
i hope the
D
G
A
E
was just a typing error.

well it's a Lydian dominant chord (4th mode of melodic minor), and it could be an F7 add #11. or a B7 add#11/F

depends if it's functuioning as a tritione sub. neither one really has a stronger function. as they're both the same exact chords.
so it's oneof those 2 . depending on what the bass players playing.


Cas-

It wasn't an error. I just was too lazy to put the hi e and B strings, but you're right.
#100
Originally posted by Berlioz96
It wasn't an error. I just was too lazy to put the hi e and B strings, but you're right.


Then you've restrung your guitar really oddly, :S...

EADGBE EADGBE EADGBE


Leave well alone
#101
Originally posted by Berlioz96
It wasn't an error. I just was too lazy to put the hi e and B strings, but you're right.


it wasn't an error ?

the strings on your guitar go E A G then D ?

wierdo

Cas-
#103
Originally posted by casualty01

E--0--
B--5--
G--9--
D--X--
A--7--
E--0--


Cas-


lmao, E, is that even a chord?????

]

E--3--
B--6--
G--5--
D--6--
A--3--
E--x--
#104
Originally posted by beatallica_fan
lmao, E, is that even a chord?????


.. just a pedal or droned E

Originally posted by beatallica_fan


E--3--
B--6--
G--5--
D--6--
A--3--
E--x--


F- add9/C



E--x--
B--6--
G--7--
D--6--
A--x--
E--7--


although this may look like one chord, it's actually functioning as a V chord (actually it could be several V chords) give me one of them

Cas-
#105
Sounds like Ab Minor7 or something similar....but it has kind of a diminished sound...I may be wrong though....


e|-7-|
B|-9-|
G|-8-|
D|---|
A|---|
E|---|


Try this one. The root in not in the chord. Its basically a piece of a larger chord.
#106
Originally posted by casualty01
.. just a pedal or droned E



F- add9/C



E--x--
B--6--
G--7--
D--6--
A--x--
E--7--


although this may look like one chord, it's actually functioning as a V chord (actually it could be several V chords) give me one of them

Cas-


Looks like a plain old Bdim (or G#dim, D dim and Fdim) to me. Berlioz yours could be part of Emaj7, G#min, B6 or Fmin7b5. Im sure theres loads more, if the root isnt in that portion id say Emaj7 or Fmin7b5
#107
Originally posted by beatallica_fan
Looks like a plain old Bdim (or G#dim, D dim and Fdim) to me. Berlioz yours could be part of Emaj7, G#min, B6 or Fmin7b5. Im sure theres loads more, if the root isnt in that portion id say Emaj7 or Fmin7b5

Mine's F#min.
#108
Originally posted by Berlioz96
Mine's F#min.


lol..... what ? it's not F# anything, if there's an F# implied root, then it's an F# 6/9 sus4

other than that, it would simply be a G# minor, but , seeing as how you said the root isn't in the chord, than beats correct with E maj7

Cas- .......


ps. yah beat, it's a dim chord, but what V chord/chords could it/would it functio as?
#109
Originally posted by casualty01
lol..... what ? it's not F# anything, if there's an F# implied root, then it's an F# 6/9 sus4

other than that, it would simply be a G# minor, but , seeing as how you said the root isn't in the chord, than beats correct with E maj7

Cas- .......


ps. yah beat, it's a dim chord, but what V chord/chords could it/would it functio as?


F#min, lmao, i think Berlioz needs to check out the theory lesson at the top of this forum. Im stuck on what V chord the diminished chord can function as, please explain Doug.
#110
wow, this is the scaryist thread that i have ever seen.

hey, heres one for ya

e----0-----------------------------
b----0-----------------------------
g----0-----------------------------
d----0-----------------------------
a----0-----------------------------
E----0-----------------------------
#111
Originally posted by beatallica_fan
F#min, lmao, i think Berlioz needs to check out the theory lesson at the top of this forum. Im stuck on what V chord the diminished chord can function as, please explain Doug.


ok, well, a dim7th chord is usually (in jazz, progressive, fusion) used as a substitute for a 7b9 chord (it could be used to substitute several different ones, seeing as how dim7ths are symetrical and repeat every b3rd away). if you look at the chord i posted



E--x--
B--6--
G--7--
D--6--
A--x--
E--7--


you'll see it resembles an A#7


E--x--
B--6--
G--7--
D--6--
A--x--
E--6--


only thing is, the root of the dim7th chord is the b9 of the dom7th a 1/2 step below it. so, seeing as how the bass player would be outlining the dom7, you can feel free to just play the dim7th a 1/2 step above, even though it doesn't have the root in the chord.

A#7 = A#-C##-E#-G#

A#7b9 = A#-B-C##-E#-G#

Bdim7 = B-D (C##)- F (E#)- Ab (G#)

so you see, the Bdim7 has all the same notes as the A#7 b9 chord, except the actual A#.

so, the Bdim, functioning as an A#7b9 would work great to resolve to a D#maj7 , or even a D#min, or D#min/maj7. as long as it's reolving to the I chord of the implyed 7b9 chord. (D# being the I chord of A#7)

as for the symmetry of dim7th's, you know that Bdim7 is the same exact chord as Ddim7, Fdim7, and Abdim7. so, if the dim7th can equal 4 chords, then the same exact dim7th can also be used to imply 4 different 7 b9 chords.

the quickest way to figure out what four 7b9 chords that a dim7th could be used in place of, would be to take each note of the Dim chord at hand, and find the note a 1/2 step below each chord tone.

notes in the Bdim7th = Bdim7 = B-D-F-Ab
since the dim7th chord is symetrical, we know all the notes in the one dim7th = their own dim7th.

and since a dim7th substitutes for a dom7 b9 chord a 1/2 step below, go a half step down from each one of those notes, and you'll find the root of it's implied Dom7b9 chord.

Bdim7 = A#7 b9 (or Bb7 b9)
Ddim7 = C#7 b9 (or Db7 b9)
Fdim7 = E7 b9
Abdim7 = G7 b9

now, that doesn't mean you have to play a root position Dim7 chord to substitute for the 7b9 chord a 1/2 step below it.
what i mean is..... seeing as how it's all symetrical. i could simply play that original voicing of Bdim7 to substitute for all those seperate 7b9 chords.

isn't that grand ? 1 vocing = 8 seprate chords *giggle* ..... so play that chord on 3 consecutive frets, and you've just played every dim7th chord, and every dom7b9 chord

to see exactly what i mean, lets look at one voicing. and transform that 1 voicing into 4 different Dom7th chords (yes, just regular ol' dom7th's )



E------------- E------------- E------------- E-------------
B--6---6------ B--6---6------ B--6---6------ B--6---5------ 
G--7---7------ G--7---7------ G--7---6------ G--7---7------
D--6---6------ D--6---5------ D--6---6------ D--6---6------
A--x---x------ A--x---x------ A--x---x------ A--x---x------ 
E--7---6------ E--7---7------ E--7---7------ E--7---7------ 


you can see, that 1 voicing of a dim7th chord, by lowering each note 1 half step each time from the same voicing of the dim7th.
creates 4 different 7th chords. in their various inversions. notice the note thats lowered always gets lowered down to the root of the dom7th chord that it turns into.

so, if you can see that, than you can more clearly see the dim7th/dom7 b9 relationship


hope that answered your question man, thats the first time i tried explaining anything that complex on a message board lol, so if i left any holes or just wasn't clear on something, or any other questions. don't hesitate to ask......

Cas-
#112
Originally posted by courtneytaylor
wow, this is the scaryist thread that i have ever seen.

hey, heres one for ya

e----0-----------------------------
b----0-----------------------------
g----0-----------------------------
d----0-----------------------------
a----0-----------------------------
E----0-----------------------------


E-7 add4 ........ or E-7 add11 some people would write it as.

Cas-
#113
Originally posted by casualty01
ok, well, a dim7th chord is usually (in jazz, progressive, fusion) used as a substitute for a 7b9 chord (it could be used to substitute several different ones, seeing as how dim7ths are symetrical and repeat every b3rd away). if you look at the chord i posted



E--x--
B--6--
G--7--
D--6--
A--x--
E--7--


you'll see it resembles an A#7


E--x--
B--6--
G--7--
D--6--
A--x--
E--6--


only thing is, the root of the dim7th chord is the b9 of the dom7th a 1/2 step below it. so, seeing as how the bass player would be outlining the dom7, you can feel free to just play the dim7th a 1/2 step above, even though it doesn't have the root in the chord.

A#7 = A#-C##-E#-G#

A#7b9 = A#-B-C##-E#-G#

Bdim7 = B-D (C##)- F (E#)- Ab (G#)

so you see, the Bdim7 has all the same notes as the A#7 b9 chord, except the actual A#.

so, the Bdim, functioning as an A#7b9 would work great to resolve to a D#maj7 , or even a D#min, or D#min/maj7. as long as it's reolving to the I chord of the implyed 7b9 chord. (D# being the I chord of A#7)

as for the symmetry of dim7th's, you know that Bdim7 is the same exact chord as Ddim7, Fdim7, and Abdim7. so, if the dim7th can equal 4 chords, then the same exact dim7th can also be used to imply 4 different 7 b9 chords.

the quickest way to figure out what four 7b9 chords that a dim7th could be used in place of, would be to take each note of the Dim chord at hand, and find the note a 1/2 step below each chord tone.

notes in the Bdim7th = Bdim7 = B-D-F-Ab
since the dim7th chord is symetrical, we know all the notes in the one dim7th = their own dim7th.

and since a dim7th substitutes for a dom7 b9 chord a 1/2 step below, go a half step down from each one of those notes, and you'll find the root of it's implied Dom7b9 chord.

Bdim7 = A#7 b9 (or Bb7 b9)
Ddim7 = C#7 b9 (or Db7 b9)
Fdim7 = E7 b9
Abdim7 = G7 b9

now, that doesn't mean you have to play a root position Dim7 chord to substitute for the 7b9 chord a 1/2 step below it.
what i mean is..... seeing as how it's all symetrical. i could simply play that original voicing of Bdim7 to substitute for all those seperate 7b9 chords.

isn't that grand ? 1 vocing = 8 seprate chords *giggle* ..... so play that chord on 3 consecutive frets, and you've just played every dim7th chord, and every dom7b9 chord

to see exactly what i mean, lets look at one voicing. and transform that 1 voicing into 4 different Dom7th chords (yes, just regular ol' dom7th's )



E------------- E------------- E------------- E-------------
B--6---6------ B--6---6------ B--6---6------ B--6---5------
G--7---7------ G--7---7------ G--7---6------ G--7---7------
D--6---6------ D--6---5------ D--6---6------ D--6---6------
A--x---x------ A--x---x------ A--x---x------ A--x---x------
E--7---6------ E--7---7------ E--7---7------ E--7---7------


you can see, that 1 voicing of a dim7th chord, by lowering each note 1 half step each time from the same voicing of the dim7th.
creates 4 different 7th chords. in their various inversions. notice the note thats lowered always gets lowered down to the root of the dom7th chord that it turns into.

so, if you can see that, than you can more clearly see the dim7th/dom7 b9 relationship


hope that answered your question man, thats the first time i tried explaining anything that complex on a message board lol, so if i left any holes or just wasn't clear on something, or any other questions. don't hesitate to ask......

Cas-


Thats fantastic thanks Doug, and amazingly i pretty much understand it all. My only question doesnt really apply to the theory rather than the process of actually putting it into practise. As weve spoken about im really trying to improve my jazz playing, but its not easy when i dont have a band to jam with. I would have thought that the b9 (in this case B) may clash somewhat with the bass being rooted around Bb, or would the bass players playing retain a similar ambiguity (best word i can think of) to prevent this, i mean i know any jazz bassist wouldnt simply pump out root notes but i would thought a clash may occur, especially as the b9th is so low on the register of the guitar.
#114
Originally posted by beatallica_fan
Thats fantastic thanks Doug, and amazingly i pretty much understand it all. My only question doesnt really apply to the theory rather than the process of actually putting it into practise. As weve spoken about im really trying to improve my jazz playing, but its not easy when i dont have a band to jam with. I would have thought that the b9 (in this case B) may clash somewhat with the bass being rooted around Bb, or would the bass players playing retain a similar ambiguity (best word i can think of) to prevent this, i mean i know any jazz bassist wouldnt simply pump out root notes but i would thought a clash may occur, especially as the b9th is so low on the register of the guitar.


well, to answer your question........ yes! . it might clash a bit, at times, but thats not neccesarily a bad thing. seeing as how the sound of dominant 7ths, diminished and any altered dominant chords (Dom7 b9, Dom #9, Alt etc..) all have inherently unstable sounds, you can pretty much make them as unstable and clashing as you like, as long as you resolve them well. it's all in the resolution.

and seeing as how bass players (jazz bassists) love to play tri-tone subs, and passing tones, as well as roots your Bdim (A#7b9) might wind up "sounding" like any of the other 4 dim7/ 7b9 chords. seeing as how they can all function as the same chords, you're basically playing in 4 tonalities all at the same time. the progression won't get messed up or anything, it'll just sound differently than what you intended. maybe prettier, maybe harsher and more dissonant than you had expected. but that can be a great thing

thats one of the reasons i love jazz, the spontaneity of it.

Cas-