#1
In my opinion yes, rock is dead as cultural and spiritual movement, its all too damn fkg comercial and stupid to be real rock. Bands usually are cuties who spend more time in front of mirrors than playing the guitar or writing lyrics, and thats a fact, pure hard rock chords and lame ideas.

Im not plannin to start another no-ending discussion about Pop vs. Rock, and Im far from those ambiguous adjectives like "good music" and "bad music", i left kindergarden some years ago. Dont take me wrong, i respect your music preferences, but just remember that there was a time when Rock was a phylosophy, a point of view, a cultural movement that fought against war and hunger, against violence and lies, and that people believed in it and lived for it. There was a time when punk rockers were ugly!! Things like that doesnt happen anymore.. why? Well, what was the last song ive heard about the war?... Wake me up when september ends... please compare it to "With God on Our Side" or "John Brown" by Bob Dylan... and you tell me...

Dylan played minutes before Martin Luther King pronounced that famous "I had a dream", and what about Pink Floyd and the Wall, or John Lennon and Vietnam... And now? WHO? Ashlee simpson?

However, pure rock still exists in our souls and in our classic rock cds, but if we are talking about the music "industry" and its latest creations, i agree with my fellow bonchie1... cow crap... honestly, what could we expect of the labels after the Backstreet Boys and the Spice Girls era? THE DUMBASS ERA... thats reality nowadays... and thats why Cobain commited suicide... I can't even smell any kind of spirit now... just hair gel.
Last edited by God_Clapton at Jun 4, 2006,
#4
I guess I can see what you're saying, but I don't think rock is dead at all. There are still some bands (main stream) that are good and don't really "sell out". IE the foos

There are tons of local bands that still play good rock and/or roll. You obviously put some thought into this, so I hate to see it riddled with spelling mistakes and the like
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
#5
Quote by sadistic_monkey
NO! Classic rock was an era. Rock itself is not dead. Actually listen to it. Pillock.


Read it again monkey, I said.. "dead as a cultural movement!"... and by the way, rock was born in order to express the social conscience of that time...
#6
Good post, but there is still some creative and pure music around in hardcore metal i think, and cobain did not commit suicide
#7
Quote by God_Clapton
Read it again monkey, I said.. "dead as a cultural movement!"... and by the way, rock was born in order to express the social conscience of that time...



If you look at the "social conscience" of today, it's horribly...wrong. There are so many things wrong with "society" in the present, I don't really think I would want the general public to express that same sentiment with rock. I used music (in my case mostly rock n' roll/blues) to express MYSELF, and how I feel about the world.
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
#8
Rock isnt dead, its just changing. It always happens with every kind of music. Jazz and blues and stuff turned into rock. Now unfortunatly rock is starting to turn into pop. There will still be good rock bands though. But there audience will only be the really dedicated fans. I probably sound retarded for everything i just said, because im kinda confused about what im saying but I think i said what i wanted to.
#9
Quote by fronkpies
Do you think there was no shit music in the 60's and 70's? there has ALWAYS and will always be terrible music,Pop bands have been aroun forever and are always gonna be there and if you cant find any good bands now then your not looking hard enough.

And maybe you should leave people's suicide out of things

EDIT: I wasnt alive in the 60's but i know for a fact there was more bad bands than there were good.


In reply to clapton_god in another thread.

muse
Q.O.T.S.A
death from above
red hot chilli peppers
john frusciante
B.R.M.C.
the datsuns
the flaming lips
oasis

The list could go on with great bands of the last few years (granted not all rock)

And image has always been part of music you idiot, marc bolan/david bowie/sex pistols anyone?

EDIT:
Quote by thrashing moles
Rock isnt dead, its just changing.


well said

EDIT EDIT: If you cant find great music nowadays then your not looking hard enough
Tears in waves, minds on fire
Nights alone by your side
Last edited by fronkpies at Jun 4, 2006,
#10
"In my opinion yes, rock is dead as cultural and spiritual movement, its all too damn fkg comercial and stupid to be real rock. Bands usually are cuties who spend more time in front of mirrors than playing the guitar or writing lyrics, and thats a fact, pure hard rock chords and lame ideas."

Cuties? WTF? Listen to some real modern rock, and stop generalizing the music of an entire era based on what you see on MTV.

Im not plannin to start another no-ending discussion about Pop vs. Rock, and Im far from those ambiguous adjectives like "good music" and "bad music", i left kindergarden some years ago. Dont take me wrong, i respect your music preferences, but just remember that there was a time when Rock was a phylosophy, a point of view, a cultural movement that fought against war and hunger, against violence and lies, and that people believed in it and lived for it. There was a time when punk rockers were ugly!! Things like that doesnt happen anymore.. why? Well, what was the last song ive heard about the war?... Wake me up when september ends... please compare it to "With God on Our Side" or "John Brown" by Bob Dylan... and you tell me...

Oh, so now it's about the image?

Dylan played minutes before Martin Luther King pronounced that famous "I had a dream", and what about Pink Floyd and the Wall, or John Lennon and Vietnam... And now? WHO? Ashlee simpson?

Yeah, because obviously Ashlee Simpson epitomizes the rock of this decade

However, pure rock still exists in our souls and in our classic rock cds, but if we are talking about the music "industry" and its latest creations, i agree with my fellow bonchie1... cow crap... honestly, what could we expect of the labels after the Backstreet Boys and the Spice Girls era? THE DUMBASS ERA... thats reality nowadays... and thats why Cobain commited suicide... I can't even smell any kind of spirit now... just hair gel.

Ala the 80s?
Last edited by yawn at Jun 4, 2006,
#11
Quote by sk8ero131
Good post, but there is still some creative and pure music around in hardcore metal i think, and cobain did not commit suicide


You're right Sk8ero, there is still some creative and pure music around, but i was talking about rock as a social and political movement, in my opinion its dead, it doesnt have the strengh and the direction, the messagge, anymore.

And you prolly right about Cobain too, let me rephrase "thats what Cobain died for"...
#12
Quote by sk8ero131
Good post, but there is still some creative and pure music around in hardcore metal i think, and cobain did not commit suicide


ok cobain did commit suicide.....if i remember correctly it was a shotgun to the head

also whoever created this thread is a god, the good rook and roll that was played back in the 70's and 80's is now considered crap........i dont believe it. Now the music industry is all about "cookie cutter" fashion and lame music, where did we go wrong, someone needs to bring back the rock sound of yesteryear and bring back the music that accually has meaning, and the guitarist who sat at their guitars for hours perfecting their own sound, and the singers who can accually sing and dont lipsync, and the bassest who accually play more than one or two notes, and the drummers who accully can play and get rid of the bands that use drum machines bc if your in a band using a drum machine FIND A DRUMMER!!
#13
Quote by God_Clapton
You're right Sk8ero, there is still some creative and pure music around, but i was talking about rock as a social and political movement, in my opinion its dead, it doesnt have the strengh and the direction, the messagge, anymore.

And you prolly right about Cobain too, let me rephrase "thats what Cobain died for"...


I dont think you or anybody else knows why cobain killed himself you ****ing moron.

And as for the message, maybe its just changed?

EDIT: Yawn could not have said it better

Tears in waves, minds on fire
Nights alone by your side
Last edited by fronkpies at Jun 4, 2006,
#14
I see what you're saying and I completely agree. Mainstream music used to be revelant to society. Now the vast majority of it is mindless crap made by stupid teenagers who are in it for a few dollars and their fifteen minutes of fame.
I love neapolitan ice cream, but I HATE VANILA AND STRAWBERRY!

Tremulous Name:
Aaron-[UVache]
#15
Quote by justinp93
I see what you're saying and I completely agree. Mainstream music used to be revelant to society. Now the vast majority of it is mindless crap made by stupid teenagers who are in it for a few dollars and their fifteen minutes of fame.


Yer good point, because there were absolutly no pop/money making bands in the past

Tears in waves, minds on fire
Nights alone by your side
#16
Quote by justinp93
I see what you're saying and I completely agree. Mainstream music used to be revelant to society. Now the vast majority of it is mindless crap made by stupid teenagers who are in it for a few dollars and their fifteen minutes of fame.


You read my mind Justin.

By the way, your Avatar rocks! hehe.
#17
Yer good point, because there were absolutly no pop/money making bands in the past

Its enough fronkpies, you're not at the level of this debate, please stop harrasing people and being retarded. Try using arguments and well based ideas... im getting tired of that ironic pseudohumor, really, neither funny or interesting...
#18
I find it hard to take a "serious post" seriously when phrases such as "when rock was a phylosophy" are used.

Please learn to spell, your inability to do so made me laugh at your post rather than respond in a constructive manner.

Isn't it fairly obvious why Rock music does not have the same power as it used to? It's probably because we've been there and there really aren't as many political issues on which to write lyrics. In the 60s there was... Equal rights, freedom in general, the generation gap, the war in Vietnam... Nuclear weapons being pioneered... Compare that with today. A small, slow war in Iraq that isn't anything we haven't experienced before.

Rock has not the power to "shock" as it used to either! Parents used to hate the music of their children in the 60s, and so children "rebelled" through it! These days, parents are those very children! They often influence their own children in terms of musical preference. Songs like "my generation" stressed the distinct "generation gap" that young people of that era felt, this is now accepted as completely normal, nothing out of the ordinary.

And "rock is too commercial to be real good". What a load of ****.

Nirvana=Extremely "commerical", liked by nearly every serious music listener. Doesn't make them any less a great band...

The same applies to the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Muse, Pearl Jam... All the great acts that are making great music to this day! We are however progressing, music would be boring if we didn't progress... Rock wouldn't exist without progression.
#19
Quote by God_Clapton

Its enough fronkpies, you're not at the level of this debate, please stop harrasing people and being retarded. Try using arguments and well based ideas... im getting tired of that ironic pseudohumor, really, neither funny or interesting...


It was a valid point wasnt it?

EDIT: gimme_shelter
Tears in waves, minds on fire
Nights alone by your side
#20
God_Clapton : So you wrote this out and posted it on UG, meaning you were willing to discuss it and debate it with both sides - or so I thought. You have only addressed people who agree with you, and anyone who has taken a different view you have completely ignored, even when they directly addressed you - like fronkpies, yawn, myself. Please grow up a little and at least discuss this. Did you really post it just to gather up people who feel exactly the same way you do and have them tell you that?

edit: Oh great, so you addressed fronkpies while i was typing this, but wait! Only to tell him that he isn't intelligent enough to talk about this idea you've had (very original, I've never even heard someone mention it before BTW). I've seen lots of posts by him, and he didn't come off as an idiot. Where as you're first post in this thread makes you appear one.
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
Last edited by iain4444 at Jun 4, 2006,
#21
well, your tottally genralizing rock music off mtv, the chilis are getting back to a classic rock style with leads and kickin' solos, jet could hav easily made it in the 70s, the foo fighters still play riffy songs and audioslave has solos that i can compare to van halen, rock sint dead, but there is just too many emo/ death metal cookie cutter bands, that is why jet was huge after there first album, it was a total breath of fresh air,

rock will never die
#22
Quote by gimme_shelter
I find it hard to take a "serious post" seriously when phrases such as "when rock was a phylosophy" are used.

Please learn to spell, your inability to do so made me laugh at your post rather than respond in a constructive manner.

Isn't it fairly obvious why Rock music does not have the same power as it used to? It's probably because we've been there and there really aren't as many political issues on which to write lyrics. In the 60s there was... Equal rights, freedom in general, the generation gap, the war in Vietnam... Nuclear weapons being pioneered... Compare that with today. A small, slow war in Iraq that isn't anything we haven't experienced before.

Rock has not the power to "shock" as it used to either! Parents used to hate the music of their children in the 60s, and so children "rebelled" through it! These days, parents are those very children! They often influence their own children in terms of musical preference. Songs like "my generation" stressed the distinct "generation gap" that young people of that era felt, this is now accepted as completely normal, nothing out of the ordinary.

And "rock is too commercial to be real good". What a load of ****.

Nirvana=Extremely "commerical", liked by nearly every serious music listener. Doesn't make them any less a great band...

The same applies to the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Muse, Pearl Jam... All the great acts that are making great music to this day! We are however progressing, music would be boring if we didn't progress... Rock wouldn't exist without progression.



Finnaly, someone with Arguments!! someone who "READ" the post! I understand what youre saying gimme_shelter, you dont need to be so violent to express yourself, these are just opinions...

Well I do not agree with you when you say that there arent enough political issues to write lyrics about, thousands of people die of HUNGER in Africa everyday, what about Aids, what about pollution, and Iraq a small war? How many americans have died there? how many iraquies dies per day? An what about Iran and its nuclear program? or violent childhoods, awful parenthoods, and the list goes on... and do you know whats the worst of all this? People's indiference...

There are political issues to write about, but rock artists and people dont pay any attention to them.

And obviously, rock nowadays is accepted as something common and normal, because of its LACK OF COMPROMISE, do you think that Bush started reconsidering war after listening to My Humps? Or Osama Bin Laden is a better person after listening to Foo Fighters... yeez...

And Nirvana IS commercial, but some time ago... it wasnt...
#23
Quote by iain4444
God_Clapton : So you wrote this out and posted it on UG, meaning you were willing to discuss it and debate it with both sides - or so I thought. You have only addressed people who agree with you, and anyone who has taken a different view you have completely ignored, even when they directly addressed you - like fronkpies, yawn, myself. Please grow up a little and at least discuss this. Did you really post it just to gather up people who feel exactly the same way you do and have them tell you that?

edit: Oh great, so you addressed fronkpies while i was typing this, but wait! Only to tell him that he isn't intelligent enough to talk about this idea you've had (very original, I've never even heard someone mention it before BTW). I've seen lots of posts by him, and he didn't come off as an idiot. Where as you're first post in this thread makes you appear one.


Iain, c'mon man... what would i discuss with you?, you just said that you feel music as a way to express yourself and that society is wrong and shouldnt be expressed... there are no arguments, its just an hermetic idea.
Yawn, he just pointed some phrases of my post and nothing else... where are the ideas to discuss???
And that one called fronkpies, well... not too much to say...
#24
Ok, I'll pick something from your post to discuss with you.

Quote by God_Clapton

do you think that Bush started reconsidering war after listening to My Humps? Or Osama Bin Laden is a better person after listening to Foo Fighters... yeez...



I think that is a ridiculous point, and considering everything else you said I find it hard to believe you said that. I don't think either of those songs/artists would have influenced either one of those people. Do you think that Bush would have reconsidered war in Iraq if he had of listened to The Who or some "real rock" before he made his decision? Or if Osama Bin Laden had listened to Zeppelin I and II in their entirety, would that make him decide to be a better person? Do you honestly believe that?
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
#26
Surely the (long term) commerciality of a rock group shows how good they are? Will Nirvana be listened to for the next 30 years? It's been 12 and they're more popular than ever. Will the Black Eyed Peas be listened to in the next 12? I doubt it... It is likely that truely great artists will become commercial, and I see no problem with that. On the other hand, "bands" such as Nsync and The Spice Girls had their day, possibly year of intense fame... In the long run, they are nothing compared to The Chilis, Foos, Nirvana, Neil Young etc.

"An what about Iran and its nuclear program? or violent childhoods, awful parenthoods"

a) Iran's nuclear problem is a miniscule problem in comparison to the USSR's Nuclear capabilty in the 60s-70s-80s. The USSR was ****in' huge for a start, and far more powerful!
Songs were written, protests took place... This matter is boring in comparison, nothing us Americans (in my case British) haven't been through.

b) Violent childhoods have existed since the dawn of time. In fact, they have improved vastly if you compare them to the days in which William 1st of England had every man, adolescent upward, killed, leaving the women and children with nothing to eat but the rotting corpses of their loved ones... That wasn't even contained, it was widespread, throughout the whole of the North of England.

And artists do write about their childhoods, violent or distressing in whichever way! Think about it!
#27
Quote by iain4444
Ok, I'll pick something from your post to discuss with you.


I think that is a ridiculous point, and considering everything else you said I find it hard to believe you said that. I don't think either of those songs/artists would have influenced either one of those people. Do you think that Bush would have reconsidered war in Iraq if he had of listened to The Who or some "real rock" before he made his decision? Or if Osama Bin Laden had listened to Zeppelin I and II in their entirety, would that make him decide to be a better person? Do you honestly believe that?



Obviously not in such a drastic manner, but remember that bands like Pink Floyd, or solists like Bob Dylan, John Lennon lived in a political context where rock was the voice of the people. Somehow, someday, somewhere rock lost that conection with the people, with reality, and became another tool to turn society into a sad and pathetic, morbid and indiferent mass of life forms.

Music had been for thousand of years the best way to spread a messagge, and artists used to be the ones who told the truth... now they are all just a bunch of clowns, and you know it