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#1
Greetings I do not want to cause a hate war or a hatred. I merely want to express my views on Nu-Metal and Metal-Core as a debateable subject. I will explain how in my opinion that Nu-Metal and Metal-Core should be considered true sub-genres of metal. Before you decide that I am a moron and scroll down to the bottom of the page and decide to flame me, note that I believe that I have a valid point and I well encourage you to read on.

Metal truly started with the forming of black Sabbath around 1970, this created the true meaning of metal and inspired many artists to help with this music and art. Later in the 1980?s iron maiden, motorhead, and Judas Priest. This created the huge wave of metal to come and it also caused heavy metal to become MAINSTREEM. Then later from heavy metal, thrash metal came into existence with bands like slayer, Metallica, anthrax, mega death, and pantera. Thrash metal took elements of HARDCORE PUNK (speed) and merged it into heavy metal to get a more faster aggressive form of metal, this sounded totally different then heavy metal so it was labelled thrash or speed metal. People now consider this genre dead due to the lack of new thrash bands, BUT with thrash came black, death, and melodic death metal. Now that the 80?s were over metal lived in the underground due to the lack of mainstream success. Now think to yourself. If thrash metal was not considered true metal us metal heads would of died out when the mainstream success died. Basically my point so far is that thrash metal had elements of another genre of music and kept metal alive, it also became the influence of death metal that had the speed of thrash.

Now Nu-metal came alive with the band Korn formed in 1993. Korn basically created Nu-metal by merging rap elements into metal and caused Nu-metal to hit MAINSTREEM success. Now that Nu-metal had hit its mainstream success, many many many nu-meal bands were signed. Now Nu-Metal has died in popularity, it has been considered a fad, a insignificance, now do you think that if the original heavy metal at mainstream success wasn?t excepted, the entire subculture to metal wouldn?t of died? Now honestly I think that this genre is just as important in heavy metal history in some ways as thrash. Thrash has MANY fans still even though by many Metalheads its considered dead, and Nu-metal has MANY Korn, slipknot, and linkinpark fans, although its not as popular as it once was.

Now lastly there is Metalcore, a sub-genre that is hardcore and metal based. Metalcore has been frowned upon by the Metalheads due to its elements of hardcore and the fact that it has been considered a fad although bands like lamb of god has formed in 1990. Metalcore is experiencing what heavy metal experienced in the 80?s, MAINSTREEM SUCSESS. This genre also has what thrash has, elements of a non metal genre. Also people say that all the Nu-metal fans have now became Metalcore fans. WELL DUH, when heavy metal was popular, MANY of the metal fans went to thrash, and after thrash many of them went to death. Now I am sure that those death fans still listen to thrash and heavy metal but they wanted to experience newer forms of metal because nothing can stay the same forever. People cant listen to the same thing for ever, I guarantee no one could stand to listen to one iron maiden song there entire life. In all iron maidens greatness there is no question that some one can listen to the same thing forever, because it would get boring. Exactly the same as Nu-metal and Metalcore, the Nu-metal fans went to Metalcore because Nu-metal was getting old. Nothing can stay the same with out evolving.

Think about it fellow Metalheads, except these new waves of metal styles and keep metal alive forever, because you and I both know that nothing can stay the same forever. Also remember that Thrash has other elements of non-metal (hardcore punk) and is considered true, but on the other hand you think that Nu-Metal and Metalcore cannot be true metal due to its elements of other genres, and that they went mainstream and therefore are considered un-true, but heavy metal went mainstream and that created all metal forth to come.
#2
You're not going to change the entire metal culture by having your own opinions, so just delete this thread.

Oh, and you can't spell.
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#3
What the ****??

So if I went from listening to Sublime to Cryptopsy does that make Sublime a key element in metal's history?

Dude, you just wrote a page of half-assed assumptions.

True metalheads should be hanging themselves if they said metal is dead. I don't know any true metalhead who says ________ metal is dead. Not one.

Most true metal has never had mainstream sucess. None have really had sucesss without changing/sacrificing/selling out.

I don't see any new forms of metal coming from Metalcore or Nu-Metal, so I'm not entirely seeing your point for this whole post. Its gonna get flamed, its gonna get closed, and that'll be the end of it.
#5
fuck, you again? your always making threads like these. are you gay? cuz i take it you LIKE anal rapings.
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Quote by deadskinmask
I think you should listen to Bodom_Shredder7.

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SevenLastWordsOfChrist
#6
Quote by LedZeppelin
You're not going to change the entire metal culture by having your own opinions, so just delete this thread.

Oh, and you can't spell.


+1.

#7
Nu metal is "pop-ish", simple (most cases) and to some people cheesy, angst driven lyrics, etc, etc, etc. That is why it is not excepted. I don't see why metal-core isn't accepted, but I can see where most people are coming from when they say it doesn't belong to the genre.
#8
nu-metal rose up, and died down. simple as that. it didnt branch off into a whole new revolutionary subgenre like heavy metal did with thrash. it WAS just a fad. plain and simple.
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Quote by deadskinmask
I think you should listen to Bodom_Shredder7.

Quote by xolax
Listen to Bodom_Shredder, he knows what hes talking about

Quote by Alucard II
Bodom Shredder was right

SevenLastWordsOfChrist
#9
Quote by LedZeppelin
You're not going to change the entire metal culture by having your own opinions, so just delete this thread.

Oh, and you can't spell.



what he said...

I hate how so much effort is put into catagorizing sub-genre's
#10
Quote by Bodom_Shredder7
nu-metal rose up, and died down. simple as that. it didnt branch off into a whole new revolutionary subgenre like heavy metal did with thrash. it WAS just a fad. plain and simple.

no heavy metal helped with key elements in thrash, but it also took harcore punk, and nu-metal has about 90% of fans in metalcore now.
#11
^Nu metal's fans were homeboys with nothing better to do. Limp Bizkit is not a key player in the music industry at this point. it was a fad. Metalcore has good bands with talent, whose fans are over 9 years old. But even so, it is not true metal music.


Oh and i'm UG's 14 year old metahead.....
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#12
Quote by MorbidAngel333
^not true.
Nu metal's fans were homeboys with nothing better to do. Limp Bizkit is not a key player in the music industry at this point. it was a fad. Metalcore has good bands with talent, whose fans are over 9 years old. But even so, it is not true metal music.

i am a nu-metal fan and i like all types of metal including morbid angel. listen to shadows fall and can u honestly tell me that not metal, that honestly makes me sad
#13
^ uh...yeah i can tell you Shadows Fall aren't metal.
Because their metalcore. and i know alot of people who would back me up on that one...
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#14
^^But metalcore is close enough to fad anyway. Metalcore is mostly a draw from hardcore(which means their borrowing from metal - not adding to it like thrash did) too, which is slowly replacing emo, which is still a fad.

:O
#15
Quote by MorbidAngel333
^ uh...yeah i can tell you Shadows Fall aren't metal.
Because their metalcore. and i know alot of people who would back me up on that one...

true, but sersosly i know alot of peopel that come in here each day and post about metalcore, and every 1 flames them, now have u ever stopped to think that those people might agree with me?
#18
Why do you continue to defend your point when nobody agrees with you? Close the thread.
Quote by HuckIt
My weirdest dream would have to be when I dreamed that I met this chick I really liked and wanted to practice sex, so I practiced on some guy I met at a gas station...that was pretty screwed up.
#19
no one is going to take you seriously, especially with writing like that.
The trouble with nude dancing is that not everything stops moving when the music does.

Last.fm
#20
Quote by LedZeppelin
Why do you continue to defend your point when nobody agrees with you? Close the thread.

Quote by 555slayer666
Nu metal is "pop-ish", simple (most cases) and to some people cheesy, angst driven lyrics, etc, etc, etc. That is why it is not excepted. I don't see why metal-core isn't accepted, but I can see where most people are coming from when they say it doesn't belong to the genre.

i see that one person agrees with me, to a point
#21
First of all, it's Accept, not except.

And I read the whole thing and you must be really proud of yourself to have written that. However, it is basic information that all metalheads know (how genres were formed that is). You bring nothing new to the table and you don't understand why genres aren't considered metal because you don't understand the music. Nu-metal and metalcore aren't metal, just accept it. It doesn't mean you can't like it and that it's no good.

And for the reference, Pantera had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with thrash.

Edit: Ah **** you're Canadian
Last edited by chemicalsolutio at Jun 7, 2006,
#22
Wow this is a dumb conversation... do yourselves a favor and listen to whatever you like and what you enjoy playing and stop trying to put labels on everything. Who gives a **** what genre its in.
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#24
Quote by GuitarGod610
It's ACCEPTANCE, not EXCEPTANCE

edit: damn, beat me to it
, thanks for NOT making a comment on the actual point
#25
Well, you see, when your spelling skills are at the level of a 6th grader, it kind of negates your already-lackluster arguments.
Quote by HuckIt
My weirdest dream would have to be when I dreamed that I met this chick I really liked and wanted to practice sex, so I practiced on some guy I met at a gas station...that was pretty screwed up.
#26
You're right about thrash being some sort of heavy metal and hardcore/punk fusion for some type of early bands. But bands like Slayer, Flames, Kreator had absolutely no hardcore/punk influences in their music and they were in the beginnings, so can't really say that your point is valid for that argument.

The 90% Nu-metal to metalcore thing is also wrong. Bands like Korn, Limpbizkit, Linkin park etc. appealed much more to rock fans than anyone else because nu-metal is not heavy/noisy/fast whereas metalcore is much more extreme (in a way) compared to nu-metal.
#27
Quote by chemicalsolutio
You're right about thrash being some sort of heavy metal and hardcore/punk fusion for some type of early bands. But bands like Slayer, Flames, Kreator had absolutely no hardcore/punk influences in their music and they were in the beginnings, so can't really say that your point is valid for that argument.

The 90% Nu-metal to metalcore thing is also wrong. Bands like Korn, Limpbizkit, Linkin park etc. appealed much more to rock fans than anyone else because nu-metal is not heavy/noisy/fast whereas metalcore is much more extreme (in a way) compared to nu-metal.

YOU ARE SERSOSLY TELLING ME THAT SLAYER HAD NO HARCORE PUNK INFLUENCES, SEROSLY, IF U THINK THAT ABOUT SLAYER, GO DIE
#28
Quote by l.MetalHead.l
YOU ARE SERSOSLY TELLING ME THAT SLAYER HAD NO HARCORE PUNK INFLUENCES, SEROSLY, IF U THINK THAT ABOUT SLAYER, GO DIE


Real mature comeback

However, according to wikipedia, you're right.


Slayer (along with Metallica, Anthrax, Megadeth and others) is often credited with creating American thrash metal by speeding up the sound of NWOBHM bands like Iron Maiden. Slayer also drew from hardcore punk influences like Minor Threat, Dead Kennedys and The Misfits;
#29
Oh yeah, Nu Metal and Metalcore will NEVER be accepted as true Metal. Just the way it goes IMO. If you want to follow your opinion, fine, then do so, but it's wrong.

Quote by l.MetalHead.l
YOU ARE SERSOSLY TELLING ME THAT SLAYER HAD NO HARCORE PUNK INFLUENCES, SEROSLY, IF U THINK THAT ABOUT SLAYER, GO DIE


Caps-unlocked!
#30
give me another 60 years. And if you're going to try to get your point across, you can try and be mature, prove me otherwise, lose the cap locks and spell properly.
#31
Quote by Tsunekuni
Real mature comeback

However, according to wikipedia, you're right.

and according to slayer themselves.
#32
Whoever says slayer has no punk influences is a ****ing idiot. Believe me, i would be hesitant to admit as well, but Jeff Hannerman and Kerry King were both punks who just wanted to go heavier and faster. if you've ever seen early pictures of them they look alot like cliche punks. They did a punk cover album....Slayer is to metal as the Ramones are to punk....including the fact that they have lots of similar sounding songs....
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#33
You bring no feasible arguement to the point you're attempting to make. I can respect what you're trying to do but you need to study up more on your facts.

Quote by Tsunekuni
^^But metalcore is close enough to fad anyway. Metalcore is mostly a draw from hardcore(which means their borrowing from metal - not adding to it like thrash did) too, which is slowly replacing emo, which is still a fad.

:O

#34
Quote by MorbidAngel333
Whoever says slayer has no punk influences is a ****ing idiot. Believe me, i would be hesitant to admit as well, but Jeff Hannerman and Kerry King were both punks who just wanted to go heavier and faster. if you've ever seen early pictures of them they look alot like cliche punks. They did a punk cover album....Slayer is to metal as the Ramones are to punk....including the fact that they have lots of similar sounding songs....

yay some one agrees with me on something
#35
You guys should stop reading off wikipedia and forget what Slayer said. They were influenced by it maybe, like all other bands are influenced by other forms of music. But the hardcore/punk influences are not conspicuous in Slayer's early albums, compared to other crossover bands.
#36
Look, buddy - Your arguments simply don't prove anything. In the end nobody cares. So why the fuck are we arguing about the validity of your futile assurances? Everything you try to prove is inconsequential to ANYTHING.
I've found Jesus
#37
Quote by Tsunekuni
^^But metalcore is close enough to fad anyway. Metalcore is mostly a draw from hardcore(which means their borrowing from metal - not adding to it like thrash did) too, which is slowly replacing emo, which is still a fad.

:O


I don't think metalcore is a fad. I do think it is probably going to die out soon though, because alot of the bands sound alike, and theres becoming less creativity. Emo wil also die out really soon because its basically becoming a joke, musically and socially, and metalcore or hardcore has too much of an anti-emo culture to replace it as a whole. The fans won't let that happen. All the hardcore kids i know ****ing hate emos.
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#38
Quote by MorbidAngel333
I don't think metalcore is a fad. I do think it is probably going to die out soon though, because alot of the bands sound alike, and theres becoming less creativity. Emo wil also die out really soon because its basically becoming a joke, musically and socially, and metalcore or hardcore has too much of an anti-emo culture to replace it as a whole. The fans won't let that happen. All the hardcore kids i know ****ing hate emos.


You speak the truth
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