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#1
Marshalls are known for good rock sounds, Fenders are known for good cleans.
I'll use specific examples but I'm at least a year away from buying an amp in the $800-1000 range and at least 2-3 years away from buying an amp/halfstack in the $2000 or more range so extensive research isn't necessary or anything.

How are they on the opposite ends?

How do Fender tube amps, namely the Deluxe Reverb Reissue, or even the Twin-Amp handle classic rock, either by themselves or with a distortion pedal like a Boss DS-1? Bands/artists like Jimi Hendrix, Rolling Stones, maybe some RHCP, Guns and Roses. Nothing too heavy like heavy metal.


How do high end Marshall amps/stacks (ignoring the solid state stuff), such as something like this http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-JCM-2000-Triple-Super-Lead-100-and-1960A-Package?sku=482802
handle cleans?
If one were to buy a Marshall like that mostly for classic rock, distorted sounds etc.. how do they handle cleans? Are they very compareable to Fender's amps in clean sounds?
#2
Marshalls generally have good cleans. Not Fendery shimmer or anything, but still very nice. That said, the DSL is supposed to be better than the TSL.

Fender can do classic rock quite well, especially when you crank 'em up.
#3
^ +1

Except I'd like to add that with a touch of reverb, Marshall (can) have amazing cleans.

IMO I'd say A Marshall does clean better than a Fender does distortion.
#4
What about their AVT series? How is it?

Like when you're comparing amps for under $1000
who's better at covering both areas?
#5
If you were going to compare amps you'd have to compare an all-tube marshall, like the DSL, rather than an AVT.

It depends on how much you're spending.. hmm..

You can pick off DSL heads for cheap on ebay, you can also snag 2x12 cabs. You could probably get a DSL+2x12 cab for under a grand, which wouldnt be bad. I'd take that over any fender in the price range.
#7
So a Fender Deluxe Reverb would do me fine for classic rock/distortion, probably with a DS-1 Distortion pedal?

In not much time spent researching at all.. (I found this good website for explanations/videos http://www.sweetwater.com/feature/marshall/) I think my future goal will to someday own a TSL100 w/1960A half stack. It has a third channel that is for "Fender-ish" clean so that's good for me.

Man these Marshalls.. they get you to lust on just the name and "stack" kinda thing.

What does adding a second cabinet/4 more 12" speakers do to the sound anyway?
#8
I just bought a jcm 600 all tube 2x12 combo, and I was more impressed with the clean than the overdrive channel. With a little reverb, the sound cuts through really well, and feels like it's going through the whole room. The all tube fenders that I have tried haven't really impressed me in either area.

Good luck finding an amp mate.. don't forget that you don't have to get a jcm 2000 or 800, as they have released a lot of ofther less well known gems that can often cost less.


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#9
Quote by xxgenocide98xx


IMO I'd say A Marshall does clean better than a Fender does distortion.

+1
#10
^+2. My JMC900 has amzing cleans, i wnat a chorus to make them even better. Also JCM800's and JCM900 kicks 2000's butt. Dave Navarro used a JMC900 Dual Reverb while in RHCP and those cleans were great.

Also stay away from distortion pedals on tube amps. You take away the nice tube disotrtion and just use SS distortion, id say get an overdrive pedal.
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#11
Quote by xxgenocide98xx
IMO I'd say A Marshall does clean better than a Fender does distortion.


agreed.

Quote by Danno13
AVTs are alright, but not for the prices they charge!


nah, i tried my avt the other day, and I've downgraded it from "alright if it cost what the MG's cost" to "shit.



right, any offers?

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#12
Quote by Gabel
^+2. My JMC900 has amzing cleans, i wnat a chorus to make them even better. Also JCM800's and JCM900 kicks 2000's butt. Dave Navarro used a JMC900 Dual Reverb while in RHCP and those cleans were great.

Also stay away from distortion pedals on tube amps. You take away the nice tube disotrtion and just use SS distortion, id say get an overdrive pedal.


I duno, I thought about it for a long while and the cleans on the JCM2000, at least the DSL, were amazing. The reverb kicked copious amounts of ass. The DSL is definitely underrated..
#13
Quote by Dave_Mc
nah, i tried my avt the other day, and I've downgraded it from "alright if it cost what the MG's cost" to "shit.

LOL. I hope to try an AVT one day to judge for myself, but I pretty much hate the MG.
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#14
well i played some stuff on a fender blues deluxe in the store through an epi sg, and it sounded pretty nice...doors stuff mostly, but the distortion was at like 3-5 i believe.
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#15
IMO a Fender has great distortion for what I play most of the time...it just depends what kind of stuff you're planning to use it for.

That said, if you were a hair metal fan, you'd obviously buy the Marshall for the distortion, but a Classic rock fan might still buy the Fender for the distortion.
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#16
but how is using a distortion pedal on a fender? since I can't really use it at super high volumes..

and I'd like an adjustable amount of distortion with the pedal
#17
Quote by amazingdm
but how is using a distortion pedal on a fender? since I can't really use it at super high volumes..

and I'd like an adjustable amount of distortion with the pedal


don't use a distortion pedal...it'll jack your tone all up...get an overdrive if the amp isn't enough for you.

buy a jcm800 or 900 combo off ebay for 500-800 bucks and use the extra cash to get an attenouter so you can crank it and it still be quiet enough for house use.
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The best pickups for emo are no pickups at all...


Gear:

1996 Les Paul Classic w/ Alnico II's
Marshall Jubilee 2550
Avatar 2x12..V30 and G12H
Vox V847 Wah
Assorted pedals
#19
I would hardly say they are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Fender is on a far side...but marshall is in the middle somewhere, with the really high gainers on the other side.

Marshall clean does not compare with, say a twin reverb...at all.

It all depends on what you play/want.

If you play mostly clean, then I would go fender.
#20
Quote by ChickenStu
I would hardly say they are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Fender is on a far side...but marshall is in the middle somewhere, with the really high gainers on the other side.

Marshall clean does not compare with, say a twin reverb...at all.

It all depends on what you play/want.

If you play mostly clean, then I would go fender.


thats not at all what he was asking.

hes asking how fenders known for cleans do distortion and how marshalls known for distortion do cleans.
Quote by deg0ey
The best pickups for emo are no pickups at all...


Gear:

1996 Les Paul Classic w/ Alnico II's
Marshall Jubilee 2550
Avatar 2x12..V30 and G12H
Vox V847 Wah
Assorted pedals
#21
Yup

perhaps the meaning of my question is really, how good are they overall in their respective price ranges ($800-1000 for Fenders, $2000-25000 for Marshalls)
#22
Quote by amazingdm
Yup

perhaps the meaning of my question is really, how good are they overall in their respective price ranges ($800-1000 for Fenders, $2000-25000 for Marshalls)


the best marshalls are the 800 and 900's and can be had for under a grand on ebay.
Quote by deg0ey
The best pickups for emo are no pickups at all...


Gear:

1996 Les Paul Classic w/ Alnico II's
Marshall Jubilee 2550
Avatar 2x12..V30 and G12H
Vox V847 Wah
Assorted pedals
#23
would the 2000's (I think that's what they are) TSL100's still be high quality and considered top of the line?
#24
Quote by amazingdm
would the 2000's (I think that's what they are) TSL100's still be high quality and considered top of the line?


i hear there good amps...the dsl is also a great amp. i'd get a 50 watt unlesss your wanting to play a studium soon. 100 would be overkill.
Quote by deg0ey
The best pickups for emo are no pickups at all...


Gear:

1996 Les Paul Classic w/ Alnico II's
Marshall Jubilee 2550
Avatar 2x12..V30 and G12H
Vox V847 Wah
Assorted pedals
#25
The distortion on Marshalls are much more versatile, but I'd say the cleans on a Fender pretty much own a Marshall. I was thinking about getting a Marshall DSL50 half stack for my distortion and later buying a Fender Dual Reverb for my cleans. Best of both worlds, IMO. If you want the pinnacle of Marshall tone, go for a JCM800 of some sort off of Ebay. It has great distortion, but I've heard very mixed opinions on its cleans.
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#26
With Marshall's like a half stack TSL 100 watt amp.. you don't have to turn it anywhere near high volumes (I'm talking about when you don't have the VPR on, I'm talking full 100 watts) to get an overdrive/distorted sound right? Like.. that's what all the distortion/gain/drive channels are for?
#27
Quote by Dave_Mc

right, any offers?




How many watts is it?

I'll give you $109 for it, and then you can go buy an MG15CD and enjoy the slammin' overdrive!
#28
Quote by That_Pink_Queen
IMO a Fender has great distortion for what I play most of the time...it just depends what kind of stuff you're planning to use it for.

That said, if you were a hair metal fan, you'd obviously buy the Marshall for the distortion, but a Classic rock fan might still buy the Fender for the distortion.


agreed. EDIT: assuming you're talking about the power tube overdrive, not the overdrive channels which suck majorly.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#29
Why not get an AC30 and have the best of both worlds? I know that's not the question, but it seems like he's looking for a happy medium, which is the AC30 for sure.
#30
i would say get the marshall for what you need

that being said i would get the fender...ive never tried the 65 deluxe reverb, but last week i played a 1973 twin (that was selling for 1000$ canadian)

the twin sounded amazing clean, and fenders have amazing overdrive for classic rock, just get an attenuator.

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#31
The 900's are the best marshalls I've ever tried (800, 900, DSL and TSL included). The clean channel is amazing and the distortion has SO much more character than the 2000's do.
#32
Quote by thetearsibleed
i would say get the marshall for what you need

that being said i would get the fender...ive never tried the 65 deluxe reverb, but last week i played a 1973 twin (that was selling for 1000$ canadian)

the twin sounded amazing clean, and fenders have amazing overdrive for classic rock, just get an attenuator.




Actually the new Fender Twins come with a 1/4 power button.
I might just stick with one of these for a while.. get my distortion/overdrive through a pedal

still a dream to have a half stack though
#33
Quote by amazingdm
Actually the new Fender Twins come with a 1/4 power button.
I might just stick with one of these for a while.. get my distortion/overdrive through a pedal

still a dream to have a half stack though


bear in mind 1/4 power isn't 1/4 volume.

and power tube distortion will pwn pedal distortion (for classic rock, at least).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#35
^ well, roughly, and all things being equal (i.e. same amp, same speakers, same components, assuming one was available in the various different wattages), you normally need 10 times the wattage to double the volume- i.e. a 10 watt amp is half as loud as 100.

so to get one quarter the volume of a 100 watter (that's what the twin is, right?) you'd need to get it down to about 1 watt. I think. And very roughly.

Of course, it's possible that fender have named it "1/4 power" meaning "1/4 volume" in which case I might be talking crap, lol.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
nah I think it's definately 25 watts.. so in otherwords it'll still be about half as loud as 100 watts.. which is actually a good thing
#37
^But still god-awful loud. You'll still have trouble getting overdrive even at 1/4 power. Twins are insanely loud and stay clean for a long time.
#38
people bash marshall cleans because they've never actually owned one.

take it from someone who actually has a jcm800...i get great cleans in the low input with no breakup at all even with the volume on 10.
Quote by deg0ey
The best pickups for emo are no pickups at all...


Gear:

1996 Les Paul Classic w/ Alnico II's
Marshall Jubilee 2550
Avatar 2x12..V30 and G12H
Vox V847 Wah
Assorted pedals
#39
^ how is that possible, unless your strumming like a pussy
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#40
heh as opposed to the people who take their hand and strum and make their hand go all the way to the floor? that's lame
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