#1
OK for those that do not know I am, by music business standards, an old geezer. At the ripe old age of 35 I can recall a time without modelers, whn we had to walk 20 miles in the snow to a gig, uphill, and we liked it.

Seriously, some of you younger guys may not appreciate just how far things have come. Back in the ancient times called the late 80s, I recall getting my first Digitech rack mount processor, the wonder that was calledthe DSP128. Oh my God this thing was considered high tech at the time, now I have an alarm clock or cell phone which is much more sophisticated. With this wonder I was able to actually store my delay settings!! The flange on it was wicked!! Digital reverb, well, most of us know reverb is one of the few effects whose quality actually got better when the digital varieties emerged!! Later, when an obscure amp company called ADA released a tube preamp controlled by this new MIDI technology, and I got one, I thought I had died and goneto heaven.

As for recording, I remember getting a Yamaha MT100 II 4 track cassette recorder. Man that was the bomb!!!! The joys of track bouncing on that thing. All the while I was tripping out on my ability to video record gigs with this thing called the camcorder that was becoming commonplace.

Learning new tunes was fun too. Many of us actually had to listen to music to learn it. I know, I know, you say "what?!?!?! figure out how to play songs without diagrams to show me where to put my fingers!!!??! Surely you jest!!!" but believe me, it's true. A thing called tab was getting popular and the guitar mags would put out a few songs a month, but no way was I stooping to that!!!

We also had something like the internet, but it was a little different. You see, back then, instead of encoding information as 1's and 0's and beaming it all over the planet instantly, we had these collections of information stored on paper and protected not by passwords and 128 bit SSL or Kerberos data encryption but by hard cover. They called them books and I still have a few hundred lining the walls of my home.

Recording on the marvelous little 4 track (which I had to save for ever to buy) was accomplished by micing an amp. Today you got gizmos like modelers and such, I even said back then "Gee, if someone could make a pedal or something that I could just plug into my 4 track and record with that would be AWESOME" (that was a buzz word back then). Alesis and Boss had put out the newest high tech toys like the Dr Rhythm series drum machines and the Alesis 16 something or other.

How did you present your music to the world? Well, first you found a band. Back then, you had to actually know how to play guitar to get in a band. (well, as a guitarist you did, I suppose drummers and such didn't need to know how to play the guitar!) You would gig and gig and hope the local radio was kind enough to help out. You would paste flyers all over town and put them on cars and such at concerts.

Concerts, what huge events they were back in the day. Iron Maiden with their 175000 watt PA and a giant Eddie lumbering around on stage. Ozzy and his whacky antics, he actually used to be able to speak something intelligeable!!! Legendary, biggerthan life acts would come in and just kill at shows. Things exploding, people moshing, stuff happening.

Email? Soundclick? Ultimate Guitar? Spaivxx? What the hell are those things? Can the younger memebers of our forum even imaging not having an email account? Or having to learn your favorite songs by transcribing them manually? You know I wore out a video tape of "Crossroads" learning every note Vai played.

Oh man, Vai. I remember the buzz as that he was never going to fill VH's shoes playing with Roth. I remember Yankee Rose and how the non guitarists were so amazed at what a wah and some bending can do. I know, I was one of them!!! It was one of the albums (Eat em and Smile) that inspired me to play. I remeber when there was no "Passion and Warfare" (that and Operation Mindcrime (Queensryche) were my first 2 CD's). I remember dating a chick on the side who worked at the "record" store just so I could get Passion and Warfare a day before release!!

CD's!!! Holy crap, they looked pretty and, what?!? What the hell do you mean you aint gotta rewind/fast forward it to the spot you want!!??!?

Now, wake up, get a latte, fire up the Mac (you dont want to even hear about 80's PCs) or PC, plug your Variax into a Pod or whatever, download a new backing track, or sequence on yourself, hit record on Protools whatever software you use, and go. By lunch time, you have your new song(s) circulating the globe via the net. By dinner, your band, you and the guys you skipped school to get high with, are on your way to fame and fortune.

What a great time to be young and about to start a career in music.
__________________
#2
Maybe you didnt have this, but today's music is hard because there is MUSIC STEALING OVER THE INTERNET.

The worst thing that happened in music's history.

Tell me, was there more music stealing in the 1980's than the 2000's????


But I agree with you... But technology brought great things like Rap, Hip-Hop, Emos... Nah just joking!!!!
Last edited by Justice_Fish at Jun 14, 2006,
#3
What was the point in me reading that?
I enjoy a hearty roast dinner...


...for breakfast.
#4
'Awesome' never died. Stealing music is wrong, so very very wrong. Why don't people realise that when they download music they say 'hey, I like this band, i'll rob from them' ?
#6
Quote by TyphoidSpider
'Awesome' never died. Stealing music is wrong, so very very wrong. Why don't people realise that when they download music they say 'hey, I like this band, i'll rob from them' ?


I download the music until i can afford the actual album
TEEP!!! Oiiiiiiieeeeeeeyyy!!!!!!
#7
Okay...

So aside from a rant/venting post... What was the purpose of that?
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#8
Quote by Resiliance
Okay...

So aside from a rant/venting post... What was the purpose of that?
I think he's some kind of old guitar player who wants to share his wisdom with us. He just doesn't know that the best way to do this is by posting this stuff in UG Contribution.
#9
Heh, I actually enjoyed that.

It's called technological singularity though Sir, it's always going to advance - and when it does, people are always going to use it.
#10
.....and?

The question should be has technology changed music for the better or worse?
#11
IT was just a commentary, I did not realize that many of you would not really get the point. The point was simply to point out how easy things have gotten these days. Anyhow, I am also enjoying the benefits of the advancements in technology. I was unaware, due he the banality in most of the posts in this thread, that there was actually supposed to be a set purpose in posting. I shall refrain from sharing my 20 years of experience further if it pleases you guys.

And yes, I am "some old player". I have toured with bands, had a decent career playing metal for a while, taght music for a living for a while, etc....

Now at the ripe old age of 35 I have a fusion band and I enjoy all the same technological advancements that the kiddies do. However I just once in a while am dumbfounded when I think of what I could have achieved 20 years ago with all the same advantages that you guys havetoday.
Last edited by spaivxx at Jun 15, 2006,
#12
I'm interested in debating my above point

it is easy, but i think a lot of music nowadays sounds the same because of the advances you speak of. However, i think it's a good thing that people can now get garageband or whatever, and make music at home easily and cheaply. before, it was really the preserve of the more wealthy. i mean i'm sure you remember how much a 4 track cost! and the first samplers? i mean damn they were expensive!!!!
#13
I'm an even older geezer than the threadstarter geezer.

Basically you had to learn a song by listening to it and trying to figure it out.
If you were lucky you'd find someone who knew a lick or two from a song and
could show it to you.

The "songbooks", if you could find one for a tune you really wanted to learn, were
crap. At best they had the chord progression. But note-for-note tab ... forget
about it.

The advances are a double-edged sword. You had to work a LOT harder learning
a song. That made things a lot more frustrating and error prone and slower, yet
it required you to develop at least a basic skill set.

Now, you can get exact note for note tabs to just about anything. That's great
because you really can learn a song much much quicker and it will sound exactly
like its supposed to (if you can play it that is). But now, you get this whole
generation of players that don't even understand the most basic concepts of
scales or playing in time to a tempo. I mean BASIC stuff. Not a clue! And I
am just jaw-dropped flabbergasted at some of the questions I see from people
who have been playing long enough to know better.
#14
Hot Jazz and swing musicians used to say bop ruined jazz. **** happens things grow.
UG Blues Mafia
Founding Members: Forklifterer, Steve Cropper, Crzyrckgtrst28, and TNfootballfan62


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#15
hell when i started i was broke as he11 and had to learn everything by ear (no money for tabs), i was in the same boat you were in, i was 18 (7 years ago) before i got my first 4 track and had to save for 2 months to get my first (and only) digital 8 track, but truly it was a glorious day (i still use it, i think i spent about 3 hours tuning in the absolute perfect tone for me)..... yeah, i'm with you, it is pretty easy to get a song on the internet and yeah the ideal of actually knowing how to play the guitar has kinda gone the direction of the dodo..... luckily, we have places like UG where people want to learn how to be proficient at their instrument!
#16
Quote by z4twenny
luckily, we have places like UG where people want to learn how to be proficient at their instrument!


Good lord! How long have you been on UG?

My observation is that the age average is probably around 15. By FAR, the vast
majority of advice I've seen is either wrong or unhelpful and shows a complete
lack in understanding of how to approach learning the guitar. And, I would also
say, a vast majority of the questions show a total lack of wanting to do the work
needed to "learn to be proficient". The UG mainstreamer is looking for a quick
fix with the minimal work. I really think it's more about impressing friends and
having status than it is about a genuine desire to learn the guitar.

Of course, I'm generalizing quite a bit, and there's a number of exceptions, but
that's my overall take on UG.

I find UG very entertaining and I enjoy helping out with questions or trying to
correct really flat out bogus stuff. But, as a place to go for help? unh unh.

The Guitar Principles forum is a place where people REALLY have a desire to
learn the instrument. Over there, the tone, questions and answers are night &
day compared to here. But, they DO tend to be a bit on the technique-nazi
side over there. But that's ok with me.
#17
^ yes what you say is true, for a decent lot most of the kids on here just want their 4 chord punk pop BS, but there are a few exceptions i've noticed and there are actually a couple really informed people on here if you know who to ask..... so it's kinda a give and take.... where the Guitar Principles forum, i'd be way interested in it. and btw i've been here about 4 months.
#18
^ well, if you're to proud to take technique nazi advice you can find out what happened to the technique jews...they quit because they were working badly and getting worse results.
#19
Perhaps the Guitar Principles site is where I should be posting, I will check it out. Edge I agree, you are right about the age and mentality ofthis (and many other) site. But that is the beauty of the net, there are dozens of sites and it isnt too hard to find one to fit into. I am a member of several, this one doesn't seem particularly suited to me, no insult intended to anyone here.

But!! I am not whining about how hard it was learning music by ear back in the day. I am not complaining about the lack of technology back in the day. I really was not even commenting on how lazy and unskilled 90% of today's guitarists (both pro and amature) are. These are all great and valid points, but I really wasn't alluding to any of them.

My point was to simply ask the reader to stop and realize what awesome opportunities lie before them and for them to realize how even half a generation ago it simply was not like this. I have posted this similiar thread on several sites and was quite surprised at the negative responses it garnered here. But I take no offense. In the last two days I have noticed that this site is geared more towards the teen/beginner audience and that simply is not an audience that is capable of appreciating much of what I offer.

It's the same as when I teach. I do not teach beginners. Most of my students either have or are currently making a living playing music, and they wish to delve into the more arcane aspects of the art. I specialize in helping good guitarists get better. It's not that I am a snob, I just lack whatever skills are required to help students with little to no musical background. The fault lies with me, I am not really a skilled teacher....
Last edited by spaivxx at Jun 15, 2006,
#20
www.guitarprinciples.com

go to the forums. The main one is "Principled Players".

It's basically moderated by "Ney Mello". He's a bonafide world class guitarist
and teacher. I have mixed feelings about his overall delivery in terms of
replies (I think he could use a bit of humble pie), but he certainly knows his
stuff as well as many others there do.

Not as active or entertaining as UG, but it's a very good place for serious
answers and I think the Guitar Principles material is right on and what any good
teacher should be teaching.

Oh, sign up for the free weekly email newsletter. It often has great stuff in it.
#21
Its amazing how he claims to be one of 3 players who simulateously invented economy picking... and they all turned out famous, wow!

And then he misquote gambale on it at the same time... tut tut.

Give me a year with my good ol' fashioned alternate and i'll give him humble steak.

(wishful thinking)
#22
Quote by Freepower
Its amazing how he claims to be one of 3 players who simulateously invented economy picking... and they all turned out famous, wow!

And then he misquote gambale on it at the same time... tut tut.

Give me a year with my good ol' fashioned alternate and i'll give him humble steak.

(wishful thinking)


haha Yeah, he does seem to repeat that quite a bit doesn't he?
I think he means well, but he seems to also be a bit cynical about the music
industry because he's gifted but pretty much an unknown. sour grapes.
#23
Ah well, I think stories like these are interesting I'm always interested in what a fellow musician has to say, especially if they are about music.
The "Popped Collar" Award(Sexiest)
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#24
Quote by edg
haha Yeah, he does seem to repeat that quite a bit doesn't he?
I think he means well, but he seems to also be a bit cynical about the music
industry because he's gifted but pretty much an unknown. sour grapes.


I certainly agree with the meaning well stuff. I think he's just a nice guy who's let it all get to their head. I'm not so sure i dig this 100$ DVD thing though. Frankly, it seems like a cheap scheme. And that annoys me - i wouldnt mind paying that if it was John McLaughlin or Shawn Lane or Rusty Cooley going that in depth, but when its someone who has released some incredibly sloppy stuff...i dunno.
#25
Has he released it yet? I do want to possibly check it out. $100 is pretty steep,
bit I think it's a 2 DVD set.

Also you can be a great player and a lousy teacher. I've got some a few DVD's--
Jimmy Bruno, Frank Gambale, John McLaughlin -- and while they cover stuff that's
interesting, they basically amount to "Here, just play this like I do." which is
not what you want for a technique study.
#26
OK for those that do not know I am, by music business standards, an old geezer. At the ripe old age of 35 I can recall a time without modelers, whn we had to walk 20 miles in the snow to a gig, uphill, and we liked it.


they didn't have cars back then??
#27
Quote by Justice_Fish
Maybe you didnt have this, but today's music is hard because there is MUSIC STEALING OVER THE INTERNET.

The worst thing that happened in music's history.


i disagree....

the internet is an extremely useful resource for new bands, and relatively established bands likewise...

offering free downloads of songs create hype for bands...and get the band exposure which otherwise would never have happened....

and yes illegal downloads do create loss for the music industry...but probably not to the extent tht you think...a bands earnings mostly come from tours and merchandise from tours etc... and if i was in a big band...i wouldnt mind if people where downloading songs...i know if the band was really like fans would buy the albums anyway...and even if they didnt...as long as i recieved enough money to live a comfortable, happy life...id be fine with that

but i suppose everyone aint me...
#28
Quote by Justice_Fish
Maybe you didnt have this, but today's music is hard because there is MUSIC STEALING OVER THE INTERNET.

The worst thing that happened in music's history

I could try to argue with you that people steal because CDs are far overpriced, because the record label needs to jack that price up to pay for all the middle men and stuff. I still legally purchase albums of bands I like, but I do it via iTunes, cause it's going on my iPod anyway. And bands get crap from CD sales, the big money is actually in touring. So as long as they're exposed I bet they don't care.
#29
Technology didn't ruin music, the people who over indulged in it did. I believe technology helps music but should be used in moderation. That's why I don't like to "Pro-Tools" everything or say "we'll fix it in editing" Take these software programs that have incredible samples. I live in a small area where not many people play instruments. How hard would it have been 20 years ago to find musicians if I can't find them now? Now I can just load up the software program and make a decent enough demo to submit to people without having it sound like cheesy GM MIDI.

I think the biggest downfall of the music industry came because of this theory:

I once read that the mid-70's- mid 80's were the best time to be a growing musician because you have 5x as many nightclubs to play at and 10x as many people who would come. This can be credited to the baby boom generation. There were 10x as many 18-30 year olds back then who wanted to see live entertainment and now we don't have that, so that means less places to play, less money, etc.
I was once heavily prominent on these forums from 2004-2007, let's see how long I can stay now that I'm back.
#30
Quote by edg
Also you can be a great player and a lousy teacher. I've got some a few DVD's--
Jimmy Bruno, Frank Gambale, John McLaughlin -- and while they cover stuff that's
interesting, they basically amount to "Here, just play this like I do." which is
not what you want for a technique study.


Or huge sets of exercises. I would take a look into "Melodic Phrasing" (Scott Henderson) and "Melodic Control" by Marty Friedman for some actual help making music though...
#31
^Add to that "Anyone Can Improvise" by Jamey Aebersold.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#33
Your views kind of swayed throughout that post, and I wasnt too sure whether you were happy for us or regretting us being born in this horrible era. I myself havent really contemplated that, so Ill just be happy whatever.

Quote by Robbie n strat
In the changing rooms we'd all jump around so our dicks and balls bounced all over the place, which we found hilarious.



Little children should be felt, not heard.
#34
Quote by Justice_Fish
Maybe you didnt have this, but today's music is hard because there is MUSIC STEALING OVER THE INTERNET.

The worst thing that happened in music's history.


Or the best? as the majority of the mainstream music industry sucks, a bunch of buisnessmen explointing musicians just for money. If they can't find a way adapt their practices to suit it then thats their problem.

Anyway, these days a lot of things seem to be going in all directions these days. People still want analog pedals and more tube amps, while others are having a blast with ProTools and all that stuff. Various gerne revivals (garage rock or whatever they've gotten up to now) as wall as new gernes slowly developing and morphing into each other.
Last edited by seljer at Jun 18, 2006,
#35
i think that some technology is good, but there are always times when old tried and true methods will prevail. im an engineering student, so i consider myself pretty computer literate, and i do like a lot of these music programs. i love fruity loops and things like guitar pro that let me compose my music and hear it as i work. i find it really cool to be able to manipulate these sounds on my computer, and find ways to do it tastefully. and then you see my playing setup of gutiar -> tubescreamer -> tube amp. not exactly the most modern set up. so i really see technology as being great on one hand, but pretty much useless in other aspects.

i like to think of it this way: all of this new technology is really just another instrument. you have to learn how to use it correctly and know what sounds good where. i mean a guitarist knows that it probably wont sound good to throw some high speed tapping licks into an acoustic song, just as a person who knows this technology well knows not to overshadow the music with synths and effects they can so easily use. just because you can do something, doesnt always mean you should. or atleast that my view on technology.
#36
Quote by notoriousnumber
Your views kind of swayed throughout that post, and I wasnt too sure whether you were happy for us or regretting us being born in this horrible era. I myself havent really contemplated that, so Ill just be happy whatever.




Actually, it must be some ineptness on my part in my writing because my views have not swayed at all. I never for an instant stated that I dislike technology, I work in a studio with tons of technology all around me. I also do some IT work, again hands all up in the technology. I just feel the current generation are a bit spoiled by it, too many easy shortcuts. Am I a little envious? Sure, but I guess every generation feels that way to a degree when looking upon all the advantages that their younger counterparts are given. I mena some guy who made his career during the 70's would have looked at the old 4 track I used in the late 80's as a marvel of technology.
#37
Quote by spaivxx
I just feel the current generation are a bit spoiled by it, too many easy shortcuts.


You could say that of all technological advances, that we all all taking a shortcut; but to what? Might we be wanting to totally scam people by influencing them by showing all our gear? Might we be aspiring for fame and glory, wealth and publicity? Or might we be simply wanting to produce better quality music without fusing the entire city.

By all means, I am not ranting at you. Your generation was spoilt by the advances made in the 50s and 60s, so therefore your point rather ecompasses all human beings throughout all advances. In no way are we in particular spoilt, we are just utilising the provided material, as did many other people in our position.

Quote by Robbie n strat
In the changing rooms we'd all jump around so our dicks and balls bounced all over the place, which we found hilarious.



Little children should be felt, not heard.
#38
Quote by notoriousnumber
You could say that of all technological advances, that we all all taking a shortcut; but to what? Might we be wanting to totally scam people by influencing them by showing all our gear? Might we be aspiring for fame and glory, wealth and publicity? Or might we be simply wanting to produce better quality music without fusing the entire city.

By all means, I am not ranting at you. Your generation was spoilt by the advances made in the 50s and 60s, so therefore your point rather ecompasses all human beings throughout all advances. In no way are we in particular spoilt, we are just utilising the provided material, as did many other people in our position.



Good point, however I would point out that I did not start playing until the late 80's so my generation was spoiled by advances made not only in the 50's and 60's, but the 70's and 80's as well.

My only gripe with all the kids having such easy access to recording and such is thatthe vast majority of them are using it to unleash garbage on the world.
#39
^Absolutely, there is far too much crap in Mainsteam music these days, thats why we resort to Undergroud

Quote by Robbie n strat
In the changing rooms we'd all jump around so our dicks and balls bounced all over the place, which we found hilarious.



Little children should be felt, not heard.
#40
But think of how much GOOD music is to come of it the next few years, decades, centuries...
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.