In the major scale, are there different 'boxes' like there are in the pentatonic? Are the different modes (Ionian etc...) basically the same thing, ,or are there certain times you play the different modes?
Thanks,
--Stage9
Let me try to clarify my question:

I understand that there are the 7 different modes, but am very confused about what they are consisted of. I know that you use the variations of the WWHWWWH pattern to determine the notes in the scale. I guess my question is this: To find the notes in say, a G Phrygian, would I have to go through and find out all of the new notes on the fret board using the patterns, or can I use the same "finger arrangements" as say a B Phrygian and just move it to have a root note of G?

Have I missed something important in my learning of the major scale and theory?

Thanks,
--stage9
Quote by stage9
Let me try to clarify my question: I understand that there are the 7 different modes, but am very confused about what they are consisted of. I know that you use the variations of the WWHWWWH pattern to determine the notes in the scale. I guess my question is this: To find the notes in say, a G Phrygian, would I have to go through and find out all of the new notes on the fret board using the patterns, or can I use the same "finger arrangements" as say a B Phrygian and just move it to have a root note of G? Have I missed something important in my learning of the major scale and theory? Thanks, --stage9
I've taught scales and modes for many years, and in my experience the best and easiest way to approach them is to start with a one-octave major scale, say G-to-G:

G A B C D E F# G

You probably already know that the major scale is also known as the Ionian mode. If you didn't, you do now. That first example was the G Ionian.

Now, simply build a one-octave mode on each of the remaining tones, like this:

A B C D E F# G A - A Dorian

B C D E F# G A B - B Phrygian

C D E F# G A B C - C Lydian

D E F# G A B C D - D Mixolydian

E F# G A B C D E - E Aeolian

F# G A B C D E F# - F# Locrian

Practice these modes until they're under your fingers and, more importantly, in your ears.

Now, when you're comfortable, build the phrygian mode on the G you were asking about. If you've done your practicing diligently, it should be a straightforward process to transfer the sound and feel of the B phrygian to its new starting point on G.

Continue practicing these modes, starting on different tones, all over your fingerboard. Before you know it, they'll be second nature.

I hope this makes sense. It worked for me and it's working for my students, but you might respond better to another approach. What are some ways you other teachers use?
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
thanks, ill take that approach. now, when I transfer the mode to a different key, will it be the same fingering like with the pentatonic scale or different?
Quote by stage9
thanks, ill take that approach. now, when I transfer the mode to a different key, will it be the same fingering like with the pentatonic scale or different?
Which is more logical, that it will be the same fingering up or down a few frets, or that it will be completely different?

It will be the same fingering.
I thought it would be I just wasnt sure. Now, when I figure out the fingering for the G Ionian, should I just go all the way down the fretboard for each string to figure it out, or is there a way to figure out what the fingering is for the Ionian, then Dorian, etc...? If I go through the fretboard figuring it out, how do I know when one mode ends and another begins? The page I have been learning from is http://www.theorylessons.com/modepos.html, and I want to figure out the modes the way they are shown seperated on the page, so I can learn them one at a time.

Thanks,
--stage9
Ok, I think I reifined my question down to one simple one. If I was to build the G major scale and find the notes all up and down the fretboard using wwhwwwh, would all of those notes be the G Ionian scale, or are the other modes contained within? If so, how do I know where they are?

Thanks,
--stage9
Quote by stage9
Ok, I think I reifined my question down to one simple one. If I was to build the G major scale and find the notes all up and down the fretboard using wwhwwwh, would all of those notes be the G Ionian scale, or are the other modes contained within? If so, how do I know where they are? Thanks, --stage9
To identify all of the notes in the G major scale is to identify all of the G major modal notes as well.

In other words, yes, all of the G major diatonic modes are contained within the G major scale. You determine where they are in exactly the way you determined where the G major / G Ionian notes were. The difference is, you name these modes according to the starting tone:

G A B C D E F# G - G Ionian

A B C D E F# G A - A Dorian

B C D E F# G A B - B Phrygian

C D E F# G A B C - C Lydian

D E F# G A B C D - D Mixolydian

E F# G A B C D E - E Aeolian

F# G A B C D E F# - F# Locrian

Our mutual friend bangoodcharlote will possibly come back with his "underlying chord" method of identifying the mode (and by the way bangoodcharlote, as I think about it, I must confess it makes some sense), but that is not what you're asking, Stage9. I believe you're asking about learning and practicing modes in a scalar way. If indeed that is what you're asking, what I just posted above is trustworthy.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
Ok I think I get it. So with the notes that I find in the G major scale, I can apply the patterns

Ionian - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Dorian - 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7

etc...

to find the notes in the other modes, correct?

Thanks,
--stage9

And yeah, that is exactly what I am wanting to do.
Last edited by stage9 at Jun 19, 2006,
Quote by stage9
Ok I think I get it. So with the notes that I find in the G major scale, I can apply the patterns

Ionian - 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Dorian - 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7

etc...

to find the notes in the other modes, correct?
I think you're working a little too hard here, stage9, but you do have the concept. In the heat of battle it's a little tough to remember 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 (at least for me it is). I suggest you simply practice the major scale until it flows at a subconscious level. Then, beginning with the Dorian mode (A B C D E F# G A in our G major example), practice until it works for you on a subconscious level. Before long, the major scale and its associated modes will be second nature to you, all over the fingerboard. When you get there, it's time to move to the next level.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.