#1
when playing for example in the key of A
would you have to be playing over a Bmi chord to use the B dorian scale?
thanks in advance
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#3
Even if you play your 7th position B Dorian scale (kind of like the 7th fret pentatonic with the extra notes) over an A chord, you are playing A Ionian. So yes, but probably not in the way you think. If you play B C# D E F# G# A over a B minor chord, you are playing B Dorian. If you play B C# D E F# G# A over an A major chord, you are playing A Ionian. Don't think of this in box patterns. This kind of theory applies to all music. Other instruments don't have these box scale shapes.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Jun 18, 2006,
#4
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Even if you play your 7th position B Dorian scale (kind of like the 7th fret pentatonic with the extra notes) over an A chord, you are playing A Ionian. So yes, but probably not in the way you think. If you play B C# D E F# G# A over a B minor chord, you are playing B Dorian. If you play B C# D E F# G# A over an A major chord, you are playing A Aeolian. Don't think of this in box patterns. This kind of theory applies to all music. Other instruments don't have these box scale shapes.

wouldnt b c# d e f# g# a Be A dorian
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#6
Quote by spaminator101
wouldnt b c# d e f# g# a Be A dorian
No. Those are the notes in a A major scale, so if you start on B, it is B Dorian.

Quote by Johnljones7443
^No.

A Dorian = A B C D E F# G A - I think, lol.

Correct me if I'm wrong
That's right.
#7
I've read this sentence at least 10 times and cannot make heads or tails of it...
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Even if you play your 7th position B Dorian scale (kind of like the 7th fret pentatonic with the extra notes) over an A chord, you are playing A Ionian.
The A Ionian mode and the A major scale are one and the same thing. How has the B Dorian mode, played over an A major chord, become the A Ionian mode? This makes no sense at all to me.
If you play B C# D E F# G# A over a B minor chord, you are playing B Dorian.
True. But then there's this...
If you play B C# D E F# G# A over an A major chord, you are playing A Aeolian.
First this B Dorian played over an A chord was the A Ionian. This isn't true, but then neither is B Dorian played over an A chord the A Aeolian. The A Aeolian consists of the tones A B C D E F G A. The tones F#, C# and G# are missing in action.

Can anyone explain what bangoodcharlote was trying to say here?
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#8
Quote by gpb0216
I've read this sentence at least 10 times and cannot make heads or tails of it...
The A Ionian mode and the A major scale are one and the same thing. How has the B Dorian mode, played over an A major chord, become the A Ionian mode? This makes no sense at all to me.
True. But then there's this...
First this B Dorian played over an A chord was the A Ionian. This isn't true, but then neither is B Dorian played over an A chord the A Aeolian. The A Aeolian consists of the tones A B C D E F G A. The tones F#, C# and G# are missing in action.

Can anyone explain what bangoodcharlote was trying to say here?
Yes, in fact Bangoodcharlote can explain that.

Look at the attached powertab. That is the 7th fret B Dorian scale. If the rhythm guitarist is playing an A major chord while you play some licks out of that scale position, it is A Ionian. It is NOT B Dorian. If the rhythm player switches to F#m while you continue your lick from that scale, you are now playing F# Aeolian. You are only playing B Dorian when the Rhythm player plays Bm.


Regarding the other thing, I wasn't thinking when I typed that. I meant A Ionian, not A Aeolian. Thank you for finding that.
Attachments:
B Dorian Scale.zip
#9
I can't get PowerTab to open your file. It doesn't matter because, in any case, if the scale/mode starts and ends on B, it's a B-something scale or mode. You and I are talking about two different things...
If the rhythm guitarist is playing an A major chord while you play some licks out of that scale position, it is A Ionian. It is NOT B Dorian. If the rhythm player switches to F#m while you continue your lick from that scale, you are now playing F# Aeolian. You are only playing B Dorian when the Rhythm player plays Bm.
Here you're simply describing using A major tones to build a solo over A major diatonic chords. I thought you were talking about naming and using modes.

Again, if it starts on B, it's a B-something scale or mode. If it starts on F#, it's an F#-something scale or mode.

I think your terminology is a little awkward and would confuse me in a performance situation, but if it makes sense to you and the people you regularly play with then good for you.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
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For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#10
Quote by gpb0216
Again, if it starts on B, it's a B-something scale or mode. If it starts on F#, it's an F#-something scale or mode.
That's incorrect. It doesn't matter what note the scale fingering starts on, it just matters what the rhythm guy is doing.
#11
Quote by bangoodcharlote
That's incorrect. It doesn't matter what note the scale fingering starts on, it just matters what the rhythm guy is doing.
What you've just said is in direct opposition to everything I've ever read and studied, both at the U.S. Armed Forces School of Music and in college-level theory courses. Would you mind providing a reference for this statement?
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#12
Quote by gpb0216
What you've just said is in direct opposition to everything I've ever read and studied, both at the U.S. Armed Forces School of Music and in college-level theory courses. Would you mind providing a reference for this statement?
Dude, box positions aren't important. They only exist on guitar. Last time I checked, this was MUSIC theory, not guitar theory.
#13
bangoodcharlote is correct, the notes of B Dorian and A Ionian are the same notes, in the same order, it's just you look at B Dorian as starting and ending on B, and A Ionian starting and ending on A. While you could argue that the change in hand position required to play B Dorian box shape compared to A Ionian box shape would change the notes emphasised, bangoodcharlote is saying to forget the box shapes that most people play scales in, (because it makes people think in box shapes, and they can't think of it any other way then). This means that the rhythm chord will directly affect how you hear the scale, so whether you're playing the B Dorian or A Ionian scale, over an A major chord it will sound like you're playing A Ionian, but if the rhythm player switches to a B minor, the tonal center will shift and you'll hear B Dorian. The explanation I've just typed isn't very correct but I'm at work and I don't have time to put it all down properly.
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