#1
Hey,

I need a bit of help with my major scales in triads/seventh chords. This is sort of a why question, that is, I dont need to know how to do something, but instead why i am doing something that im doing.

So, the harmonized major scale in triads goes Major, Minor, Minor, Major, Major, Minor, Diminished, Major (Octave). That is, those are the chords on a given major scale progression. However, when those chords go from triads to seventh chords, the scale goes Major7, Minor7, Minor7, Major7, Dominant7, Minor7, Minor7flat5, Major7 (Octave).

I was wondering why the 5th and 7th degrees change in makeup - from a Major to Dominant and a diminished to Minor7flat5. Theres probably some logical explanation, but im just missing it right now, and the book im using really doesnt say
Quote by Macank
^^ strat? i want to get a stratocaster sound though!!


Fender Classic 60's Strat
Yamaha AES 720 (On the way!!!)
Ibanez GAX 30
Traynor YCV 40
Boss DS-1
EHX Big Muff
Ibanez Weeping Demon
Ibanez CF-7
Ibanez DE-7
#2
You start on the root note of the chord and count to the 3rd, 5th, and 7th tones. Look at this:

B C D E F G A B-That is B Locrian, the 7th mode of C major. If you start on B and go up to the 3rd tones, you get D. B to D is a minor third. Up to the fifth tone gives you F. B to F is a diminished fifth. Up to the seventh tone gives you A. B to A is a a flat seventh.


Does this answer your question? (You can say no.)
#3
Ugg, not really. I understand intervals, im just wondering why the 5th degree wouldnt just be a major7 as opposed to a diminished.
Quote by Macank
^^ strat? i want to get a stratocaster sound though!!


Fender Classic 60's Strat
Yamaha AES 720 (On the way!!!)
Ibanez GAX 30
Traynor YCV 40
Boss DS-1
EHX Big Muff
Ibanez Weeping Demon
Ibanez CF-7
Ibanez DE-7
#4
Quote by kyle_katarn3
Ugg, not really. I understand intervals, im just wondering why the 5th degree wouldnt just be a major7 as opposed to a diminished.
The fifth and seventh are two different things. Which are you talking about?
#6
Ok, what im saying is that when you do a major scale in triads, the progression is always Major, Minor, Minor, Major, Major, Minor, Diminished, Major (Octave) for example, the C Major Scale in triads would be C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdiminished, C.

However, when you do that same scale in 7th chords, it changes to Cmaj7, Dm7. Em7, Fmaj7, G7, Am7, Bm7flat5 , Cmaj 7.

What Im wondering is why the G chord is now a G dominant 7 as opposed to a G major 7
Quote by Macank
^^ strat? i want to get a stratocaster sound though!!


Fender Classic 60's Strat
Yamaha AES 720 (On the way!!!)
Ibanez GAX 30
Traynor YCV 40
Boss DS-1
EHX Big Muff
Ibanez Weeping Demon
Ibanez CF-7
Ibanez DE-7
#8
the G has a b7 instead of a major triad with a regular 7.


here's the chord formula for the 1st


1 3 5 7

and here's the formula for the 5th

1 3 5 b7
#9
dammit, how did i miss that. I think my piano teacher of 8 years is probably going to hunt me down and beat me if he ever sees this. I think i just expected there to be some big complicated reason, and i overlooked it totally. Thanks a lot guys, im going to hang my head in shame now.
Quote by Macank
^^ strat? i want to get a stratocaster sound though!!


Fender Classic 60's Strat
Yamaha AES 720 (On the way!!!)
Ibanez GAX 30
Traynor YCV 40
Boss DS-1
EHX Big Muff
Ibanez Weeping Demon
Ibanez CF-7
Ibanez DE-7
#10
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/chords/what_chords_are_in_what_key_and_why.html

I posted this a long time ago and saved it.

Well, let's first approach the concept of modes. Modes are formed by making a different degree of the scale into the root note. Thusly the interval structure of the scale in relation to the root note changes, giving us different sounds.

Let's take a common example, the Dorian mode. The dorian mode is built from the 2nd degree of the major (Ionian) scale.


Let's use the C major scale as an example.

Key of Cmaj: C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C D E F?
C Ionian     [b]C[/b] D E F G A B [b]C[/b]
D Dorian       [b]D[/b] E F G A B C [b]D[/b]
Bold notes are root notes of each scale.


Now, since D is our root, we have a different intervallic structure since our scale is not D major (D E F# G A B C# D).


 Degrees: 1 2 3  4 5 6 7  1
 D scale: D E F# G A B C# D

D Dorian: D E F  G A B C  D
 Degrees: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 1


You should be able to see how the F# was flatted down to F natural and C# down to C natural. That is why the Dorian mode's formula is 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 1. Using a similar method you can extrapolate the formulas for the other modes of the major scale.


Here's a quick chart of the intervals of each mode:
    Ionian - 1  2  3  4  5  6  7 1
    Dorian - 1  2 b3  4  5  6 b7 1
  Phrygian - 1 b2 b3  4  5 b6 b7 1
    Lydian - 1  2  3 #4  5  6  7 1
Mixolydian - 1  2  3  4  5  6 b7 1
   Aeolian - 1  2 b3  4  5 b6 b6 1
   Locrian - 1 b2 b3  4 b5 b6 b7 1


I don't know how much you know, so this may have been review

Now, the chords in any key are found in an extremely similar way - you're using a different scale degree as a root note. Sound familiar? I've illustrated this fully in http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/less...ey_and_why.html .

Now, take a look at the mode structures and compare them to the chords in each key.

The first chord is I, and it is major. 1 3 5. Note that the Ionian mode has the degrees 1 3 5 as well. (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1)

The second chord is ii, and it is minor. 1 b3 5. Note that the Dorian mode (2nd mode) has 1 b3 5 in it as well. (1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 1)

The third chord is iii, and it is minor. 1 b3 5. Note that the Phrygian mode (3rd mode) has 1 b3 5 in it as well. (1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1)

The fourth chord is IV, and it is major. 1 3 5. Note that the Lydian mode (4th mode) has 1 3 5 in it as well. (1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 1)

The fifth chord is V, and it is major. 1 3 5. Note that the Mixolydian mode (5th mode) has 1 3 5 in it as well. (1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 1)

The sixth chord is vi, and it is minor. 1 b3 5. Note that the Aeolian mode (6th mode) has 1 b3 5 in it as well. (1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1)

The seventh chord is vii°, and it is diminished. 1 b3 b5. Note that the Locrian mode (7nd mode) has 1 b3 b5 in it as well. (1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 1)

See how they match up? In effect, you could say this:
I = Ionian
ii = Dorian
iii = Phrygian
IV = Lydian
V = Mixolydian
vi = Aeolian
vii° = Locrian

-C_Fluff