#1
I read that new lesson on UG about progressive rock and it got me thinking about time signatures...
Is there any point in using 8/8 or 2/2 if there the same as 4/4?
#2
They really arent the same.

the upper number indicates how many beats there are in a bar or measure;

the lower number indicates the note value which represents ONE beat (the "beat unit").
e -------15^1-
b ----13-------
g -14----------
Last edited by a Peyote Coyote at Jun 20, 2006,
#3
Actually, I'm taking about this in my next lesson...

There are many ways to misuse time signatures.  There are the pointless time signatures, like 2/2 and 8/8 and 16/16 and 32/32.  No matter how many times you do the math, they all equal 4/4, no matter what.  Think about it.

8/8= 8 quarter notes
1 eighth note= 0.5 quarter notes
0.5 x 8= 4
8/8= 4 quarter notes
and 4 quarter notes make up a measure of 4/4
And I'm left handed.
#4
They can be used to convey tempo tho. like 2/2 should seem faster than 8/8
e -------15^1-
b ----13-------
g -14----------
#5
no, they would be the same

The point is, they all have the same amount of quarter notes in each measure, which has nothing to do with tempo
And I'm left handed.
#7
But 2/2 is a valid time signature: Cut time, no? Yes, 8/8 is pointless as 8 eigth notes in a single 4/4 measure would be the same thing in both signatures. However, in 2/2, 8 eigth notes in a measure would be "equal" to 8 sixteenth notes in 2/4.
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#8
Quote by a Peyote Coyote
They can be used to convey tempo tho. like 2/2 should seem faster than 8/8


No your wrong. 2/2 means cut time.
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Last edited by Reverb X at Jun 20, 2006,
#9
why cant people who dont know what they are talking about stop posting wrong information? 2/2 is not the same as 4/4 and neither is 8/8. just because you can fit the same number of quarter notes in a measure does not mean that they are the same. if you think that, you are flat out wrong. 2/2 only has two beats, 4/4 has four beats and 8/8 has 8 beats. really people, they are not the same.
#10
2/2 has a diffrent feel than 4/4, as does 8/8 has a diffrent feel.
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#11
OMG you people are stupid. TIME SIGNATURES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH FEEL!!!
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#12
They are not the same! They each have different beats. You are confusing beats with pulse. All three have the same pulse, but as jof said, 2/2 has 2 beats, 4/4 has 4, and 8/8 has 8. They are similar sounding but not the same!

Quote by Reverb X
OMG you people are stupid. TIME SIGNATURES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH FEEL!!!

What? That's the dumbest thing I've heard today (and I just saw Da Vinci Code). They have everything to do with feel! Can you reproduce a 4/4 passage in 6/8 without compromise? No. They have everything to do with feel. You don't know what you're talking about.
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#13
Tell me why most march beats are in 2/2 then
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#14
Quote by Reverb X
OMG you people are stupid. TIME SIGNATURES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH FEEL!!!


Yeah they do.
Thats why some songs are written in 6/8 rather than 3/4. Its the way the notes are grouped.
And I'm left handed.
#15
Quote by HellBent1337
Tell me why most march beats are in 2/2 then


Maybe you're thinking of 2/4? A lot of marches are written in 2/4
And I'm left handed.
#16
Quote by blu9999
Yeah they do.
Thats why some songs are written in 6/8 rather than 3/4. Its the way the notes are grouped.


Wrong again. Let me give you an example of some common feels.

Swing
Ballad
Latin
Reggae

When a song is written in 6/8 or 3/4 it is telling you what the TIME of the song is. TIME does not mean FEEL!

Check yourself.
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#17
Quote by Reverb X
Man you have no idea.

2/2 means thats there are 2 Minims in the measure which is equal to 4 Crotchets.

2/4 means that there are 2 Crotchet beats in a measure.

Check yourself.

Yes but the minims get ONE beat. The point is not that the minims are equal to 2 crochets each but that they are acting as one beat rather than 2, which you have in 4/4. Crochet in 2/2 = 1 beat. Crochet in 4/4 = 2 beats. Get it?

(EDIT: Removed rude remark.)
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#18
no ****, but it has to do with emphesis on certain beats, hense, feel of the music
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#19
Quote by blu9999
Maybe you're thinking of 2/4? A lot of marches are written in 2/4


yea, sry
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#20
Quote by Reverb X
Man you have no idea.

2/2 means thats there are 2 Minims in the measure which is equal to 4 Crotchets.

2/4 means that there are 2 Crotchet beats in a measure.

Check yourself.

you my friend, are a complete an utter idiot. and i really dont often resort to insulting people on the internet, but you really deserve it. ok, ill prove it that 4/4 and 8/8 are not the same. all we have to do is look at beat groupings. s= strong, w= weak, an m= semi strong. ill even line it up for you.
4/4 = s   w   m   w
8/8 = s w m w w m w w or something similar like that could be in 8/8

the semi strong beat in 4/4 doesnt even line up with an emphasized beat in 8/8, which gives a completly different sound and feel.

next thing you are going to say is that 3/4 is the same as 6/8, even though one is simple time and the other is compound. you really have no clue, so either read and learn, or just shut up.
#21
Hahaha you are so stupid. Minims get one beat?? hahahahahahaha you are a fool with no clue.

Let me make a diagram for you.

Here is one bar with note lengths explained:

1 2 3 4
| O | Semi-Breve(equal to 2 Minim lengths, 4 crotchet lengs, 8 quaver lengths, 16 semi-quaver lengths

1 2 3 4
| o o | 2 Minims

1 2 3 4
| o o o o | 4 Crotchets

1 2 3 4
| o o o o o o o o | 8 quavers

Do you get it now???
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#23
Quote by Reverb X
Hahaha you are so stupid. Minims get one beat??

Yes you moron! I'm tired of being nice so here it is plainly for you. Time signatures refer to beats in a measure and what note value gets one beat. The bottom 2 in 2/2 refers to minims, whereas the bottom 4 in 4/4 refers to crochets. Do YOU get it yet? Where'd you learn about time signatures?
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#24
I never said 4/4 was the same as 8/8. Crackhead
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#25
-.-
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#26
Quote by Reverb X
I never said 4/4 was the same as 8/8. Crackhead

no, but you said that you would never use 2/2 or 8/8. which is wrong as they are not the same and have different feels. you dont have to agree with me, but then you would just be wrong.
#27
What I meant to say was it wasnt that commonly used. With the One minim gets one beat thing. Im saying that each bar has 4 beats meaning crotchet beats. Therefore one minim taking 2 beats of one measure.
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#28
Quote by Reverb X
What I meant to say was it wasnt that commonly used. With the One minim gets one beat thing. Im saying that each bar has 4 beats meaning crotchet beats. Therefore one minim taking 2 beats of one measure.

You're still confused, obviously. 2/2 has 2 beats in one measure. One minim does not complete a measure of 2/2. As far as it not being commonly used... Ever heard of cut time or march time? Also, where exactly did you say anything remotely close to it not being commonly used other than the above quoted post?
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#29
I know that one minim doesnt complete a measure. I also know 2/2 means cut time. Im just saying that 1 minim takes 2 beats of one 4/4 measure. lol
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#30
Quote by Reverb X
I know that one minim doesnt complete a measure. I also know 2/2 means cut time. Im just saying that 1 minim takes 2 beats of one 4/4 measure. lol

Then why didn't you ever specify that you were talking about just 4/4 when the entire thread was about the difference between 2/2, 4/4, and 8/8?
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#31
Quote by jof1029
why cant people who dont know what they are talking about stop posting wrong information? 2/2 is not the same as 4/4 and neither is 8/8. just because you can fit the same number of quarter notes in a measure does not mean that they are the same. if you think that, you are flat out wrong. 2/2 only has two beats, 4/4 has four beats and 8/8 has 8 beats. really people, they are not the same.


thank you