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#1
i have poured over the threads on UG and i have but only 1 question left about the use of modes so here it goes:


Lets say i'm in the key of C major (keep thangs simple) and i wanted to throw some modes in a solo. Obviously the main scale to use would be C ionian, yes? OK...so could i use the D dorian mode (or any of the other modes Of C major) and remain in key?

thanks much appreciated
#3
It would depend on your chord progression. I'll give you an example using a simple I(C) - IV(F) - V(G) progression in C Major.


Key of Cmaj: 

[b]C[/b] Ionian (I) Over the Cmaj chord. 
D Dorian      
E Phrygian       
[b]F[/b] Lydian (IV) Over the Fmaj chord.          
[b]G[/b] Mixolydian (V) Over the Gmaj chord.         
A Aeolian              
B Locrian


Most people would play those modes over those chords to keep in the key of C.

Bear in mind though, you can play other modes... F Ionian over the F chord and so forth.

This and this might be a good read.
#4
flavour is totally upto personal preference ofcourse, but to answer your first question YES!!!!
C Ionian is the major scale, so wright out the notes in the scale which are all perfect cuz there's no sharps in c major so the order is ofcourse
C Ionian
D Dorian
E Phrygian
F Lydian
G Mixolydian
A Aeolian
B Locrian
begin again...

^sorry, didn't realise...
#5
ok thanks people that really helped but now i have a follow on question.
im mainly play metal music, and in metal music people tend to use root/5th chords. So how could i get the most out of each mode by simply playing root/5th chords underneath a solo, because i read somewhere that in order to get the most use out of modes you need to play chords (underneath) built from that particular mode.
#6
I've read that in order to get the scale to sound the most like its characteristic happy, sad or whatever, that you should take the mode say F lydian F G A B C D E F and take out notes and make it a penatonic(penta=5 and tonic=scale degree) scale, F A B C E F. I've read, on UG somwhere, this I haven't tried it out. I know that doesn't answer anything I just thought it might help.

For you solo question I'd just have whoever is playing under the solo play in that mode and change it up and not just play power chords. Try something like a couple of chords then a riff in a certain mode, thats what I do. Or you could just not have them actually play chords.
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Last edited by FFFDFEFRFKFFF at Jun 21, 2006,
#7
Quote by Slash Jr.
You could also use A Aeolian. But that will change things cuz then you would have C Locrian, D Ionian, etc. That's what I use whenever I play in C. I just like the minor feel.


Maybe I'm wrong though. Can someone tell me if I'm right??


I dont understand?
#8
Quote by FFFDFEFRFKFFF
I've read that in order to get the scale to sound the most like its characteristic happy, sad or whatever, that you should take the mode say F lydian F G A B C D E F and take out notes and make it a penatonic(penta=5 and tonic=scale degree) scale, F A B C E F. I've read, on UG somwhere, this I haven't tried it out. I know that doesn't answer anything I just thought it might help..


I don't think that's what the threadstarter wanted... as that would only... *can't think of the word*... stabilize the sound. Taking out the tension creating notes would make his solo sound more stable - which is why the penatonic scale works so well.

I'm still quite unsure of what you're asking threadstarter, but I think it's along the lines of ''What notes of each mode do I emphasize to bring out the sound of that particular mode?''... so I'll go ahead and answer it. In all the modes you're going to want to emphasize the root and third, because that will determine the tonality of them - major or minor. But there are other notes you're going to emphasize if you really want their individuality to stand out.

Ionian - 4
Dorian - 6
Phrygian - b2
Lydian - #4
Mixolydian - b7
Aeolian - b6

Each mode does have its own sound, but it's up to you to bring it out.
#9
so if i'm in the key of C major and the progression underneath is I(C) - IV(F) - V(G), then the most obvious thing to play would be :

C Ionian (I) Over the Cmaj chord.
F Lydian (IV) Over the Fmaj chord.
G Mixolydian (V) Over the Gmaj chord.

Does this mean that i cant play any of the other modes from C major and make it sound right?
#10
for example,

why couldn't i play this:


C Ionian (I) Over the Cmaj chord.
A Aeolian (IV) Over the Fmaj chord.
B Locrian (V) Over the Gmaj chord.
#12
Quote by Luke666
I dont understand?


Nevermind, what I said doesn't make sense. It was kinda stupid..
#13
the mode you are playing in depends on the chord, even if you play in a say B phrygian shape and the chord is an e minor you will still be playing E aeolian. it all depends on the chord you play because that will be the tonal center and that is what makes the mode work correctly. like that tonal axis center thingy satch does... theres another thread just up about that... but yeah basically you play an e minor chord, now you can play any minor mode over that as long as it's in E, so E aeolian, E phrygian, E dorian, locrian works too i think but thats an odd one... and of course the dominant ones like phrygian dominant etc... its pretty easy really :]
Last edited by Godderz_24 at Jun 21, 2006,
#14
Quote by Godderz_24
the mode you are playing in depends on the chord, even if you play in a say B phrygian shape and the chord is an e minor you will still be playing E aeolian. it all depends on the chord you play because that will be the tonal center and that is what makes the mode work correctly. like that tonal axis center thingy satch does... theres another thread just up about that... but yeah basically you play an e minor chord, now you can play any minor mode over that as long as it's in E, so E aeolian, E phrygian, E dorian, locrian works too i think but thats an odd one... and of course the dominant ones like phrygian dominant etc... its pretty easy really :]



sorry everyone, I'm even more confused now than i was before lol. Arrg i need help fom the start
#15
If you play any combination of C D E F G A B over a C major chord, you are playing C Ionian.

If you want to change the flavor, you sould try other C major modes. You could play C Lydian or C Mixolydian over that C major chord to get a more exotic and unusual sound.
#16
Quote by bangoodcharlote
If you play any combination of C D E F G A B over a C major chord, you are playing C Ionian.

If you want to change the flavor, you sould try other C major modes. You could play C Lydian or C Mixolydian over that C major chord to get a more exotic and unusual sound.


but wouldn't that be using the pitch axis thoery
#19
Quote by bangoodcharlote
If you play any combination of C D E F G A B over a C major chord, you are playing C Ionian.

If you want to change the flavor, you sould try other C major modes. You could play C Lydian or C Mixolydian over that C major chord to get a more exotic and unusual sound.



Aye that's the other way you can mix things up... Instead of sticking to the relative modes of C Ionian, which would essentially give the same sound (ok using the different box shapes would give slightly different note emphasis but if you concentrate enough on what you're playing you can overcome those differences) you could play C mixolydian instead, which is almost exactly the same as C Ionian, the difference being the b7 in mixolydian (making the C mixolydian scale C D E F G A Bb C). This would work over the C major chord of your progression, as you're still using the 3 notes that make up the major chord, but it would give a different sound than using Ionian. One of my favourites to use over various chord progressions (works better with some than others) For example over a C major chord is C D E F G Ab Bb C, its the 5th mode (don't know the specific name) of the melodic minor scale, if I remember the theory correctly.
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#21
Use the edit button.

Quote by Luke666
explain from the start as simply as you can please lol
If you play any combination of C D E F G A B over a C major chord, you are playing C Ionian. It is only when you play another chord that you get the sound of the different mode (C D E F G A B over D minor is D Dorian). SO to answer your original question, you could throw in licks from scale fingerings that would generally be considered D Dorian, E Phrygian and such and remain in C major and it will sound like C Ionian.


Now, let's say that you don't want that C Ionain sound over your C major chord. You could try the two other Major modes with C as the root. Play C D E F# G A B over C major. That sounds kind of cool. It is C Lydian. You are going out of key, but that's perfectably acceptable if what you play sounds good. Now try C D E F G A Bb over C major. That gives a cool blues sound. Again, it is technically out of key, but if it sounds good, who cares?
#22
So It all depeneds on the chord underneath that determines what the mode is right?

And i'll use the edit button from now on lol

so am i correct if i say that If i play "C D E F G A B" over say a Bminor chord then I am playing in B Locrian right?
#23
Quote by Luke666
So It all depeneds on the chord underneath that determines what the mode is right?

And i'll use the edit button from now on lol

so am i correct if i say that If i play "C D E F G A B" over say a Bminor chord then I am playing in B Locrian right?
That's incorrect. B Locrian is a diminished scale. It is not minor. It would have to be B diminished.


So change B minor to B Diminished and you are correct.
#24
Quote by bangoodcharlote
That's incorrect. B Locrian is a diminished scale. It is not minor. It would have to be B diminished.


So change B minor to B Diminished and you are correct.


ok thanks but i thought Locrian was a minor scale? so does that mean that i couldn't play the B Locrian over a B5?
#25
Quote by Luke666
ok thanks but i thought Locrian was a minor scale? so does that mean that i couldn't play the B Locrian over a B5?
No, look at the intervals: 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7, B C D E F G A. B5 contain B and F# The F in the Locrian sale would clash with the F# in the power chord.


Though you could get away with it if you use it as a combination of Phrygian and Blues.


Mess around with it, but be careful of that F!
#26
So It all depeneds on the chord underneath that determines what the mode is right?

BGC perhaps you could give me another short demonstration this time using more than 1 mode
#27
Quote by Luke666
So It all depeneds on the chord underneath that determines what the mode is right?
Assume that you play a simple little lick that contains C D G B E. If you play D minor, that lick is D Dorian. If you play G Major, the lick is G mixolydian.

Assuming that the lead or melody or whatever remains the same, yes.


Here's another example:

You're playing a lick that goes C G B D F G. At a glance that looks like C major. Play that over G major and you're playing G mixolydian. Play that over E minor and you're playing E Phrygian.

Get it?
#28
ok thanks this is awesome!! You a re really helping me now. Ok so perhaps you could do a kirk hammett type demonstration using root / 5th chords underneath..try this in the key of Eminor just to mix things up so that i dont stay in C major for ever lol
#29
Quote by Luke666
ok thanks this is awesome!! You a re really helping me now. Ok so perhaps you could do a kirk hammett type demonstration using root / 5th chords underneath..try this in the key of Eminor just to mix things up so that i dont stay in C major for ever lol
I'll do some powertab stuff in a few minutes. I'll edit this post and add the attachment. Get powertab here if you don't have it.


Remember, we have to do it in G major, not E minor. You don't talk about modes of the natural minor scale.
#31
Ahhh, here it is...the powertab!
Edit: So of course I forget to attach it.
Edit 2: Here is is again.
Attachments:
Mode Thing.zip
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Jun 22, 2006,
#34
Quote by Luke666
thankyou BGC, you are a theory book! I wish i had your knowledge
Sigged.

Quote by Luke666
yo BGC, the power tab isn't working? I downloaded the power tab software and extracted the mode thing but it wont seem to open?
Find some kind of unzipping software.
#35
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Sigged.

Find some kind of unzipping software.


I unzipped it fine but powertab wont open the file for some reason? try and send me the file but don't put it in a .rar file or a .zip file...
just attach the actual powertab file...it might work
#36
Quote by Luke666
I unzipped it fine but powertab wont open the file for some reason? try and send me the file but don't put it in a .rar file or a .zip file...
just attach the actual powertab file...it might work
I can only attach it as a zip file.


This is odd. It works fine for me, but several other people have said that they couldn't open my powertab attachments.
#39
ermmm, the problem is you are sending me a shortcut to the file, send me file not a shortcut to the file. thats probbalbly why people cant open the files you send them lol.

thanks
#40
modes are complicated as **** ! this thread has confused me totally.. it's like you can use anything over anything!
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