#1
Alright first of all, is the diatonic scale the same as the major scale? I've looked all over and can't seem to find whether it is or not, but the positions that I've seen are usually just the ionian mode.

I know this is an old question. but I'm not really sure where to go with scales next. I know the modes, the 5 pentatonic positions, most of the blues scale positions, and I am currently working on harmonic minor and and melodic minor. Is there anymore scales I should know? symmetrical, whole tone, half tone, those are some I've heard of but they dont seem very important relative to other scales.

And the other thing is, when I look at threads and stuff people act like once you know one position, for example ionian, you should be able to easily figure out the rest of the modes yourself. Now I know how to do that, but it would take me awhile. Am I missing something about knowing the fret board really well? what do I need to improve my knowledge considering where all the notes are and figuring things out as far as music theory and scale structure? I feel like I'm missing something or am just stupid but I'm otherwise a fairly intelligent person. Any advice?
#2
A diatonic scale is a type of scale

Diatonic: a scale containing seven notes...

the major scale is a scale ie...C D E F G A B C

I think..
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+diatonic&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

V----------------------------------------------------WRONG------------------------------------------V

I also thing you need to brush up a lot on theory... you know it practically but you're weak with your theory word knowledge... ie whole tone is not a scale its an interval.

^----------------------------------------------------WRONG------------------------------------------^

As far the last bit, modes aren't a strong point of mine but I would suggest somethiing a lot of people forget: it's not what modes you know and what you dont, it's you ability to use them practicly... ie i could be able to name eevery note in every mode but i might not be able to make use of them because i havent practiced. By the sounds of thing you know enough theory to be sorted i most occasions... I'd elaborate in practice before learning mroe scales

Quote by quinny1089
^there is a whole tone scale


That just shows how stupid I am then lol, I won't post again in fear of me confusing noobies like meself.. lol
Last edited by matth05 at Jun 25, 2006,
#4
A diatonic scale is any seven note scale. The major scale is a diatonic scale, as are all of its modes, but the diatonic scale is not the major scale.

You should learn the modes of the harmonic and melodic minor. Those other scales (whole half, whole tone, half whole) aren't really as important, but it's good to know things.

You should be able to figure things out just by finding the notes. Even if it takes you a long time to do this, you should be able to do it with some time. What they all mean is that if you're given E major, E F# G# A B C# D#, you should be able to say that the modes of E major are E Ionian, F# Dorian, G# Phrygian, A Lydian, B Mixolydian, C# Aeolian, and D# Locrian. If you understand modes, you should be able to do that.

Quote by quinny1089
^there is a whole tone scale
Yes, but a whole tone is an interval.
#5
yeah a good thing to work on is doing all the scales and modes you can do
and then while you're doing it say the names of the notes you're playing

c d e f g a b c etc for c major as you're playing it
it'll get you to know the notes on the fretboard and where they are
#6
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Yes, but a whole tone is an interval.


Yes, it is an interval but there is a whole tone scale.
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#7
Quote by bangoodcharlote

Yes, but a whole tone is an interval.


i never said it wasnt....

all i said is that it is a scale
#8
Once you have the modes of the major scale down you should (as bgc said) learn the modes of the harmonic minor and melodic minor...i would personally start with the melodic minor as it is easier to memorize the names of those modes because those scales only differ by a minor third. The wholte tone scales are also important to know and they can actually be pretty easy to memorize just remember:

The whole tone- half tone scale(w-h) switches off whole and half steps (so it would go w-h-w-h-w etc. easy!) and is made up of 8-notes ( not including the octave) and also remember that its tonic chord is a FULL diminished 7th

so to sum it up: w-h alternates whole steps and half steps and its tonic chord is a dim7
(you can also think of this scale as the 8-note diminished scale)

For the h-w scale it just alternates again but this time its HALF step TTHEN whole step
the tonic chord for this scale is a plain old dominant 7th chord(just like the mixolydian mode) and you can just think of this scale as the 8-note dominiant

Now you can use BOTH of these scales together but this goes alot deeper so ill just put in brief: If you solo out on the 8-note diminished scale--one thing you could do is instead of starting on the root and soloing over its tonic chord you could actually go to the second note of that scale and solo using a dominant 7th

the same of course goes for the 8-note dominiant


sorry if that was bad explaining but those are very cool scales to use
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#9
Ok I'm not real clear on the symmetrical scales. From what I can gather there is Whole tone, half-whole, whole-half, and augmented? I'm not exactly clear on how these scales fit together or anything.
#10
Quote by FlyF1402
Ok I'm not real clear on the symmetrical scales. From what I can gather there is Whole tone, half-whole, whole-half, and augmented? I'm not exactly clear on how these scales fit together or anything.
Whole Tone is just a bunch of whole tones: -0-2-4-6-8-10-12-

Whole Half starts on a note, goes up a whole step, goes up a half step, goes up a whole step and so on: -0-2-3-5-6-8-9-10-12-

Half Whole starts on a note, goes up a half step, goes up a whole step, goes up a half step and so on: -0-1-3-4-6-7-9-10-12-
#11
Ok that makes sense, but what about the augmented patterns? and how do the different patterns relate to each other as far as modal theory goes. like do the half whole, and whole half scales repeat one after the other up the neck?
#12
you guys were almost right in answering the definition of what a diatonic scale is. It is actually a scale in which only two interval classes are employed in moving from one note to the next. In the case of our major minor diatonic system, the two classes are whole step and half step. However, these tend to produce seven tone scales if derived from our 12 tone chromatic scale.

Before any of you jump my case and say "but what about the harmonic minor and it's augmented 2nd?" Well, harmonic minor is not a true diatonic scale in and of itself. It is a modifiacation of a diatonic scale that was devised in order to provide the monor key with a much needed V7 chord of it's own.