#1
Okay so im back, at least my internet anyway. All the crits I owe I can now actually pay back too. Consider this piece me toying with english, and its structures. Here goes.

-x-
Khizennia Voda

Dearly beloved, between the grasping webs
where my fingers lie, you said there our love shall hold,
forever imbedded between pre-printed palms
where my thoughts belie, you said there a pulse shall last,
hopelessly condemned between invasion and defeat;
where my breaths subside, you said there our touch shall pry
candidly forced between slightly parted lips
where my words divide, you said there our eyes shall shut,
more border-line blurred; between a certain black and white,
where my colour collides, you said there our guides shall glaze,
clearly engrossed beneath the sterile glass, contained;
Khizennia Voda, when you said, "That love shall never die."



Just to clarify Khizennia Voda is a Russian phrase that means "water of life" however it is more commenly known to us as - Vodka.

peACE
Filth, pure filth... That's what you are.
Last edited by The Hurt Within at Oct 16, 2007,
#2
Well you clearly spent time on this piece, and I commend you for writing something not in your first language (i'm assuming, from your comments - unless you meant like "playing" with english, doing the 'not normally done')

Anyways, to me it seemed really obscure. I read it twice and was still pretty confused. I got that it was about two lovers and it was all very intimate and personal.

Some of the lines are so vague to me, I just can't grasp what you were trying to say. I mean "clearly engrossed beneath the sterile glass contained" could you expand on that please?

I think the reason I'm having trouble with it is because you used so many metaphors and wierd allusions. It was definately interesting though. I'm interested to hear back from you, maybe you can explain to me what you were going for, and let me know if I'm just a hick and didn't get it. Thanks
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
#3
No, no, I am English, as you later said I was trying at the 'uncommon' at least in terms of my writing, which is usually stream-of-conscious stuff, structure is not my favourite style. Anyway your analysis has picked up on one aspect of this, there is definatly an emphasis on two lovers, which I had in mind while writing, and although there are two distinct characters the whole piece centers on the males love for his vodka...read it once with lovers in mind, then again as the man talking to his glass of vodka. That should help with the line you highlighted too, which I have incorrectly phrased, maybe thats the reason its causing confusion.

Thanks for your view, any pieces you'd like a reply on?
Filth, pure filth... That's what you are.
#4
Ah, that gives it an interesting contrast with many similarities. It makes much more sense now, though I don't know if anyone would pick up on that with you explaining it, thanks!

I also really dislike writing with too much structure - it can and does force/strangle creativity. Were you thinking about putting music to it? It doesn't really seem like a set of lyrics, but who knows. You definately know how to write.

I haven't submitted anything yet, so don't worry about critting back.
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
#5
Three things, because this seems to be something of a solid start.

1) The use of "pre-printed" throws off the piece namely because you're adding a prefix that doesn't usually appear with that word. Perhaps something more natural would play to the flow, which appears to be more natural (natural including human images both physical and psychological). Similarily, something about "border-line" doesn't do much for the poem.

2) Alliteration will be the end of us all... Honestly, I abuse alliteration like it's no one's business (though, I suppose, it is, since I do have to read my poetry), but it's a terribly detrimental thing to do too many times. Alliteration is best used sparingly; consonance and assonance aren't quite as bad, but still need to be checked. Remember what alliteration does, that being giving your piece a quick, repetitive flow that is seen by some as giving a piece childish structure and by others as a mature sense of chaos/losing control/insanity (I have to justify myself by being a member of the latter camp). While I, personally, don't feel that it's childish, I do feel that it steals attention from the reader, placing it on the words themselves, whereas you've clearly constructed a poem that is meant to have a disctint theme. In my opinion, better to sacrifice some alliteration. You can usually abuse consonance and get away with it, though...

3) There needs to be a blend here - you're giving me predominately natural, human images throughout, yet end with a bottle of vodka. Now, while drinking certainly is a part of the human experience, it's still not much for a drink being too natural, so far as images are concerned. So, by hints and gentle pokes, feed me the full scene - give me little pictures of things like a chair or a bed, something created by humanity that isn't natural. Give me little indications that we're going to go in the direction of images that can include both the natural and the manufactured. In a sense, warn me - otherwise, I'm going to expect it to stay the course and finish with a strong human image.
#6
Ahh very nice crit, thank you in advance, and begin retort.

Yes i agree with the second hyphen, it was used in haste to avoid the double (ed) of boarderlined and blurred, I'll fix that. But the first I feel implies that our prints are devised pre-conception, as is a humans disposition to alcohol, if its possible I'll change it.

As for the rest I agree wholeheartedly, I do have a penchant for Alliteration, as often with my work (as I said earlier) I rarely focus on such structure, so I find alliteration as means of maintaining flow. And yes the aesthetics do rule in this piece, I fear though that such attention to more inanimate discriptions would render the intertwined images inane, <- Not intentional allit. to piss you off, honest. unless I dedicate an introduction and epilogue to the mis-en-scene, ummm ideas, thank you very much, it is highly appreciated.

anything I can return the sentiment on?

peACE
Filth, pure filth... That's what you are.
Last edited by The Hurt Within at Jul 2, 2006,
#7
The "pre-print" issue seems to lead itself towards a valid quandry, which seems founded upon the fact that "pre-print" is a relatively short word in comparison to similarly defined words (predespensed and predestined, I suppose, are the closest relatives that don't veer from that "pre-" prefix). Certainly, "pre-print" works in context, but I wonder if some contemplation geared towards finding, if not a word, then a phrase to sound more natural.

Secondly, don't be decieved at the nature of man-made and man-borne; what isn't natural only moves with unnatural movement. If you want to keep a sort of motion constant, remember that the introduction of a manufactured object doesn't necessarily have to be in the real space, as well. Consider the character in contemplation, perhaps musing in meditation, concerning the focus - the catalyst of connecting a thought, however, is the conclusion of an inanimate object (ok, I'll stop with the alliteration... it's just so addictive ). Simply, the motion of the object doesn't have to be active - have the character still be the focus, simply inter the sensibility of an inorganic world in order to make that transition easier. In my opinion, the best idea to spin into this addition would be a simple hint dropped concerning this idea of a predetermined attraction towards alcohol - alcohol, of course, being brewed and fermented, and, therefore, an unnatural attraction. Again, to be blunt with it would wreck the piece - no doubt, but I believe that the pay-off of adding that second dimension would truly magnify the relevance and connectivity of the piece in regards to the rest of the world.

As for a little work of my own, I'll have to experiment a bit before I find something worthwhile.
#8
wow havent heard of you in a long time... just stopping by to give you one of my crappy comments so yeah... this made me sad.. it reminded me of a dying love... and it kinda inspired me to write about something...
even though it made me sad, i still liked the way it was written... as always you have a way with words... hope you are well... and i hope to catch up with you soon...

Steph
Boo!
#10
Its very interesting doing as you said, reading thinking about it as vodka and then reading as another lover. One thing i didnt like is the invasion and defeat part, i just think there would be a better way to put that. anyways great. loved it

-Mike
#11
Heeey, whats this piece doing lurking on the third page of S&L? Guess I'll take this opportunity to wax affectionate 'pon it. Hehe, if I recall correctly I was, perhaps appropriately, slightly soused when you first showed me this piece, so maybe I can be more insightful this time 'round!

Yeah, as I mentioned before, I like this rhythm and rhyme you set up ending half-way through every second line. I'm definitely a fan of the unorthodox structuring.

From the two lovers' angle the first seven lines, I feel, are a real treat to read. "Forever embedded" (nice assonance) "between pre-printed palms" was the highlight, for me. Beautiful stuff.

I think you do a good job of defining the piece's theme when you say, almost, that to lay your hand on a glass of Vodka is to place your hand in "grasping webs".

Okay, the colour stuff. I have trouble making sense of this. Are you alluding to some kind of blue when you say "colour collides"? Collision? I dunno; this is a tentative guess but it just vaguely suggests 'blue-shift' to me.

Dunno if this was intentional, but you've mispelled and unnecessarily hyphenated what should read "borderline". No biggie. I really like this line, though. For me, "between a certain black and white" definitely alludes to the thin line between love and hate. Nothing's more apt to blur that line than a passionate addiction, such as one to alcohol or alternatively; a love affair. Nice work there, man.

After about eight lines in it all seems to feel slightly non-sensical when read. Maybe that shouldn't be any other way, given that this piece is about vodka. Maybe. Something is certainly amiss with "sterile glass, contained;", though. Commas and semi-colons are the source of the problem with it, I think.

Okay, on second thought, maybe that "contained" line does make sense. But it feels like it ever-so-slightly disagrees grammatically with what comes after. Meh. I'm reading "guides" mostly to mean "eyes". I love the double meaning of sterile glass. Few things sap the vitality of observation and imagination more than alcohol. In my experience anyway, heh. Anyway, I like that "contained" suggests a kind of imprisonment or subduedness. The juxtaposition of "glazed" and "clearly" makes for nice contrast. 'Tis good wordplay, I think.

The potential double-edged meaning to ending line is brilliant, I think. To look at it from the angle of the two lovers would suggest...joy, (or something similar, I'd hope!), in proclaiming the love eternal, but as for Vodka, there's stark contrast; in the sad permanence of the addiction.

So, basically, I have no real 'criticism' to offer, I just wanted to say that I personally loved this and to explain why I loved it. I always come away from your writing feeling very much stimulated! Hehe, cheers, Ro
ρ
#12
I like this song, but then again I'm a Russian enthusiast =D. That's some nice work there, flowed well, everything was great.

Crit one of mine?
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