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#1
Alrighty so I've always wanted to learn theory and tonight I actually went about it in a constructive way for the first time.Now when using the Major Scale formula to find the notes in the an Amaj scale I come up with this

A-B-C#-D#-E#-F-G#
and if not where did I go wrong

And no need to call me a n00b or flame me, I know already know that . But if you still feel the need FLAME AWAY!
#6
minor scale is whole half whole whole half whole whole
Am is A B C D E F G A
which by the way is the relative minor to the c major scale
which is:
C D E F G A B C
#8
well **** seems like I've got the right idea in a sense but not quite there yet

so for lets say D would it be

D E F# G A B C# D
W W H W W W H

I'm probably wrong there too since there isn't anything from B-C& from E-F it was kind of hard for me because I'm theory retarded!
#11
Okay new question, let's say that we're in the key of D. (the lesson I'm using just gives you an interval guide to the key of C)and you wanted to know what the perfect 4th or Sharp sixth or any interval for that matter would be?
#12
You figure out the D major scale (since your root is D) and then compare the interval to the major scale. So we start with D major, D E F# G A B C# D.
The perfect 4th (4) is already in the major scale - we count up 4 notes, D E F# G. G is the perfect 4th of D.
The sharp 6th (#6) is not in the major scale, so we have to find the 6th note and raise it. The 6th note is B; sharpen that and we get B#. The sharp 6th of D is B#.

-Silly_willy_Sugar_pants
#14
Quote by Silly_willy_Sugar_pants
You figure out the D major scale (since your root is D) and then compare the interval to the major scale. So we start with D major, D E F# G A B C# D.
The perfect 4th (4) is already in the major scale - we count up 4 notes, D E F# G. G is the perfect 4th of D.
The sharp 6th (#6) is not in the major scale, so we have to find the 6th note and raise it. The 6th note is B; sharpen that and we get B#. The sharp 6th of D is B#.

-Silly_willy_Sugar_pants

Alright well I think I understood this to a point last night but I don't anymore
I figured out the D Maj scale

but compare the interval to the major scale. what does that mean? how would i go about doing that?
#15
just find the D major scale, and then find the 4th note, its the 4th letter. that note is the perfect 4th. the sharp 6th is the 6th note, the 6th letter in the scale. take that letter, and sharp it. then you have the sharped 6th. except in this case, the 6th is a B, so when you sharp it it will become a C because there is no b sharp.
#16
O haha that's not so bad I was trying to make things way more complicated

Thanks a lot

edit but if you sharped the sixth it wouldn't be a D major scale anymore would it?
Last edited by ifeastonbums at Jul 7, 2006,
#17
Okay how do I use the circle of fifths to find the key of a song? and even if I found out what key a song was in how would that help me?
#18
Quote by ifeastonbums
Okay how do I use the circle of fifths to find the key of a song? and even if I found out what key a song was in how would that help me?


Haha slow down buddy. The Circle of 5ths is confusing as crap. I still only partially get it. Search for my thread on the Circle of 5ths I had posted up in here a while a go. Read gbp's posts and such. That should help you out.

And the key lets you know what your root note should be.
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#19
Quote by METSOAD
e# and f are the same thing
Be very careful with enharmonics. E# and F are indeed the same pitch, but they are not the same note.
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#20
Quote by gpb0216
Be very careful with enharmonics. E# and F are indeed the same pitch, but they are not the same note.


umm..yes they are? i mean, on paper, no. but when you play either of those, its the same fret
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#21
You don't know enough theory. He JUST said that.


Enharmonics are notes that sound the same and are played the same, but on paper & in usage are different notes.


hence.
E# and F are enharmonics.
Hence.
E# and F are indeed the same pitch, but they are not the same note.
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#22
Quote by DunlopGuy
umm..yes they are? i mean, on paper, no. but when you play either of those, its the same fret


like stated above...
same pitch - yes
same note - no

let's say you write out a C major scale

C, D, E, F, G, A, B

it's diatonic because there's only one of each note...easy right? let's try a C# major, your method would be

C#, D#, F, F#, G#, A#, C

which is not diatonic anymore...the proper way to write it would be

C#, D#, E#, F#, G#, A#, B#
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#23
See I just don't get how to apply theory I've got a VERY basic understanding of some things but I'm trying to get to the point where I can use theory in writting/improvising and knowing how to find that notes to a major scale and being able to convert a Natural Minor scale to a Harmonic Minor scale really doesn't seem like it's going to be to useful in that sense

How do you use those things in writting I mean let's say I wanted to play something in the Key of C major so I would just find the C major scale which is now no big deal so whippdy doo! I've got the notes of the C major scale but what good is that? Is that where Modes come into play? Or what's next?

And thanks to everyone for their help.. it's been pretty...helpful
#24
you have to familiarize yourself with the sounds of the modes so that you can apply them to your playing style and find your own favorite manipulations of the major scale...you also have to obtain the ability to uniquely arrange the notes of the scale into melodic motifs and phrases; this is where creativity comes in...knowing the thoery will allow you to think "ah, i should use the harmonic minor to bring out the sound of that maj7th chord"...so your most immediate step should be to learn the modes and other exotic scales you may want to use
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#25
Quote by axe_grinder247
like stated above...
same pitch - yes
same note - no

let's say you write out a C major scale

C, D, E, F, G, A, B

it's diatonic because there's only one of each note...easy right? let's try a C# major, your method would be

C#, D#, F, F#, G#, A#, C

which is not diatonic anymore...the proper way to write it would be

C#, D#, E#, F#, G#, A#, B#


I think you have the wrong idea about the word diatonic.

A diatonic scale refers to a scale made up of seven different notes - 5 whole tone steps and 2 half tone steps.

Absolutely nothing to do with enharmonic pitches, I'm afraid.
#26
Quote by Johnljones7443
I think you have the wrong idea about the word diatonic.

A diatonic scale refers to a scale made up of seven different notes - 5 whole tone steps and 2 half tone steps.

Absolutely nothing to do with enharmonic pitches, I'm afraid.


but a C# major scale written like C#, D#, F, F#, G#, A#, C...contains 5 different notes, which should be seven, so it's not diatonic...1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 is diatonic...1, 2, b4, 4, 5, 6, b8/1 = not diatonic
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Last edited by axe_grinder247 at Jul 7, 2006,
#27
Quote by axe_grinder247
but a C# major scale written like C#, D#, F, F#, G#, A#, C...contains 5 different notes, which should be seven, so it's not diatonic...1,2,3,4,5,6,7 is diatonic...1,2,b4, 4, 5, 6, b8/1 = not diatonic


That's why the C# major scale isn't written like that. That's just an incorrect way to write it - not meaning it isn't diatonic.

The enharmonic pitches you showed in the C# major scale are all still completely different notes, whether or not they're written in the correct way or not.

Diatonic doesn't refer to which way the scale is written on paper.
#28
so the notes of the diatonic scale aren't based on scale degrees, but of intervals (i.e. whole tones, half tones)?
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#29
^ ...aren't all scales based on intervals in that sense? I mean, even harmonic minor where you say raise the 7th surely you can understand its just a raised interval instead of a "raised scale degree".
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#30
Quote by UtBDan
You don't know enough theory. He JUST said that.


Enharmonics are notes that sound the same and are played the same, but on paper & in usage are different notes.


hence.
E# and F are enharmonics.
Hence.
E# and F are indeed the same pitch, but they are not the same note.


i'm sorry *cries in corner
Quote by yorkshireterror
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Oh yeah, only took me a few months
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#31
Quote by axe_grinder247
you have to familiarize yourself with the sounds of the modes so that you can apply them to your playing style and find your own favorite manipulations of the major scale...you also have to obtain the ability to uniquely arrange the notes of the scale into melodic motifs and phrases; this is where creativity comes in...knowing the thoery will allow you to think "ah, i should use the harmonic minor to bring out the sound of that maj7th chord"...so your most immediate step should be to learn the modes and other exotic scales you may want to use


This guy nailed it.
The best example of this is Blues, not in the sense that Blues music is created using dissonance and conssance, but in the way you phrase your melodies and play it.
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#32
Alright I know this probably isn't the best thread to ask this question in but I figured better to recycle it as it's still useful than to make a new one

What do you guys find is the best way to get fluent in knowing note positions all over the fretboard because I've been working on that and I can figure out what fret is what note if I stop and really think about it but are there any secrets or anything to help me get more fluent in this?
#33
On of the easiest ways I learned the big E string is that fret 3 to 7 is BAG spelled backwards. On other words:

Fret 3 = G
Fret 5= A
Fret 7 = B

And you proably know that C is always just one fret up from B. That's a good way to start memorizing it. It helpd me out a ton.
Run!
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#34
How quickly should I be able to name a note? Does that really only matter if you're trying to improvise within a scale?
#35
Quote by ifeastonbums
How quickly should I be able to name a note? Does that really only matter if you're trying to improvise within a scale?


It doesn't matter how quickly, eventually you'll just know the notes after a while of practicing. To some degree it does matter. If someone wants to jam and wants you to play in the key of D you're gonna want to know where you're D notes are on your guitar.
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#36
That's true but I've yet to meet anyone near me that actually knows any theory as little as I know (very little as you can tell in this thread) I know more than anyone I've met because everyone around me seems to think that if you can play fast you're a guitar god, not that I've got anything against shred and that kind of playing
#37
Quote by ifeastonbums
That's true but I've yet to meet anyone near me that actually knows any theory as little as I know (very little as you can tell in this thread) I know more than anyone I've met because everyone around me seems to think that if you can play fast you're a guitar god, not that I've got anything against shred and that kind of playing


I understand. Just cuz u play fast doesn't mean you can write a song. Do you're best to keep trying to learn theory. If your friend plays an awesome riff, and you need to solo over it, you've got that adavantage of saying, "Hey, that's in the key of ___!!"
Run!
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#38
That's what I'm working on but I'm really not making much useful headway. Basically what I understand right now is the Major Scale formula, Minor Scale formula and how to convert Minor scales to Harmonic minors. I don't really get how to find the key of a song, or how that helps you figure out what chords are being played or what scale/mode to play in.
#39
Well then heres what I did to practice. Pick out a few fast Red Hot Chili Pepper songs and find what key by practicing, and just practice the minor penatonic scale, and try to phrase it. It won't be perfect, but it will really help you if have already a song in a minor pentonic key. Just learn some phrases like different bends, hammer ons, how you play the notes, it will all come naturally after a good while.
Run!
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Simply, the world was too small for a man of his ambition.
Quote by ifeastonbums
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#40
it's not the phrasing I have problems with I've been playing for a couple years and I'm a pretty good player I'm just completely ignorant when it comes to theory
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