#1
Recently ive wanted to add a neo-classical element to my writing style perticuarly the way children of bodom did on hatebreeder and i was wondering what sort of scales should i use how/what way should i use them.

If anyone knew what sort of scales children of bodom used on hatebreeder that would be a big help also(songs like bed of razors).
maybe so...maybe so young one.

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#3
The "Harmonic Minor" scale (#7) is most definitely your best bet. Furthermore, using certain modes more often (like Phrygian)a la Yngwie Malmsteen would help too...

Play sweep arpeggios and incorporating the dim7 shape too!

ex:

l---4-1--------1--
l--------3----3----
l-----------4------
l-------------------
l-------------------
l-------------------

basically, shift that shape up 3 frets at a time to get that "Yngwie" effect.
#4
You move those in minor thirds all the way up the fret board and you get an amazing, ALMOST cromatic sounding effect. Personally I use those sweeps all the time.
As much as I love Bodom..... try not to so much.... go after their sound. Yes, it's perfectly cool to be interested in that genre and to try to write in it, but.... at least this is my opinion.... try not to look for ways to duplicate their sounds.
Create your own original sound, while still staying within the parameters of what mood you're trying to get across.

But yes, harmonic minor is very good for this kind of thing.
#5
malmsteen played the s**t out of the harmonic scale to the point where it isn't unique anymore...build your own style, make a unique chord progression or riff without necessarily adhering to theory and build on it with arpeggio shapes with added color tones, fast scalar sequence runs, sweep tapping, legato licks, etc...be creative, don't carbon-copy methods used by other artists, that's a textbook example of becoming another yngwie, and we sure as hell don't need another one
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#6
Well, I didn't mean Yngwie as a reference specically with the motive of copying him, but I know what u mean...

Also, as for a good mentor for that neo-classical sound, check out Michael Romeo of Symphony X. He uses all kinds of crazy chord voicings like 7th, 9th, & 13th.
I recommend checking out his Young Guitar DVD titled "The Guitar Chapter": he's an excellent teacher.

Warning: don't try his string-skipping tapping stuff, it's impossible!
#7
Thanx guys, i completely forgot about this thread because of the lack of posts in it. Just about what shreddin 4 life said about using modes(phrygian) do u mean use the phrygian mode of the harmonic minor, i get a little confused when it comes to the use of modes. I know that they are scales that are taken from your original scale in this case harmonic minor(or is it the phrygian mode taken from the major scale but then mixed in with the harmonic minor).

Also in shreddin 4 life's example of incorporating the diminished too i dont know exactly what he means.

Any help is apprieciated.
maybe so...maybe so young one.

Quote by Friggly
"But just PRETEND i'm not your sister"


Quote by dingmydong
I'm gonna start reffering to the female reproductive organ as the scarlet monastery now


#8
Quote by axe_grinder247
malmsteen played the s**t out of the harmonic scale to the point where it isn't unique anymore...build your own style, make a unique chord progression or riff without necessarily adhering to theory and build on it with arpeggio shapes with added color tones, fast scalar sequence runs, sweep tapping, legato licks, etc...be creative, don't carbon-copy methods used by other artists, that's a textbook example of becoming another yngwie, and we sure as hell don't need another one

Um.. he was asking how to make music that fits a specified genre... not completely new music.
#9
Quote by axe_grinder247
malmsteen played the s**t out of the harmonic scale to the point where it isn't unique anymore...build your own style, make a unique chord progression or riff without necessarily adhering to theory and build on it with arpeggio shapes with added color tones, fast scalar sequence runs, sweep tapping, legato licks, etc...be creative, don't carbon-copy methods used by other artists, that's a textbook example of becoming another yngwie, and we sure as hell don't need another one


me theory is that you first have to learn what has allready been done to do something new
#10
And by that logic, any sequence of the 12 notes isn't "unique" anymore... Go play other notes!
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He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


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Click.
#11
Quote by seljer
me theory is that you first have to learn what has allready been done to do something new


i know that, but what i meant was to add your own style to it, not to copy EXACTLY what other artists like Yngwie have done...yes, the harmonic minor can be used as much as you want, but do you want to sound like Yngwie, who uses the scale almost exclusively (along with melodic minor and other scales)? i sure don't, my point is to study what has been done, learn from it, and alter it to make it your own, you know?
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#12
Ok, just a quick explanation, the musical modes (as we know them in western music) are just different patterns on the guitar. Basically, they were originally used to evoke certain emotions. For example, "Phrygian" is more often used to express anger, where as the "Lydian" mode tends be used in more of a ballad-like sound.

As for harmonic minor, it's just a matter of application. In short, the only difference in the harmonic minor scale from the natural minor scale is the #7 degree (sharp seventh).

Think of it this way; in the key of A minor (C major):

Natural minor:
l-------------------- Just to give u an idea of the first octave of the Aeolian mode (natural
l-------------------- minor scale)
l--------------------
l---------------5-7-
l--------5-7-8-----
l--5-7-8-----------

Harmonic minor:
l----------------------- By changing that 1 note in the scale, u get the harmonic minor
l----------------------- sound. In other words, counting from the bass note (5th fret on low
l----------------------- E string), the 7th note (in the scale) is a half step sharper than in the
l-----------------6-7- natural minor scale, which when applied to all of the ocatves (or
l----------5-7-8------ modes) will give u that desired neo-classical sound.
l--5-7-8--------------


As for the use of the modes, basically u have to learn all of the shapes of the scale applications accross the neck. If u know both the natural minor scale & the major scale, u've already got 2 of the modes down!

I'll make a very brief explanation of where the modes are, in terms of positions on the neck
(in the key of A minor):

Aeolian =5th/17th fret (same as natural minor scale)
Locrian =7th/19th fret
Ionian =8th/20th fret (same as major scale)
Dorian =10th/22nd fret
Phrygian =12th/open fret
Lydian =1st/13th fret
Mixolydian=3rd/15th fret

If u still don't understand, say so, and I'll see if I can better clear up this stuff for u. And of course, anyone who has greater knowledge of this stuff is more than encouraged to help me out (or correct me if I'm wrong)...
Last edited by Shreddin 4 Life at Jul 14, 2006,
#13
thanx man, so you would use these modes to create a feeling but what i still dont understand is do u use say the lydain mode and then turn into a harmonic minor mode r sumthin, its just the use of it in the neo-classical sound i dont get.
maybe so...maybe so young one.

Quote by Friggly
"But just PRETEND i'm not your sister"


Quote by dingmydong
I'm gonna start reffering to the female reproductive organ as the scarlet monastery now


#14
Well, it's the harmonic minor sound that's characteristic of most neo-classical progressions or melody lines. It's a matter of coming up with a sequence of notes or progression that has that kinda feeling to it. Let ur ears guide u.
However, u don't absolutely have to use harmonic minor to get a neo-classical sound, u just have to be a little more creative with ur choice of chords... ( much more difficult approach though)

Also, I forgot about u asking about the diminished seventh (dim7) ideas I proposed. So here goes a bit of an explanation:

I'm not entirely familiar with the explanation of what exactly characterizes the "dim7" sound, but I do know how to acquire it. Basically, the highest note (on the high e string) is either a #7th degree, or a 2nd degree (depending on the octave of course)

Ex: on the highest strings (GBe), these would be the dim7 shapes:
(in A minor once again)

l--1--4--7---10-- Obviously, ur just moving it up in minor 3rds (in this case, 3
l--3--6--9---12-- etc... frets at a time). NOTE: for diminished chords, to find the next
l--4--7-10--13-- shape, just move it up 3 frets at a time (that's the way dim
l------------------ chords work with standard guitar tunings)
l------------------
l------------------

what I mean by incorporating it to attain that neo-classical effect, is like so:

Ex1: Sweeping (3-string)

Am G Am/E G#dim7
l--17-12----------12--15-10-----------10--12-8---------8--13-10----------10-----l ll
l----------13---13--------------12---12-----------10---10-----------12---12-------Ol ll
l-------------14--------------------12------------------9------------------13------------l ll
l--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------l ll
l------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ol ll
l--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------l ll
F: 4 1 2 3 2 1 4 1 2-------l 1 4 1 2 1 2 1 3 1 2 1 2 1


Play that a few times and u'll prolly see what I mean... [the fingering is merely suggestive]
(sorry but the tab wouldn't center: I usually use guitar pro or power tabs)

Anyways, hope that clears up the dim7 ideas. Just play around with some chords and see what u can come up with...
Last edited by Shreddin 4 Life at Jul 15, 2006,