#1
This is confusing me. There's too many bloody sub genre's that overlap. Someone please explain to me the differences between:

Heavy Metal
Metal
Metalcore
Hardcore

And wtf does it mean exactly when melodic is placed at the end of any of said genres?

Oh, another, not very important one, but what the crap? MATHcore?

And... what the differences in how they're played on guitar? Is it just minor differences in distortion? Or maybe the only differences in any of these are lyrics? How the crap is Death Metal different from regular metal, and what about thrash and power?

The only distinguishment I've been able to make are Heavy Metal and Metal tend to sound more... shreddy, like dragonforce and avenged sevenfold, and the "cores" are just really distorted power chords mostly.

Never been a fan of metal mainly because the lyrics never pleased my ears. I like boysetsfire's lyric style, and I read that they are hardcore. I say this because if you start making comparisons to bands, I'm not going to know wtf you're talking about. If you can't explain the differences without naming bands, I really don't think the differences are enough to constitute a new sub sub genre. I'm trying to do some research, and I just don't understand.
#2
Heavy Metal and Metal are the same, I'd say. That's the stuff from the 80's like Metallica and Slayer. There's some sub-genres and such like Hair Metal and a few others. Metalcore is hardcore mixed with elements of metal. The best example I can think of is Atreyu. I don't really listen to that much metalcore. Hardcore doesn't really have a definition. There's so many different sounds in hardcore. It generally has heavy, distorted guitars, "breakdowns" and screaming. It can range from stuff like Chiodos or the Fall of Troy to stuff like Zao and Norma Jean. It's a very encompassing genre.
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#3
no offense but ambulence didn't use real hardcore bands

heavy metal = if your talking about death metal it will be like nile and cannibal corpse

Metal - there are a ton of different types of metal, prolly checking the metal forum is the best bet.

Metalcore is metal riffs followed a typical slow, heavy breakdown, vocals are ussually screaming.

Hardcore - Hardcore started out being very simlar to punk, but ussually played faster than punk was bands like bad brains and minor threat. It evolved it got more heavy with more breakdowns. Bands can range from sounding anything from good clean fun, to bane, blacklisted (RIP) to DonnyBrook (some of the most popular bands i could think of that encompassed the entire hardcore ground.) You can find all of those bands on myspace.

Sombody eles can probably explain mathcore better but Its more technical guitar works and the most popular band is dillinger escape plan.
Pink the Punk : Trust me, don't shower or shave or anything for a week then go out on the pull with a loincloth and half a dead mammoth over your should. You won't be short of chicks that night

thats why he's the hardcore mod
#4
Heavy metal and metal, are the same as already stated, although alot of people use heavy metal refer to older metal bands likes Black Sabbath.

Hardcore is punk influenced music (which can be heard alot in many hardcore drum beats/guitar progressions, ex - lots of power chords). Bands like Bad Brains, Iron Age, Set it Straight, Bane are hardcore.

Metalcore is metal influenced music, and tends to use alot more breakdowns then hardcore, with the double bass pedals, and open C chords. Bands: As I layng dying, Darkest Hour, Unearth, Converge, etc.

Mathcore is basically grindcore that's slightly more organised.

Adding melodic in there means that the band will have more "catchy" chord progressions/riffs, instead of being totally "br00tal".

Death metal usually has very morbid lyrics. Lots of double bass drumming, and more often than not, growling.

Power metal = Iron maiden, Dragonforce, etc. in a nut shell.
Last edited by technicolour at Jul 11, 2006,
#5
Metal - Death, Black, Grind, Power, Progressive, Heavy, Folk. ect.

Hardcore - Oldschool, New School, Metalcore, Mathcore, Emocore, Thiscore, thatcore, applecore.
#6
Mathcore is basically musically elaborate and complicated hardcore. It's riddled with changing time signatures, very technical riffs and complex song structure. Dillinger is probably the best known, but there's plenty others.
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#8
Ok, it's making a little more sense now... so hardcore is faster harder punk, metalcore is like hardcore but more influenced by metal...

forgive my ignorance, what exactly is a breakdown?

melodic just means having a catchy chord progression? that's it? isn't that like a minimum requirement of any song to be good? melodic as opposed to what, playing the same exact chord over and over?
#9
bands like chiodos, and fall of troy, the bled, can still be called hardcore, since they dont really fit elsewhere, buts they are not true hardcore
Quote by shakin'cakes
First of all, I enjoy deathcore for it's complexity and it's the only genre heavy enough for me



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#10
Quote by Jondy
Ok, it's making a little more sense now... so hardcore is faster harder punk, metalcore is like hardcore but more influenced by metal...

forgive my ignorance, what exactly is a breakdown?

melodic just means having a catchy chord progression? that's it? isn't that like a minimum requirement of any song to be good? melodic as opposed to what, playing the same exact chord over and over?


melodic also has much to do with the vocals.

death metal: growls

melodic death metal: melodic, operatic singing

(this is a gross generalization)
Quote by Chaos Guitar
im great at sweeping but horrible at pinch harmonics

#11
Heavy Metal has a lacteral sense - metal which the user/sayer thinks is rather heavy or...

Heavy Metal is usually tended to describe rather basic forms of metal. These may include Black Sabbath, Opeth and Machine Head. The meaning is rather versatile... So it varies a lot and some may disagree with me.

Metal sprawned from Rock 'n' Roll. They enjoyed the harder sense of the music - but didn't like some aspects which they put into it. They added some darker ideas and pushed themselves to the limit to create "heavy" music which developed into metal. (Think Black Sabbath) Nowdays, metal is extremely versatile and because there are many sub genres - it can mean anything. Check out the metal recommendation list in the metal thread for help. They name every band which should go under each sub genre.

Hardcore sprawned in the 80's (some say also the 70's). Really, it really kicked off in the 80's. Bands such as gorilla biscuits (www.myspace.com/gorillabiscuits) took the punk, and added more energy, added the pace to make it "hardcore". As it developed, it grew heavier and heavier (in some bands) and gained scene characterists you could say. This include "moshing" (checking out hardcore dancing orgins - kick ass) and breakdowns. It is esstenial to know that it tries to remain true to how it started - it's "core".

There are many sub genres which sprawned off hardcore, which I blame for a large mixture of influences and a change of sound. But - these aren't to be called hardcore - they should be called by their sub genre. (Think Dillinger Escape Plan, Think Number Twelve) These tend to sound VERY different to where it originates from. Some bands make sub genres and keep into the hardcore name very well. Genres like these include "Tough Guy" (www.myspace.com/hatebreed)

And finally...

Metalcore developed in the 90's. This sprawned from where people had hardcore and metal influences.

Killswitch Engage - Contains lyrics which tend to promote good messages opposed to gory ones (hardcore influences)

Search for a heavy sound (metal)

Some riffages are very rythmic (hardcore)

Some drum patterns can be very fast/basey/snarey and sometimes out of place from the music itself (metal)

It established itself, and created a sound quite far off from both genres - but still quite close.

Many of this bands include As I Lay Dying, Killswitch Engage, Caliban, to newer, acts such as Bullet For My Valentine and Trivium, which bring new aspects to the genre including solos and "emo" lyrics.

EDIT: Boysetfire - Emocore I believe...

and Mathcore - techical, fast, and some jazz theory such as changing tempos and time signitures etc. Some call it jazz fusion. Think The Dillinger Escape Plan, Think The Number Twelve Looks Like You, Think Sikth, Think Into The Moat, check out and find some of those on myspace.

EDIT EDIT:

And... what the differences in how they're played on guitar? Is it just minor differences in distortion? Or maybe the only differences in any of these are lyrics? How the crap is Death Metal different from regular metal, and what about thrash and power?

The only distinguishment I've been able to make are Heavy Metal and Metal tend to sound more... shreddy, like dragonforce and avenged sevenfold, and the "cores" are just really distorted power chords mostly.


You're looking at minor aspects of it. But they do count. Hardcore can have very personal experiences or good messages. Metal can vary so much from sub genre to sub genre.T here do tend to be more chords in hardcore and solos in metal. But - little things like this don't change a genre to another. Think more about the big picture on how they found like.

EDIT EDIT EDIT:

forgive my ignorance, what exactly is a breakdown?


A repitive, catchy part of the song. These can change from slow and basic - too a whole lot of palm muting then a chord - or something more rythmic.

www.myspace.com/evergreenterance - first band off the top of my head. They use a lot of break downs. Check out the break down thread or one of their songs. You'll probably know what I'm on about when you hear it. Check out "No Donnie, These Men Are Nihlists" and "New Friend Request".
Last edited by Craigo at Jul 11, 2006,
#12
Quote by gaspasser88
melodic also has much to do with the vocals.
...

melodic death metal: melodic, operatic singing

(this is a gross generalization)



No...melodic death metal describes the riffs, and feel of the music. It has little to do with the vocals. Look at Quo Vadis...brutal vocals, but still a very melodic feel.

I know you said that it was a generalization, but I feel it has FAR more to do with the music, and very little to do with the vocals
#13
^^^

Very well put. Melodic vocals - think gothic metal.

One of the top examples of Melodic Metal (also says the metal thread recommendation list) is The Black Dahli Murder's first album: "Unhallowed"

Check out "Thy Cosmic Horror" - incredible stuff.
#15
Quote by StuartR
Mathcore? like Grindcore? But more structured?


Are. You. Crazy?


He's probably thinking of the new aged grindcore IE daughters even though they are not really grindcore. Those bands don't really have a genre other than ghey.
Quote by JobForACowboy
um, yes it is.

sry if you havent heard of it, death metal bands that wear girl jeans = emodeath
#17
Quote by Gomorrah
He's probably thinking of the new aged grindcore IE daughters even though they are not really grindcore. Those bands don't really have a genre other than ghey.


When I think of grindcore I think of Pig destroyer, when I think of mathcore I think of DEP.
#18
Quote by technicolour
When I think of grindcore I think of Pig destroyer, when I think of mathcore I think of DEP.



I agree with you, I was stating that many kids mistakenly call Daughters and the likes grindcore.
Quote by JobForACowboy
um, yes it is.

sry if you havent heard of it, death metal bands that wear girl jeans = emodeath
#19
Quote by Gomorrah
I agree with you, I was stating that many kids mistakenly call Daughters and the likes grindcore.


What are Daughters considered anyways? They have some element of grind...

EDIT - Oh "new age grindcore", I see.
#20
i disagree that daughters is new age grindcore, they are just a really noisy and not so complex mathcore band...."new age grindcore" = see you next tuesday, robinson, tower of rome....mathcore is like DEP, into the moat (has death metal influences), psyopus, curl up and die, converge (even though they are original metalcore), and an albatross. pig destroyer is grindcore as well, but it is more influenced by old grind such as napalm death and it borders on being goregrind.

PS-hahah...i expected some idiot who doesnt know me in here to go off on me for my sarcastic hawthorne heights comment...darn
#21
Quote by jazzmetalguitar


PS-hahah...i expected some idiot who doesnt know me in here to go off on me for my sarcastic hawthorne heights comment...darn


That was almost going to be me, I didn't know whether or not you were being serious but I guessed it was a joke
#23
a breakdown is a part in a song where the band usually plays in half time, this gives it a slower feel. it can be fast though. the band usually plays open on the strings, to give it the lowest sounds possible.

some good breakdowns

band name-song name-minutes into the song
haste the Day-Blue 42-3:25
Evergreen Terrace-No Donnie, These men are Nihilist-0:52
He is Legend-I Am Hollywood-0:23, 1:59
Killwhitneydead-Murder Nouveau(It's all the Rage)-1:38
Lamb of God-Hourglass-2:08
Lamb of God-Laid to Rest-2:12

there are a whole bunch of good breakdwons but these are a few of my favorites. kinda gives yuo an idea of different ways of playing breakdowns
#24
I never really got how one breakdown can be better than the other:s

Unless maybe there's very quick riffs in between the open strummed chords, or the timing is very odd.
#25
I personally get very annoyed with bands that use simple open chords and triplet combinations of said open chords for the whole breakdown...thats boring IMO. Some bands with a bit more variation to their breakdowns:

Darkest Hour
All that Remains
Unearth
As I lay Dying
Machinemade God
Raunchy
the Haunted (mostly rEVOLVEr)
As Blood Runs Black
Himsa
Protest the Hero
#27
you think so? which ones? ATR, AILD, and Unearth are obvious and I was thinking

Darkest Hour - Blessing in Tragedy among others
The Haunted - Fire Alive among others
Raunchy - Rememberance
As Blood Runs Black - My Fears Have Become Phobias among others
Machinemade God - all over the place
Himsa - not as much, but I've heard em

Protest the Hero is a little iffy, but there are definitely parts of songs that I would consider breakdowns.
#30
Quote by prisonofreason
you think so? which ones? ATR, AILD, and Unearth are obvious and I was thinking

Darkest Hour - Blessing in Tragedy among others
The Haunted - Fire Alive among others
Raunchy - Rememberance
As Blood Runs Black - My Fears Have Become Phobias among others
Machinemade God - all over the place
Himsa - not as much, but I've heard em

Protest the Hero is a little iffy, but there are definitely parts of songs that I would consider breakdowns.


Protest the Hero's guitarists are talented, but dear God their vocalist is annoying.
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#32
Quote by Ambulance X
Protest the Hero's guitarists are talented, but dear God their vocalist is annoying.



i love the singing its refreshing