#1
Okay this has been bothering me for a while

lets say I'm playing a rhythm in E I can solo in E right but I heard you can use another but I don't know how it was something like the last the las key in the scale for example

EFGABCDE I could use D but I'm not sure.

I know this confusing but I NEED Help so anything will great thanks.
TO DISTURB IS TO PLEASE
#2
do you mean E major?
this is hard to explain so i need to know what you are talking about exactly
#3
I think what you're describing is modulating to the relative minor or major.

In the key you provided - Emajor, that would be C#minor.

The relative minor is always the 6th tone of the major.


[B][U]E major Scale[/U][/B].

E - F# - G# - A - B - [B]C#[/B] - D# - E.

Notice the 6th tone is C# - Emajors relative minor.


Another example in C...


[B][U]C major Scale[/U][/B].

C - D - E - F - G - [B]A[/B] - B - C.

6th tone - A.
Relative Minor - [B]A minor[/B].


Ya get it?

The relative minor or major is the key that has the same key signature, but different tonic of a particular key.

You could look at like - 'The relative minor of a major key always has a tonic a minor-third lower' but I think the way I explained should get you started
Last edited by Johnljones7443 at Jul 13, 2006,
#4
For one, that is not E major or minor scale. That is the phrygian mode of C. To get a major scale use the wwhwwwh formula. So in E

E F# G# A B C# D# E --- This is the E major Scale. you can solo with the modes of this scale over an E major chord. A mode is the same scale as the major scale, it just starts on a different root note.

like so... over and E major Chord.

G# A B C# D# E F# G#


EDIT: Beaten to it ^. Now that I think about it, he probably was talking about the relative minor. Good job Jones.
#5
Quote by --MoRbId--
Okay this has been bothering me for a while

lets say I'm playing a rhythm in E I can solo in E right but I heard you can use another but I don't know how it was something like the last the las key in the scale for example

EFGABCDE I could use D but I'm not sure.

I know this confusing but I NEED Help so anything will great thanks.


E F G A B C D E

that is E phrygian mode

so it is basicly C major but start on E

u could play C major A natural minor (aeolian mode) or E phrygian as you have wrote above

need anymore help PM me
Quote by joshsirjoshules
Once again...it's the NME, they're notorious for being dumbasses. I know that, and I live in Texas for Christ's sake!


"If you think you've got it, shove it out, run it up the flagpole, and see who salutes it."
#6
C Major and A Minor are not the same thing though...so if you played A Minor in place of C Major it would sound different...but I don't think that has anything to do with your question
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#7
if ur playing a rythm in E u could use E maj, C# min, all the modes of E,
plus u can use the E, B, and A maj pentatonics and the C#, F#, and G# min pentatonics

also u can use the C# phrygian and C# Dorian. this will give u one accidental ("wrong note"), but that will just add flavor as long as u remember to resolve back to the E.

also, u could use the E Lydian or E Mixolydian modes, but as with the one above, this will generate one accidental.

i have also found that in a major key, the major pentatonic of the b7th note works well. this would be d maj pentatonic, which will have 2 accidentals, but it sounds pretty cool.

also the F# major pentatonic will sound good. it will have one accidental.

the C# harmonic minor scale can also be good, as well as C# melodic minor.

also, the E melodic minor scale will work because it is and E maj scale with a flat 3rd.

hope thats not too confusing. its kinda hard to explain
#8
they arent modes if they are chords it is just the scale degree and stuff like that
#9
lol that was a bad explanation so i will leave it to more knowledgable people to explain this
#10
Quote by supermc
C Major and A Minor are not the same thing though...so if you played A Minor in place of C Major it would sound different...but I don't think that has anything to do with your question


It sounds different because of the different interval order obviously but they would bother fit perfectly because there part of that key!

C major

C D E F G A B C

A Minor

A B C D E F G A

how aint that the same thing?

its the same scale starting on a different note hence why they are modes....

the progression he has givin is in E phrygian so the key of the song is C major

therefor A natural minor will work perfect, blending the tone of phrygian with aeolian.


You could use E minor Pentatonic because E phrygian is a pent scale with a flat second and flat 6 so it would just mean your missing 2 notes out, but them 2 notes will give it more flavour and different tone which is what you should be heading for rather than a basic pent because there borin.

you could use D minor Pent, A minor Pent aswell, there are alot of things that will work if u dont wonna get depp into theory then use your ears and pick the notes that sound good of that progression

try using arpeggio's aswell
Quote by joshsirjoshules
Once again...it's the NME, they're notorious for being dumbasses. I know that, and I live in Texas for Christ's sake!


"If you think you've got it, shove it out, run it up the flagpole, and see who salutes it."
Last edited by rock_guitargod at Jul 14, 2006,
#11
Quote by rock_guitargod
It sounds different because of the different interval order obviously but they would bother fit perfectly because there part of that key!

C major

C D E F G A B C

A Minor

A B C D E F G A

how aint that the same thing?

its the same scale starting on a different note hence why they are modes....

the progression he has givin is in E phrygian so the key of the song is C major

therefor A natural minor will work perfect, blending the tone of phrygian with aeolian.


You could use E minor Pentatonic because E phrygian is a pent scale with a flat second and flat 6 so it would just mean your missing 2 notes out, but them 2 notes will give it more flavour and different tone which is what you should be heading for rather than a basic pent because there borin.

you could use D minor Pent, A minor Pent aswell, there are alot of things that will work if u dont wonna get depp into theory then use your ears and pick the notes that sound good of that progression

try using arpeggio's aswell


C major - Root, major second, major third, perfect fourth, fifth, major sixth, major seventh

A minor - Root, major second, minor third, perfect fourth, fifth, minor sixth, minor seventh

those intervals don't look the same to me...it's not the notes that make a mode unique, but the relation between them
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#12
ok then......play a progression in C major then solo in A minor....

once again for the arse who didnt get it the first time...

C MAJOR (IONIAN MODE)

C D E F G A B C ........1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1

A MINOR (AEOLIAN MODE)

A B C D E F G A ...... 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

how what difference does it make in what order u play them apart form the minor or major tonality it will bring out....


there the same notes so you can use either one!

its called a MODEL PROGRESSION

half of satch's songs are in mixolydian mode but he doesnt neccersarily use that to solo does he....

so long as your playing a mode from the key it will fit!

now is this clear or do i have to repeat myself again?
Quote by joshsirjoshules
Once again...it's the NME, they're notorious for being dumbasses. I know that, and I live in Texas for Christ's sake!


"If you think you've got it, shove it out, run it up the flagpole, and see who salutes it."
Last edited by rock_guitargod at Jul 14, 2006,
#13
Quote by rock_guitargod
ok then......play a progression in C major then solo in A minor....

once again for the arse who didnt get it the first time...

C MAJOR (IONIAN MODE)

C D E F G A B C ........1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1

A MINOR (AEOLIAN MODE)

A B C D E F G A ...... 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

how what difference does it make in what order u play them apart form the minor or major tonality it will bring out....


there the same notes so you can use either one!

its called a MODEL PROGRESSION

half of satch's songs are in mixolydian mode but he doesnt neccersarily use that to solo does he....

so long as your playing a mode from the key it will fit!

now is this clear or do i have to repeat myself again?


ugh, you seriously need to study your theory, it's not as simple as the notes you use, and although C major and A minor contain the same notes, they are NOT the same thing...yes, you can solo over a C major progression in A minor but it will lead to dissonance...go ahead, try it
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it took you 15 consecutive hours of practice to realize that playing guitar makes you better at playing guitar. congratulations.


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Axe_grinder pwns!!!!



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#14
no i think u need to put ya book away and actually use your ears because people use that basic idea in alot of compositions

uve just stated it will work and if there is the same notes as the key then they will fit with the chords...

never sed it would be perfect i sed it would fit
Quote by joshsirjoshules
Once again...it's the NME, they're notorious for being dumbasses. I know that, and I live in Texas for Christ's sake!


"If you think you've got it, shove it out, run it up the flagpole, and see who salutes it."
#15
Quote by axe_grinder247
ugh, you seriously need to study your theory, it's not as simple as the notes you use, and although C major and A minor contain the same notes, they are NOT the same thing...yes, you can solo over a C major progression in A minor but it will lead to dissonance...go ahead, try it


Thank you, finally somebody actually confirmed what I said...
Gear:

Crafter FX550 EQL
Ibanez SA260FML

THD Univalve
Framus FR-212 Cab (Celestion Vintage 30's)

Dunlop Crybaby

Started playing May 28th 2005
#16
rock_guitargod knows his crap. When he's talking about the modes and stuff he is right.

E Phrygian mode = C major (Ionian mode) = A minor (Aeolian mode)

Depending what the threadstarter wants the song to sound like, he could use the C major for a happier tone or an A minor for a more sad sounding tone.

As for soloing with an Am scale over a chord progression in the key of C...it DOES work. Believe me, I've tried it. Some of my best leads have come from using the Am scale to solo over a chord progression in the key of C. They are sister keys.
#17
cheers lespaul_rentals..........SISTER KEYS....thats the term i was looking for but couldnt think lol

at least you no what i mean

i gave the thread-starter the basic idea for using a basic major scale but adding flavour (the modes..the order you play the notes)

i didnt want to go into detail like the others because its obvious he knows little theory so it would baffle him

its all down to putting idea's on the guitar and LISTENING for what sounds best!
Quote by joshsirjoshules
Once again...it's the NME, they're notorious for being dumbasses. I know that, and I live in Texas for Christ's sake!


"If you think you've got it, shove it out, run it up the flagpole, and see who salutes it."