#1
I want to make sure I have modes cleared up once and for all. I know all about the the theory behind modes, just not about their application. So I offer the following scenario, and would someone please tell me which one is right. If I were playing in the key of C# minor and I wanted to play the phrygian mode, would I...

- Play the major scale in the key of E
- Play the "phrygian shape" in the key of E
- Play the "phrygian shape" in the key of C#

Thank you in advanced.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#2
- Play the major scale in the key of E
- Play the "phrygian shape" in the key of E
- Play the "phrygian shape" in the key of C#


I believe it would be E# [or F], not E. Since everything is raise a semi-tone. In response to your question...I believe it would be E# phyrgian that you would play...but make sure others agree with that before you take my word, not 100% sure, could be wrong =P.
#3
But the thing is, if you play E phrygian, aren't you technically playing ionian?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#4
Quote by Pulling Teeth
I believe it would be E# [or F], not E. Since everything is raise a semi-tone. In response to your question...I believe it would be E# phyrgian that you would play...but make sure others agree with that before you take my word, not 100% sure, could be wrong =P.

The key is C# minor though. Let me double-check. Yep, it is lol.

So the notes in C# minor are: C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, and B.

Since the Aeolian mode is the minor scale, it would be C# Aeolian, which is a mode in the key of E major.

E Ionian
F# Dorian
G# Phrygian
A Lydian
B Mixolydian
C# Aeolian
D# Locrian

So I guess you could play G# Phrygian. I'm not sure though.

Quote by Archeo Avis
But the thing is, if you play E phrygian, aren't you technically playing ionian?


If you play E Phrygian, you are playing Phrygian. E Phrygian is in the key of C major. Since this is the key of C# minor (which is in the key of E major), if you play the "E mode", then you are playing Ionian, but in E major, the Phrygian mode is G# Phrygian.
Last edited by kirbyrocknroll at Jul 18, 2006,
#5
So I guess you could play G# Phrygian. I'm not sure though.


So you would play the "phrygian shape" with the root note on G#?
I just want to make sure I have everything perfectly clear.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#6
Quote by Archeo Avis
So you would play the "phrygian shape" with the root note on G#?
I just want to make sure I have everything perfectly clear.

I'm not sure on that one (as always...). I've never seen the pattern for the Phrygian mode, I'm not too good with patterns. But if you use the pattern you should end up with the notes G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, and F#.
#7
Quote by kirbyrocknroll
I'm not sure on that one (as always...). I've never seen the pattern for the Phrygian mode, I'm not too good with patterns. But if you use the pattern you should end up with the notes G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, and F#.


The pattern would be...

Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#9
The thing is, it's not going to SOUND phrygian unless you have the right chords in the background. If you're playing in C# minor, but the chord progression resolves to a G# minor chord, then you'll use G# phrygian to solo. If you use G# phrygian over a C# minor chord, it will sound the same as a C# minor (aeolian) scale. Modes' sounds are determined by the backing chords.

However, if you're just playing a C# minor chord over and over and over again, with no chord changes, you would be able to use C# phrygian to solo to get the phrygian sound.
#10
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You would play C# Phrygian, C# D E F# G# A B, the third mode of A major.


What the shit?

Kirbyrocknroll's post was right (the first one) and also Clownmite is right.
Last edited by Duman at Jul 19, 2006,
#12
It seems that people fall into two camps regarding how to use modes. Some translate into different keys ("let's see... I want C# phyrgian so that means I should play Ionian mode of key of E"). Others think of modes as slight alterations of the basic major or minor scales. ("I want C# phrygian so I'll just think C# minor scale but I'll flat the second degree").

I've always used the second approach, the former seemed like way too much mental work, especially if you're flying by the seat of your pants in an open jam.

Of course this presupposes that you've experimented with it beforehand and have become good at knowing visually where the second degree of the scale falls on the neck, so you don't have to think too hard about it.

the notes in C# phrygian would be (as bangoodcharlote said):

C# D E F# G# A B

The only difference from a normal C# minor scale being the second degree of the scale (D instead of D#)

The pattern you showed Archeo Davis would be correct to use if the red (root) notes on the sixth anf first strings were at the ninth fret.

Modes are just sounds relative to the underlying tonality. The phrygian mode is the sound of a flat second. If the overall tonality is C# and you want the phrygian sound, you flat the second degree of the C#m scale.

If you play a G# phyrgian scale while the overall tonality is C#m, you're going to get a different sound. It will not sound phrygian, it will sound like a normal C#m scale (G#phrgyian = C#m aeolian).

As clownmite said, it all has to do with the backing chords, i.e. the underlying tonality.
#13
Quote by Clownmite
The thing is, it's not going to SOUND phrygian unless you have the right chords in the background.


If anyone is in doubt, this is an article I wrote that may help, scroll to the bottom half for the chord section.

Quote by Robbie n strat
In the changing rooms we'd all jump around so our dicks and balls bounced all over the place, which we found hilarious.



Little children should be felt, not heard.
#15
Haha don't bull**** me mate, you didn't have a clue what you were talking about, you just said Csharp phrygian because he said 'I want to play the phrygian mode of the key of Csharp' even though that's the wrong key.
#16
Quote by Duman
Haha don't bull**** me mate, you didn't have a clue what you were talking about, you just said Csharp phrygian because he said 'I want to play the phrygian mode of the key of Csharp' even though that's the wrong key.
Yes, I am going to be an arrogant ass...


Click this! Not look at #7. See, that's me. That means I know my shit. I am right. If you want C# Phrygian, you play C# Phrygian.
#18
Quote by Duman
*sigh*

I give up.

Dude, I agree with bangoodcharlote. I'm wrong. Like I said, I wasn't completely sure. And he does know his stuff, so I believe him.
#19
Quote by kirbyrocknroll
Dude, I agree with bangoodcharlote. I'm wrong. Like I said, I wasn't completely sure. And he does know his stuff, so I believe him.
Don't feel like a putz. I don't want that to happen. The question was worded confusingly (this happens when you're unsure) and it could be interpreted as "how do you play C# Phrygian" or "how do you play the 4th mode of C# minor?" You answered the second part correctly, but I think the threadstarter wanted to know about the first part.

Duman, you should feel like a putz.
#20
Well it depends on what the TS was asking, cos G sharp Phrygian will have the same notes as Csharp minor so you can always solo over chords in the key of Csharp minor with Gsharp Phrygian but you can also use Csharp phrygian seeing as that's the root, but it will have some out of key notes.

Anyway man, bangoodcharlote, i'm sorry, i'm not having the best of days and I took your post the wrong way.
#21
Quote by Duman
Anyway man, bangoodcharlote, i'm sorry, i'm not having the best of days and I took your post the wrong way.
You are forgiven. You need not feel like a putz!


Edit: I vote for not posting in this thread anymore unless there are additional questions. I think we've answered the original question and we will just be smamming if we continue to post.