#1
How do speakers affect the sound of an amp?

One more thing, I need some speakers that can give me a very defined and clarified sound, both in lets say a "metzo-forte" gain for strumming and picking?
Last edited by im fresh to it at Jul 20, 2006,
#2
Are you kidding? Speakers probably are the thing that effect the sound the most. That and the drivers.
#4
Guitar speakers have very different frequency responses and they way they distort at high volumes influences the sound greatly. They're designed to be loud, not to reproduce things accurately like stereo speakers. Look at the frequency response of the typcial Celestion Vintage 30 http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/products/graphs/vintage_30.gif , it sucks at anything over 6khz (and its probably better that way otherwise guitarists would complain that its way too bright).
#5
Speakers have the second biggest effect on tone after amps .

Celestion's V30 is bright and has strong mids that won't muddify your tone.
Ibanez -> Peavey -> Eardrums

Apparently I'm on some list of people to listen to..?
#6
Speakers make the sound...How much more of an effect on sound do you need?

And i dont understand your "medium loud gain"
#7
Quote by seljer
Guitar speakers have very different frequency responses and they way they distort at high volumes influences the sound greatly. They're designed to be loud, not to reproduce things accurately like stereo speakers. Look at the frequency response of the typcial Celestion Vintage 30 http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/products/graphs/vintage_30.gif , it sucks at anything over 6khz (and its probably better that way otherwise guitarists would complain that its way too bright).


Yeah, I have a 412 with 30's for low end and 75 for high end. It sounds really cool.
the lesser known of the 4
#8
Quote by TheFluffy
Speakers make the sound...How much more of an effect on sound do you need?

And i dont understand your "medium loud gain"


Haha, sorry. I guess what I was trying to say with the metzo-forte was not too heavy of a gain, but just enough.
#9
Can anyone explain frequencies to me? Like my username says, i'm fresh to it. I have absolutely no understanding of impedences, ohms, frequencies, or basically anything technical about amps. Can anyone or anything help me out?
#10
Well frequency relates to pitch, or timbre in this case. Higher frequencies from 4khz-10khz are for treble, mids are 500mhz-2khz, and lows are roughly 30mhz-400mhz.

frequencies higher than 15khz and lower than 60khz don't effect guitar tones much at all.
Ibanez -> Peavey -> Eardrums

Apparently I'm on some list of people to listen to..?
#11
Cool. So I'm guessing the higher the frequencies the more aparent they are in the sound of an amp?
#12
If by meaning higher, the frequency has more amplitude, then yes. That frequency would be more apparent.

There are other factors, like cab dimension, that will effect the way the speaker reacts.
Ibanez -> Peavey -> Eardrums

Apparently I'm on some list of people to listen to..?
#13
Wait, so when you say amplitude what do you mean? Like 10khz would mean that it would be a really trebly amp and one with 4khz would mean bass or mids would be more apparent?
#14
amplitude is how loud the frequency is. So a lot of 10khz would be super bright, and a lot of 100mhz would be very bassy.
Ibanez -> Peavey -> Eardrums

Apparently I'm on some list of people to listen to..?
#16
Ohh I get it. Thanks. And what about those other factors you were talking about. How do they affect the sound? Oh, and like a guitar, does it matter what wood the cab is made out of?
#17
Quote by seljer
err, 100hz, since 100mhz is not even sound


d'oh
Ibanez -> Peavey -> Eardrums

Apparently I'm on some list of people to listen to..?
#18
Quote by im fresh to it
Ohh I get it. Thanks. And what about those other factors you were talking about. How do they affect the sound? Oh, and like a guitar, does it matter what wood the cab is made out of?


the wood doesn't really matter, the size and the design of the cabinet is much much more important
#20
Quote by im fresh to it
How does that play a role?


Generally its bigger cabinet = bigger bottom end

though theres a large number of things to put into consideration. With guitar cabinets this stuff isn't that all important as it is with stereo speakers or bass cabinets (Mr Marshall just built his first guitar cabinets to the size of the peices of wood he had available and the design has stuck for 40 years now).

The number of speakers in the cabinet also changes the sound a lot.

And the main difference in the types of cabinets is closed back and open back cabinets (like combos). And open back projects the sound all around but a closed back projects it only from the front of the amp and it gives the amp a much tighter sounds (espescially in the low end)
#21
Awesome everyone! Thanks for helping me with this. I've learned a lot! I'm sure there's more and I'm gonna have to learn about it but right now I'm having a hard enough time as it is understanding tubes. I got this from the Mesa Boogie website:

Heres the diagram they're talking about: http://www.mesaboogie.com/US/Smith/class_A-images/NEW-OnLineIMAGES/Figure7.gif

"Figure 7 shows the same tube under dynamic conditions. As the input voltage swings positive, it reduces the repelling force the grid had at idle. More electrons then stream to the plate, loading it down and causing a bigger drop through the plate resistor. This ?drags down? the voltage on the plate from 100 to 50 volts. When the grid swings negative, the effect is reversed. The grid repels more electrons and causes less of a drag (or drop) through the plate load resistor allowing the voltage on the plate to rise to 150 volts. Thus the 1 volt input signal has now caused a 100-volt change at the plate. By coupling this ?fluctuating DC? through a capacitor or transformer, the DC component is blocked and only the fluctuations remain as a pure AC signal of 100 volts, or, + and - 50."

Okay, I dont get this at all. I thought I had it but then I ran into this little paragraph. So when I was reading before this bit of text they were saying that the negative electrons in the grid resists the negative in the cathode, not allowing it to get to the plate. So that would mean a turn of the knob would reduce the amount of negative electrons in the grid thus letting the electrons in the cathode reach the plate, in turn meaning larger sound, more amplitude. So whats this paragraph above mean? It seems like it totally contradicts what it just said.
#22
read up on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccuum_tube and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_amplifier#Amplifier_classes

in the little schematic you linked, you've got the cathod at the bottom which is negatively charged, electrons fly out of it (when the heaters heat it up). At the top of it you've got the plate which is positively charged to what is usually over a couple hundred volts in a guitar amp. Because its postively charged the electrons fly towards it and generate a current. In between the cathode and the plate you've got the grid, by applying a voltage to the grid you can disrupt the flow of the electrons because they'd rather go somewhere else than to the plate.
Last edited by seljer at Jul 19, 2006,
#24
Quote by im fresh to it
Thanks seljer. I have a question though. What does converting AC - DC actually do?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_current


AC and DC are 2 different types of electrical currents.

AC is good at certain things, the power you get from your wall is AC because its much easier to transport these ways (power substations have transformers that jump the power up to many thousands of volts so losses from the power lines are not a problem, something which would be a problem if we still used DC).
The audio signal coming from your guitar is also very small AC.

For the way tubes work, the voltage that is applied to the plate needs to be constant, however what you get from the wall is AC which jumps up and down. So in the amp there is a section called the rectifier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifiers which converts AC in DC which can be then used for this.
#25
Awesome. Thanks again for the help! Hopefully a better understanding of amps will help me get to somwhere I want to be with a career.
#26
So going back to my original question...

What speaker would be a good one for me? Given that the cab is going to be 4x12 and closed back.

Oh and, generally speaking, what kind of sounds do 6L6s, EL84s, EL34s, and any other tube you prefer make?
Last edited by im fresh to it at Jul 20, 2006,
#28
Quote by im fresh to it
Oh and, generally speaking, what kind of sounds do 6L6s, EL84s, EL34s, and any other tube you prefer make?


typically its something like:
EL34 = british Marshall type sound
6L6 = the more american Fender/Mesa Boogie type sound
EL84s = the Voxs, Marshall 18watt combos, Matchless...
however many modern amps allow to to switch between EL34s and 6L6s

though how the amp actually sounds is greately dependant on a huge number of other things.
#29
Quote by Funky P
amplitude is how loud the frequency is. So a lot of 10khz would be super bright, and a lot of 100mhz would be very bassy.

Ok, for a little more precise explanation of all these things... You know what a soundwave looks like. It has peaks and valleys. Frequency is how many peaks and valleys occur within a measured length of time. The faster the wave moves, the higher the frequency. Amplitude is the measurement of how high those peaks and valleys are. If there is little variation, the sound has low amplitude. If the peaks and valleys are dramatic, the sound has high amplitude.

The range of human hearing is from 20 Hz (the lowest bass note) to 20,000 Hz (the highest treble note). And every time you double the value of a frequency, you go up an octave, so 110 Hz is the note A, 220 Hz is the note A an octave higher, and 440 Hz is also the note A, an octave higher than that, etc.

An Ohm is the unit used to measure electric signal resistance, or impedence.
Hi, I'm Peter
#30
I swapped the Eminence-built GBE V-75 speaker in my El Diablo combo for a Celestion V30, and it was like getting a totally new amp. So yes, speakers do make a huge difference.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor