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#1
As a fan of good rap music, I have often had to defend the genre when faced with verbal opposition from the ignorant masses who regurgitate their tired old "Rap Is Crap" rhetoric based upon their limited knowledge of the genre, and have frequently been forced to educate, illuminate and saturate their desolate minds by shining the light on the world outwith the mainstream music television realm that houses some of the brightest and most enlightened musicians this world knows. Quite regularly on this website - where ignorance reigns supreme to borrow from a KRS-One/BDP lyric - I have, in response to some douche bag blurting out that rappers only talk about "Bling" and "Bitches", shoved their opinions back up their assholes where they normally reside, with the lyrics of Immortal Technique or Common etc.

Unfortunately, as much as it is easy to defend empty accusations that rap is full of illiterate idiots by letting those accusing read the likes of 'You Never Know' there is one aspect, predominant in rap music, that I find incredibly hard to defend. Homophobia.

ho·mo·pho·bi·a P Pronunciation Key (hm-fb-)
n.
1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.
3. A Christian belief

When I first began listening to rap music I was of a much younger age, had not matured mentally, my cock was still only like 18" long (don't laugh!) and homophobia wasn't even a word; As I strolled through the playground, 'The Chonic' in my hand, beating up homosexuals, whose orientation I couldn't understand, homophobia was about as foreign, as the Polish janitor Jan, back then I couldn't comprehend love between a man and a man. As I grew older, as my cock began to grow and homophobia was etching itself into the back pages of my vocabulary; as my interests in rap became based more in underground and socially conscious rap artists, where credibility is not based on how many times you've been shot or slapped a beeyatch, the latent homophobia became more prominent and evident. And it wasn't only the MTV-friendly ("Friendly" in that it promotes and perpetuates the idea that black people are ignorant, violent and misogynistic) likes of 50 Cent - who, despite having a bisexual mother, declared he "ain't into faggots" - or the delusional crack-induced drivel of DMX, but it was everywhere; EPMD were shouting "Faggots!" Nas was spewing out the same ignorant rubbish, Dr. Dre was saying "I don't really care about those kind of people", the Beastie Boys were talking of how they were planning on naming their first album 'Don't Be A Fagot', I couldn't believe it. It was everywhere. Even Ice Cube, star of Barbershop 1 and 2 stated "True niggas ain't gay."

I have often skirted with the idea of listening to Jedi Mind Tricks, a supposedly socially-aware rap group who often deal with politics and the hypocrisy within it, but everytime I click play I'm baraged with a cascade of tirades against homosexuals and homosexuality...

"Cause I ain't punched a faggot in his teeth in a while"

"You faggots couldn't go the length like you was impotent, you ignorant"

"That's unatural, like love between faggots!"

"Ya' team must be hidin they balls, like a faggot"

What the fuck is this crap? I start listening to Immortal Technique; he's opening my eyes and mind with his rants against oppressors, liars and hypocrites, and then starts using that word that is almost as synonymous with rap as Dio is with the devil horns sign thing that is so tired and old now, both it and he should be put down. Faggot. I'm listening to Technique talk about how Latino's are getting fucked over by the system, blacks are being fucked over by their government and I'm thinking 'Yeah, this guy is great' and then along come the "You fucking faggot" rubbish I thought I'd never hear. Brand Nubian, supposedly conscious rappers also, who claim to be against those who oppress others, wrote a song called 'Punks Jump Up To Get Beat Down' in which the band members beat up a "faggot" in front of his 'boyfriend'. Strangely enough the rap group, who lambast hypocrisy in their song 'Time Is Running Out' in an interview a couple years back tried to defend accusations of homophobia, saying "We had a problem with G.L.A.A.D. for ‘Punks Jump Up To Get Beat Down’. When we were writing that song, we weren’t thinking of it as an anti-gay song. When we said the word ‘faggot’, we were saying it in a street way." yet that excuse seems rather empty when looking at the lyrics:

"Though I can freak, fly, floow, fuck up a faggot.
Don't understand their ways I ain't down with gays."
- Brand Nubian, Punks Jump Up To Get Beat Down

Despite rapper Common dedicating a song on his incredible 'Electric Circus' album, 'Between Me, You and Liberation' to the subject of homophobia and homosexuality, in which a friend of his tells him he is gay, resulting in Common stating "How could I judge him? Had to accept him if I truly loved him" and recent declarations that "The rampant homophobia in hip-hop is appalling" the rapper has been criticised often for his homophobic lyrics pre-Electric Circus. Common's friend and producer of his latest brilliant offering, Be, Kanye West admits to being homophobic as he was growing up, a defense-mechanism against the frequent taunts of "Mama's boy" that resulted because he didn't wish to 'Gat a mother' or 'Smoke some bluntz and drinkizzle some 40's'. Kanye has been rather vocal about the homophobia he sees as endemic in the rap genre and should be applauded for the fact he doesn't adhere to the idiocy displayed by so many of his peers.

"Well in the back wit ya faggot ass face down/Lucky that you breathin’ cause you dead from the waist down."
- DMX

"I can’t believe that dog would dis me/That faggot, that punk, piss on that sissy."
- Snoop Dogg

"Hate fags? The answer’s yes."
- Eminem

"I switch styles like a faggot, not bisexual..."
- Half Time, Nas

What is the reason for this homophobicness? It kind of reminds me of something I read in a biography on Martin Luther King Jr. and it was talking about how when he and hundreds, thousands of people were walking through Chicago, they were met with fierce opposition in the form of stones and racial slurs and jibes from the redneck Christian crackers that lined the street (people who still exist in the world and have handed down their views to their sons who have done likewise who see any semblance of change or tolerance as "political correctness gone mad" nowadays) and in the back of this, another minority who only a couple decades before were treated in very much the same way as MLK and his true American followers, the Jewish community, were dishing out the same racist rubbish and arguments against the Civil Rights Movements beliefs in equality, alongside the rednecks. Reading that, I recall thinking how much it was like the kid in school who get's bullied and then some other kid comes in who likes AFI or some other queer ass music and then sides with the bully and starts hitting the havok out of little new kid Davey, hoping the bully won't turn on him. I see parallels in that and what is occuring with rappers - and essentially, though of course this could be construed as racist and somewhat of a generalisation, the black community - towards homosexuals.

Although of course maybe homophobia exists within rap simply because it co-incides with the whole self-promotion and machismo that is a staple of rap music. To express how much better you are than your opponent, how much more bling you got, how many more Lincoln Continental's and Sunroof Cadillac's you have. To be more of a man than the other guy, to have bigger balls, a smaller IQ, a bigger love for yo' mama (as long as she ain't no "Frisco Dyke"...) maybe homophobia is simply an extension of this, 'I suck titties motherfucker, I bench press 900lbs bitch, I ain't no fag because being a fag would mean associating myself with the more feminine side of humanity, implying that instead of gatting yo' ass (which is a much better example to children and far more praiseworthy and credible) I'm fucking it. I ain't be doin' dat sheet. I'm a rapper and whatsmore I'm a rapper that wants to get onto the radio and music television so therefore have to become less intelligent and more violent and intolerant so that the youth of today have a proper role model and won't think about becoming something with their lives and taking over from the rich assholes that own the companies that promote my ignorance'. Whatever the reason, it's annoying, and simply undefendable.

And it pisses this cracker off!
Last edited by Chungavelli at Jul 26, 2006,
#2
I would have taken a different and more mature approach to the argument but your views are correct to an extent.
#3
us latinos are being ****ed over... but that **** aint right i noticed that too, no matter how far i delved into the genre it still had that ignorance so i left that genre alltogether because i believe people have the right to believe whatever they want
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#4
Quote by Hexagram
I would have taken a different and more mature approach to the argument but your views are correct to an extent.


Mature?
#5
Quote by Chungavelli
Mature?

i guess hexagram means less obscene language i mean with verbal skills like that your not gonna get friendly looks from the older generation just smirks and im not sure about job offers
#7
Quote by crash_course
personally i still think rap is crap all they talk about is getting **** with skank hoes no **** so many ppl have stds ive listened to rap for a few years and ive gotten so sick of it there are a few artists that i like eminem being one of them but only his old stuff its funny now his albums are garbage but i found this a waste of a thread no offense but think about it how many UGers are into RAP


Yeah, you're a fucking idiot. Why bother posting? This forum is for music OTHER than those contained within the other forums. Quite a few people like rap music here, and even more, unlike yourself, have an IQ that is at a higher number than their age, and can at least comprehend and understand the topic. Your limited knowledge of the genre should prohibit you from even bothering to respond. Contained within my initial post was a few comments on the ignorance shown by people like you and yet you display that ignorance seemingly oblivious to what I said. Seriously dude, fuck off to the Rock forum or whatever, you're a waste of space here.
#8
Quote by Gman400
Jesus, Chungavelli, who the **** cares? You spend way to much time writing this crap up for a guitar message board. If it was an essay for school or personal interest that'd be one thing but really, who wants to read this crap? I read like half of it and that was to much. Rap will always be an inferior form of "music" simply for poor ******s to spew their beliefs everywhere to an uneducated mass.


You acknowledge that I spend way "to" much time writing this crap, but ask who the **** cares? Obviously myself. That's why I spent way "to" much time writing that crap. I wrote this crap and quite frankly, maybe because I have a dominant Id or due to the fact I've got time on my hands and realise that forums are designed for people to discuss different issues, I'd like to read it. Your last sentence almost justified not even responding to your ignorant ass but my mother always taught me to "be nice to retards."
#10
Did you consider that it stems from the social stereotypes put forth in America, which are primarily founded upon christian beliefs (read: homo-haters)?

Many rappers seem to be all about being the top dawg, and in order to be top dawg (alpha male), they must exude the most manliness possible. Society tells them that being a flaming homo is one of the most anti-manly things you can do. Surely this would make homos a target in their lyrical expressions?

-SD
#11
Quote by SilentDeftone
Did you consider that it stems from the social stereotypes put forth in America, which are primarily founded upon christian beliefs (read: homo-haters)?

Many rappers seem to be all about being the top dawg, and in order to be top dawg (alpha male), they must exude the most manliness possible. Society tells them that being a flaming homo is one of the most anti-manly things you can do. Surely this would make homos a target in their lyrical expressions?

-SD


Definately. And yeah, I wasn't purporting to have all the answers, or to contain them all within the initial post, I was meaning for it to be more open to debate, wonderment (not sure if your first sentence was rhetorical or not...)
#12
Two things:
1. I'm surprised that Eminem would say that, especially after this line from his debut album, the The Slim Shady LP, fromt he song, "The Real Slim Shady":
They got the Discovery Channel don't they?
"We ain't nothing but mammals.." Well, some of us cannibals
who cut other people open like cantaloupes [*SLURP*]
But if we can hump dead animals and antelopes
then there's no reason that a man and another man can't elope


2. I really couldn't care less.
#13
Quote by MastaBassist10
Two things:
1. I'm surprised that Eminem would say that, especially after this line from his debut album, the The Slim Shady LP, fromt he song, "The Real Slim Shady":
They got the Discovery Channel don't they?
"We ain't nothing but mammals.." Well, some of us cannibals
who cut other people open like cantaloupes [*SLURP*]
But if we can hump dead animals and antelopes
then there's no reason that a man and another man can't elope


2. I really couldn't care less.


Isnt that lyric followed by Eminem going "Urgh!"? I thought it was quite well known that he is quite the homophobe despite the Elton John duet thing.
#15
I do listen to some hip hop/rap but not enough to encounter much homophobia in the songs. I think a some of it could stem from gangsta rap from the early 90s with groups like the NWA as this was the earliest I know of people refering to woman as hoes/bitches etc and with these were the times the rappers of today were gaining their influences. I don't listen to much 80s rap/hip hop but from what I do listen to, it was a lot more harmless (eg Kurtis Blow)
Like SD said about the Alpha Male image, and I guess this stems from the gangsta rap image which I would guess stem from the rough communities these guys grew up in eg Compton for example. It is pretty horrible, but I think all that dancehall stuff is even worse for homophobia.
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#16
God hates fags.


I kid.
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#17
Quote by Chungavelli
Isnt that lyric followed by Eminem going "Urgh!"? I thought it was quite well known that he is quite the homophobe despite the Elton John duet thing.

No, but there is a sample that goes "Eww", but not his voice, more a voice of some little, immature girl. I don't know much about him, other than that he's white, and has more guts than most black rappers.
Last edited by MastaBassist10 at Jul 26, 2006,
#18
Quote by MastaBassist10
No, but there is a sample that goes "Eww", but not his voice, more a voice of some little, immature girl. I don't know much about him, other than that he's white, and has more guts than most black rappers.


And that he got progressively worse through his career...
#19
That was interesting. I'm a little disappointed to learn that some underground artists have homophobic lyrics. The MTV, huge record label artists - it's no secret that a lot of that trash is homophobic, but the masses buy into it because right now it's all about being the big macho man with a lot of stuff. I don't really see homophobia dying any time soon, especially with all the fuss over gay marriage going on. It's too bad.

Anyway, nice job.
#22
Chung I have reccomendation for youand it is the band E-Town Concrete. Very socially aware overall and great lyrics. It is rapcore so if you can tolerate some hardcore vocals then you're in for a treat.

With that said I do beleive that rappers say those type of things just to seem tougher and bigger to the media.

I personally dont have a vendetta with homosexuals but I do find it wrong but Im not going to go and spew out my opinion and PROMOTE violence towards others.
Originally posted by J_Dizzle
THAAAANK YOU GoodCharloteSux is god
#23
Quote by GoodCharloteSux
Chung I have reccomendation for youand it is the band E-Town Concrete. Very socially aware overall and great lyrics. It is rapcore so if you can tolerate some hardcore vocals then you're in for a treat.

With that said I do beleive that rappers say those type of things just to seem tougher and bigger to the media.

I personally dont have a vendetta with homosexuals but I do find it wrong but Im not going to go and spew out my opinion and PROMOTE violence towards others.


Just downloaded a couple songs. My mum would never let me listen to that...

Homosexuality ain't wrong.
#24
Quote by SilentDeftone
John Coltrane?

-SD

Ah, but I said almost. John Coltrane probably would have crapped out if he didn't die anyways, despite being possibly the best musician in Western culture ever.
#25
This is a good read Chung, I've taken the liberty of deleting a couple of idiotic responses.

I don't know the true extent of rappers religious beliefs, but from what I've understood over the time of hearing rap is that a lot like to try and come across as being Christian. The Church doesn't really support homosexuality (despite performing gay marriages and having gay vicars) and maybe its a belief that they have picked up from a young age due to religion?
It is the whole masculinity thing as well though definitely, and once one rapper says something slightly against what the public are starting to accept, another has to get on board to prove that they're just as straight. It's rather pathetic, but I'm sure its partly the reason some people will enjoy the music as it has warped them into thinking exactly the same thing.
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#26
Quote by andrewbiles
This is a good read Chung, I've taken the liberty of deleting a couple of idiotic responses.

I don't know the true extent of rappers religious beliefs, but from what I've understood over the time of hearing rap is that a lot like to try and come across as being Christian. The Church doesn't really support homosexuality (despite performing gay marriages and having gay vicars) and maybe its a belief that they have picked up from a young age due to religion?
It is the whole masculinity thing as well though definitely, and once one rapper says something slightly against what the public are starting to accept, another has to get on board to prove that they're just as straight. It's rather pathetic, but I'm sure its partly the reason some people will enjoy the music as it has warped them into thinking exactly the same thing.


Yeah, I think Christianity plays quite an influential part in it. As aforementioned, dancehall music is very much entangled in homophobia and is practically synonymous with Christianity.
#27
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+1
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#28
But, like I said before, I'm not going to let it affect my enjoyment of rap. Hell, the on/off producer for Public Enemy is anti-semetic, and being a Jew, that insults me, but I still like Public Enemy.
#29
Quote by Chungavelli
Just downloaded a couple songs. My mum would never let me listen to that...

Homosexuality ain't wrong.


your wit has confused me what do you ean your mother wouldnt let you listen to that, to vulgar?

Being religous it is to me.
Originally posted by J_Dizzle
THAAAANK YOU GoodCharloteSux is god
#30
Quote by GoodCharloteSux
your wit has confused me what do you ean your mother wouldnt let you listen to that, to vulgar?

Being religous it is to me.


The first part was a joke, the music sounded okay, I'll listen to more tomorrow. As for the second part, being religious should mean that the Earth doesn't move and that the Sun moves round it. It requires a hell of alot of ignorance, you have to admire people for that.
#31
We all have our opinions and I dont hate gays I just dont promote it is all. Dont think Im one of those idiots who goes to their church/synagogue/or etc. and just gabs around once a week. am very knowledgable in what I beleive in, I personally read the bible and I beleive in it so when I read that homosexuality is sin thats what I beleive. Dont think me just saying Im religous means Im shying away from anything or using it as an exuse to hate gays.

more on topic I think hip hop/rap artist use it kind of as a tough guy persona type thing. I have never been a rap "enthusiaste"(sp?) but I always had an appreciation for the old school crap for the pure fact it wasnt about guns and ho's, it was baout having a good time and loking around and see whats going in where these people live and etc.
Originally posted by J_Dizzle
THAAAANK YOU GoodCharloteSux is god
Last edited by GoodCharloteSux at Jul 26, 2006,
#32
Quote by Chungavelli
Yeah, I think Christianity plays quite an influential part in it. As aforementioned, dancehall music is very much entangled in homophobia and is practically synonymous with Christianity.


Which is another hypocrisy in rap. Don't like fags because of christian beliefs but the same artists have no problem embracing avarice, lust, envy, sloth, wrath and other things more frown upon by a true forgiving maker. So I don't think that is their motivation.

I doubt rappers take christianity into account. I doubt they really care. Mostly I think it is for shock value. M&M's audience is mostly pre-pubecent males going through puberty. So, M&M thinks, I will talk about hating queers. It gives them something to be cool for doing. It is all for cash thus M&M's duet with John. Publicity and more headline for the money grubbing attention whõre. M&M would let a gay guy blow him on tape if enough money was in play. I think the whole thing is playing on the social idea of not liking what everyone else doesn't like. I doubt a person who's sole goal in life is owning the biggest hummer has the most profound of muse when it come to writing their material.
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#33
Sorry, I didn't thouroughouroughly read your thread, But I believe I caught the ji(zz)st of it.

And that is why I avoid Mainstream hip-hop. Have you listened to Atmosphere? Not really a hardcore-social-awareness-promoter-rapper, but he is known for actually rapping about emotions and junk, like a normal songwriter does, and not about how much ice he's packing in his grill, and what his SUV be riding on, in terms of diameter in inches.
But I suggest you give some of his stuff a spin. I have the albums "Seven's Travels" & "Headshots"
Also, I would suggest Aesop Rock...has some great stuff. I suggest the album "Fast Cars, Danger, Fire & Knives"

Funny thing, I threw on Jamie Kennedy and Stu Stone "Blowin' Up" for the first time since I bought and one skit is an interview with Jamie (acting as a gay) and the next song is were the Gay Rapper raps about bologna (as a [homo]sexual metaphor). But this is meant to be imparted with humour, and not in a Homophoebic way....I guess.

I commend you for taking the time to type all that out.
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#34
Maybe they're all just hiding something...you know, in the way that all kids are told that bullies act that way because they're really wimps inside.

Saying that, I have to praise Non-Phixion's rhyming of Black Sabbath with Crack Faggots. Cunning.
#35
Alot of it (in more educated rap) seems toungue in cheek to me, just following cliches parodically or without really thinking (the same way that kids denounce events and occurances as 'gay' without the term 'homosexual' even entering their minds). Having said that, i'd be pissed off by some of these lyrics if I was gay...
#36
Nice thread, i liked this very much. With regards to Immortal Technique, He says "I never make songs to disrespect woman, or to judge people about the way that they're living, but the way I am is based on the life I was given" So i suppose the way he uses word's like 'faggot' and the like only reflect on where and how he was brought up.
#37
I don't think it has much to do with Christianity. Kanye West is openly Christian and not homophobic. Same for me.
#39
Good stuff. Anti-gay lyrics really offend me. I wouldn't mind homophobic lyrics quite as much if they didn't have such a strong fallout on weak-minded idiots. Alot of people near me are heavily into mainstream ganster rap. They just suck up the idea that bling, hos and cars are all there is to life and there's a really strong homophobic atmosphere. People get cursed at, yelled at from passing cars, stuff thrown at them etc. Cuz that's just how da uppa middle class gangsta's roll all up in dis bitch.


Just for the record though I mostly don't blame rap music or rap culture for it. I blame idioicy and the top dog mentality meantioned here. If these fools weren't such sheep they wouldn't be such assholes.


EDIT: When I say anti-gay lyrics offend me I mean stuff along the lines of "Kill a faggot, rape a dyke straight, if I see a man kiss another man I'll cut off his balls while his boyfriend watches.", kinda stuff. If it's just reffering to something bad as gay I won't take that person seriously but I won't be offended all that much.
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#40
as a musical form i think hip hop has always relied on verbal attacks on a deliberately absurd scale. the police, women, other black people, other black people's mothers, all figures of authority, Koreans, gays, Jews, whites, midgets, even marmozets and trapeze artists. pretty much anything insulting is pressed into use as an art form. i dont see much point in getting sensitive about a certain aspect of it, you may as well attack the whole thing as generally offensive if it really bothers you. the problem perhaps arises with idiots like eminem who only attack woman and gays and shy away from the N word for example, then you start to look like a nazi. but as long as you just insult everything equally its fine. which perhaps makes sense in way
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