#1
All right, heres the deal.
I play everything from funk to metal and everything in betwen.
I need a good clean sound but yet a high gained distortion channel.
I also need a nice crunch(think AC/DC zeppelin etc etc..).
So Ive been looking into some diffrent combos.

Mesa Boogie F-30
Genz Benz El Diablo
ENGL Screamer 50
Laney VC 50 (Old combo version of the VH)
Rivera Clubster 25w

Now the problem is my local musicstore only got The Mesa and the Laney and they can probably get me the Rivera. So I those are the only ones I can try out.
Ive heard clips of the Engl and I was leaning towards it for awhile. But I don't know if I like the brightness of it Ive also heard some mesa clips I really liked the ´distorstion but Im afraid it wont get me from funk to metal. Plz help me out!
If you got some other suggestion please let me know! Price range: 1200US Dollar
#2
I'd probably get the el-diablo.

I'd say it's a toss-up between the screamer and el diablo, but for me, the el-diablo. And that's with it costing £200 more here- if it's the same price there, I'd go with the el-diablo- the $1200 for the screamer doesn't include the footswitch.

The clubster probably isn't modern enough for the heavier tones.

The mesa sounds a little too modern in that it sounds metallic to me even with the contour disengaged.

laney would be worth a try- but I think the screamer and el-diablo are better.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#3
Thx Dave for the answer! If anyone would answer I figured it would be you!
Well thing is Im a bit worried about the cleans of the el diablo as you describe the Engl got fender like cleans. Im also worried about the softer crunch of the el diablo I know the Engl can pull that of easy. Also the fact that the El diablo is very dark meanwhile the Engl is very bright. That is what bothers me the most! Thing is I don't know if I like dark voicing or bright. What should I do?
Also the laney have wheels on it that kinda annoys me and I don't know how the high gained it really is..
#4
^ the laney, assuming it is the same as the vh (haven't tried that combo version) should have plenty of gain for most applications. It's pretty bright too. Maybe not just so good for the lower gain tones.

The cleans on the diablo are really very good. As are the crunch tones (both in my opinion). You do have one less channel than the engl though- in the engl you have clean, classic rock, hard rock, and metal, on the diablo you have clean, classic or hard rock (you kind of have to choose) and then metal.

I think the diablo has better tone, though. And you can dial the darkness out (at least I could). the attack button (bit like a presence, but more than that) helps in this respect- and it's footswitchable.

Basically, try the laney, and try the mesa. In my opinion, and from memory, the lany sounds kind of like a cross between a mesa and an engl (though it has a brighter clean than the engl, I think). so if you like th mesa, you like dark. and if you like the laney, you like bright.

I know it sucks, since it's annoying when you can't get to try stuff.

Any way you could get them to get the el-diablo in, tell them something like "i'll buy one of your amps, but I hear great things about the ED, and would like to try it head to head with those other ones you have".

they might not do it, though.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#5
With a price range like that I would suggest looking into Orange. I recently got the Rocker 30 combo which is plenty loud for any small to medium sized venue plus rehearsal. The clean channel is phenomenal, just your natural guitar sound and nothing more. The dirty channel can very easily obtain that british crunch that is associated with Angus Young and AC/DC (even though they use Marshall) and with the gain cranked all the way up it gets pretty dirty. The only genres you cant really play on it are metal and hardcore but a good OD pedal can fix that.
#6
Quote by rockxwl
With a price range like that I would suggest looking into Orange. I recently got the Rocker 30 combo which is plenty loud for any small to medium sized venue plus rehearsal. The clean channel is phenomenal, just your natural guitar sound and nothing more. The dirty channel can very easily obtain that british crunch that is associated with Angus Young and AC/DC (even though they use Marshall) and with the gain cranked all the way up it gets pretty dirty. The only genres you cant really play on it are metal and hardcore but a good OD pedal can fix that.

Thx, but I don't think it can cut it gain wise. I wan't more gain than I will ever need and I know It will dissapoint though I've heard its a great amp!
#7
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ the laney, assuming it is the same as the vh (haven't tried that combo version) should have plenty of gain for most applications. It's pretty bright too. Maybe not just so good for the lower gain tones.

The cleans on the diablo are really very good. As are the crunch tones (both in my opinion). You do have one less channel than the engl though- in the engl you have clean, classic rock, hard rock, and metal, on the diablo you have clean, classic or hard rock (you kind of have to choose) and then metal.

I think the diablo has better tone, though. And you can dial the darkness out (at least I could). the attack button (bit like a presence, but more than that) helps in this respect- and it's footswitchable.

Basically, try the laney, and try the mesa. In my opinion, and from memory, the lany sounds kind of like a cross between a mesa and an engl (though it has a brighter clean than the engl, I think). so if you like th mesa, you like dark. and if you like the laney, you like bright.

I know it sucks, since it's annoying when you can't get to try stuff.

Any way you could get them to get the el-diablo in, tell them something like "i'll buy one of your amps, but I hear great things about the ED, and would like to try it head to head with those other ones you have".

they might not do it, though.
CHECK THE EDITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well I tried to get them to order home a El Diablo but they wouldn't let me so thats out of question. They will eventually get ENGL's later on, in easter about. But I've been saving for a long time now and my patient is runing low. Also the Laney is used so I probably won't get it ( Had some real bad experiences). Im really worried that Im buying something blindly that will dissapoint me.. Another thought that struck me was that I perhaps could make the Engl more dark? Im kinda leaning more towards it though it does have shared EQ afraid that will anoy me like hell for a long run I know that!
Some things tell me that I shoudn't get the ED for starters: the design and crunchmeisters clips didn't impress me too much kinda dissapointing tone if you ask me.. though the Engl clip didn't really get me either. Well it sore sounds aggresive enough and all and I liked it, but the brightness was kinda too much.. Thats why Im more into getting the Screamer darker though you say the DB have better tone. Also does the DB have some nice sustain? I know screamer does but what about the DB?
I need a good shred tone too will the DB cover that?Ah what the hell... I can't pick!
Last edited by Iliketapping at Jul 27, 2006,
#8
I think the Diablo too. But what about the JCM2000 TSL? It can get pretty heavy, but also has a great Marshall crunch channel and also a clean channel thats not too bad.
#11
Well... ehh.. Yes... I've had a DSL and I didn't like it.. And I know the TSL is quite similiar
#14
ok, these are my opinions, but here you go:

el diablo pwns the rocker 30. Especially for heavy tones. The rocker 30 can be a little muddy/squidgy.

Dsl pwns the tsl. If you didn't like the dsl, the tsl is worse.

i hear you can make a screamer darker with an EQ. but I haven't tried it.

I still say el diablo. aren't there any GB dealers near you? there's a list of dealers on their website, might be worth a look.

marshalls are cheaper than GB/mesa etc... this side of the pond....
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#15
Well...
How does the ED sound on low volumes? How is the Screamer on low volumes?
What abot shred and sustain how are the both amps on that?( Im a tapper as you can tell)
Also the screamer have a shared EQ... Turns me down a bit.. Will the ED be aggressive sounding like the Screamer?
Ah lol! We don't even got a single Genz Benz dealer in Sweden!
Last edited by Iliketapping at Jul 27, 2006,
#16
^ unfortunately, they both sound pretty great, lol. They both sound good at low volumes. shred and sustain are good on both. the ED is as agressive as a screamer. at least, I'd say.

i realise I'm not helping much, but the major problem is, it's very much personal preference. and it sucks that you can't get to try it...
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#17
No Problem.. The only thing Ive got left to do now is to see If I like dark or bright.. Id better be off to the music store and try the Laney and the Mesa... Would help out the most!
#18
^ aye, but just remember the laney has a little darkness in there too- it's kind of bright and dark at the same time... hard to explain- it has a lot of treble, but some low mids too. also, the clean on the screamer is similar to the laney vh clean.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
The only thing I can suggest is using web sites like harmonycentral.com or other similar sites that allow users to post reviews on musical gear. That way you can read about the good and bad that players have come across with different gear.
#20
Mesa can do funk.... No prob

Turn you master volume up... gain down... cut the bass... grab a 70s strat in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th position and you are there.

It can do jazz fusion well to because of mesa's inherently thick and complex mid range.

And you should be able to know that the mesa F series can still get into metal... It won't be as heavy as a recto... but you don't have the recto cab... power supply and extra gain stage.... But mesa wouldn't make a practice amp that can't go through metal.

Cheers
My Favorite Rig Of The Moment

Fender American Strat -> Barber Tone Press -> Xotic AC Booster -> Keeley TS9 -> Hughes & Kettner TubeFactor -> Fender Blues Junior
#21
I may be a little biased here, but I'd also suggest the El Diablo. Seeing as how tonal versatility seems to be your biggest concern, I think it would be the best choice, as it's the most tonally diverse tube amp I've heard outside of the Mesa Road King.

The Warm channel on the El Diablo is what stood out to me the most when I first tried it. It produced incredibly clear, clean tones, even with my Agile's bridge EMG 81, which left me rather in awe. The only better cleans I can think of off-hand are perhaps a vintage Fender or a Boogie Mk-series. You can take this channel all the way up to a nice bluesy purr.

The Hot channel will give you up to 8 different voicings (all accessible from the foot switch) ranging from a light crunch perfect for classic rock (AC/DC tones live in the amp) to face-melting metal. The amp is very dark sounding when used in triode (half power) mode, but can get very bright in pentode (full power) mode. It's pretty easy to dian brightness in or out to your taste.

For this channel, you have a lot of options. You can add 'power' to your gain in stages. First, you can have the hot channel 'clean' without any of the other sonic enhancements. This is the lightest drive this channel can produce. Kick in the compression, and it adds a nice edge and bite. Next, you can activate the high gain switch to kick it up another notch for more modern gain. Next, modern gain with compression will hit high metal territory without problems.

Personally, I only like the attack setting when using it as a boost or when I need extra bite for cleans. It's one of these settings that doesn't work well when kept activated all the time.

Running at half power doesn't really have much effect on your volume, but it does make a huge difference in tone. It's really like having 2 different amps. Runnign at full power, you have an in-your-face lead machine. At half power, it sounds more like a small vintage tube combo with high gain as an option.

The only realy suggestion I have if you get the ED is to change the tubes when you get it. The stock Ruby Reds are high quality tubes, but they're not the best choice if you plan on going down the metal route. Ruby Reds are Carlos Santana's tubes of choice, so that should tell you what type of sound they're best suited for. I installed a set of JJs (high gain tubes for preamp) and it sounds incredible for all types of music now.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
Last edited by Crunchmeister at Jul 28, 2006,
#22
Thx For the Help Crunch! I really appreciated it. But Im not sure yet... The Screamer is good... But I have now faced the fact that the ED is better. Yet Im not yet sure. Im worried I will dissapointed
#23
Well, I wouldn't say the ED is better. That's pretty subjective. I just think that judging by how you articulated your needs and concerns, it would be the better choice for you due to its tonal diversity. Either way though, I'm sure you'd end up with a great amp. The ENGL Screamer is a pretty good amp all around too.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
#24
^ I pretty much second everything crunch said, except I liked the attack knob activated.

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
It seems Im going for the El Diablo...
The Engl sure is nice BUT It's hard to get it more darker. Also it have a shared EQ.
Well it also depends on the price here in Sweden....
What is the listprice?
As said earlier there is no Genz Benz dealer in Sweden :S:

I think Im set on the El Diablo!
#26
Just thought I'd also mention that the EQs on the El Diablo are active, so a small change in settings can make a big difference in tone. After 6 months with this amp, I'm still exploring and discovering new tones all the time. It's great.
Guitars: Custom Lado Earth 2000-3, Custom ESP Explorer, BC Rich KKV, Gibson LP Studio, Greco SG, El Degas Stratocaster, Agile AL-3000, LTD EX-351

Rig:Marshall JVM410H + Marshall 1960A, Boss Noise Suppressor
#27
^ aye, true, they're active. Engl EQ are great and very responsive, but active they're not, lol.

Well, going by northern ireland (you'd assume sweden would be similar) the genz benz is £1100 list, £1000 or £900 street, and the screamer is about £800 street (including the good footswitch). If you're strapped for cash though, you can buy a cheaper footswitch and save about £100.

So yeah, the ED will probably be a bit more.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?