#1
For they last month I had been using the Hopscoth Method Lesson on this site to help me with music theory/soloing/etc. and I just learned it was all wrong. I read post by a user who said the modes for different keys start on different notes, and the way he explained made it seem the mode pattern always starts on the root note, and then different parts of it are the Ionian, Dorian, Phyrigian, Lydian, Mixolydian, etc. But now I learn that themode pattern actually starts on a different note for different keys for different modes, and that was about the point where my head exploded. Can somebody please, for the love of Chuck Berry, explain what hell my problem is?

Thanks.
#2
Well, in short.

C major

Modes of C major are

C Ionian

D Dorian

E Phrygian

F Lydian

G Mixolydian

A Aeolian

B Locrian


Modes with root at C are

C Ionian - C D E F G A B C

C Dorian - C D Eb F G A Bb C

C Phrygian - C Db Eb F G Ab Bb C

C Lydian - C D E F# G A B C

C Mixolydian - C D E F G A Bb C

C Aeolian - C D Eb F G Ab Bb C

C Locrian - C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C


Looking back, that probably didn't help you. Oh well. Too late to get too into it.
#3
Okay, so say I'm in the key of C Major and I want Spanish sounding progression. So I'm going the use the Phrygian Mode. So, am I going to use C phrygian mode and and start out on the 4th fret with the mode pattern, or am I going to use the E phrygian mode, which would use the same notes as are in C Major. Which doesn't make any sense, so I'm guessing I'm going to use the C phrygian mode.
#5
A good way to remember your modes is to use the first letter of each mode so you would have I D P L M A L and then make a sentence out of them like this one....I Donky Punch Like Muhammad ALi, and I really do too.
#6
Quote by gamayshark
Okay, so say I'm in the key of C Major and I want Spanish sounding progression. So I'm going the use the Phrygian Mode. So, am I going to use C phrygian mode and and start out on the 4th fret with the mode pattern, or am I going to use the E phrygian mode, which would use the same notes as are in C Major. Which doesn't make any sense, so I'm guessing I'm going to use the C phrygian mode.


just use E phygian (to be in key of C major) over a E minor 7 chord to really get the sound of the mode. The sound of a mode largly depends on what chord (or bass note) you play under it.
#7
I guess what i need to know is whether or not the hopscotch modes lesson is wrong or not. Because from what you've told me it is right, and from the article a previous poster put up it sounds right as well. I guess what I need to know is how long each mode can go for. Because if, in C Major, D Dorian mode starts on D, therefore the 10th fret, when does it end? This is what confuses the hell out of me about modes. I get the thing about flattened 3rd, 7ths, etc., but I'm just not sure if the mode can use only those notes, or if we can combine modes, or add notes from the major scale.

Also, I need a clear explanation over what modes to use over what chord progressions in what keys. I understand that phrygian works best for minor 7s, but, what I don't get is would I use Cm7 with E phrygian because its in the key of C, or would I use Em7, because the mode starts on E. And then, if it were the latter, would I use C phrygian for Cm7.
#8
Modes get their distinctive sound from the chords underneath them. Modes are used when you're in a given key but the chord progression resolves to a chord other than the tonic. I'm not sure if I phrased that right, but here's an example. If you're in the key of C major, if you wanted a phrygian sound, you'd have the progression resolve to an E minor chord. So look at it this way- You're still in the key of C major, except instead of you're bass note being a C, it becomes an E because your chord progression is resolving to that E (the E minor chord). So if you take all the notes of C major, only start on E, you have the E phrygian mode.

So in other words, you can't just bust out in phrygian any time you feel like it, you have to have the right chords being played under your solo. That's why it's so difficult to hear the differences between the modes if you just run up and down the scales, you need to have chords in the background to really hear the differences.

I hope that helped.

EDIT: Not to confuse you any more, but if you have a chord progression in E phrygian, you can play any modes of C major and have them sound "phrygian" because, after all, they all have the same notes. Everything is going to want to resolve to an E note, so you can play any mode of C major that you want. Remember, all the modes of C have the same notes, they just get divided into the different modal positions because it's the easiest way to get 2 octaves out of a single position.
Last edited by Clownmite at Aug 7, 2006,
#9
Okay so the chord progression has to resolve to the chord of the mode your in, i.e. G7 in mixolydian in C major? I get that it all has to do with the chords you use to create the sound, but I guess I don't get where to use the chords. So would G mixolydian over a progression of say, C, B, F, G7, work because it ends in G7, the fifth note of C major and a dominant seven, which has a lowered seventh, which the mixolydian has also?
#10
yes, but it would have to be a C Maj, B Min7b5, F Maj, and G7. its like this:

Cmaj (scale)- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8(1)

Cmaj (chord)-1 3 5 (7)- if you want a maj 7th chord

D Dorian 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8

Dmin7 1 b3 5 b7

and so on....

the chords that are in a key are derived from the modes of that key.

http://urp.home.cyberverse.com/Diatonic.html
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--Saul "Slash" Hudson

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#11
so before you can do anything on any mode, you have to sit and think for a freaking hour, about what chord progression it is, what notes of which mode best fit that progression, and which note it resolves to? how am i supposed to improvise? is this something that comes with time and memorization, or can it be done by key, what? i wanna use modes more, but mostly now ive just used a mode with the notes of that key that is best for multiple hammer ons and good bends.