#1
Quote by HH's MySpace Page
Due to recent events we have decided to leave Victory Records. Our departure is anything but amicable. We have decided to leave Victory, in part due to the actions of the man who sits at the head of the label, Tony Brummel. Tony Brummel is a man that cares more about his ego and bank account than the bands themselves.

Many of you are familiar with the greed driven letters sent out by Mr. Brummel: his manifesto calling rock supporters to arms and virtual declaration of war on hip-hop and Ne-Yo done under the guise of a band message; as well as the street-team letter which instructed people to re-arrange our CDs, putting them in higher visibility areas in stores. Unfortunately, the head of street-team, Abby Valentine, who understandably resigned following the incident, took the fall for this. At the time of the letters we were branded as racists by some, all over a letter we did NOT write, targeting a genre which we have NOTHING against whatsoever. Because of these letters, our second album debuted at ..3 on the charts, an incredible feat, which would normally be cause for joy, but now is tainted much like Barry Bonds statistics.

When questioned about the letters Tony was more upset that we had told the press that he actually wrote the letters (not us) because he was more worried about rumors surrounding Taking Back Sunday and Thursdays exoduses being justified than the credibility and reputation of his current biggest band.

Couple these letters with him threatening the head program director at Q101 in Chicago for putting the new Taking Back Sunday song into rotation to the point in which the program director pulls Saying Sorry from rotation and you can see why we would more than question whether or not the head of our label cares about us or his own ego more.

Tony is a man whose greed knows no bounds. After selling more than 1.2 million copies of The Silence In Black and White and If Only You Were Lonely, we have never seen a single dollar in artist royalties from Victory Records. Tony will claim that we have not recouped, a term used by those in the music business which means the label has spent more money in advertising than has been made by CD sales. In fact questionable accounting practices are the culprit and we are in fact owed substantial amounts of money much like audits from Taking Back Sunday, Thursday and Atreyu have uncovered.

You may be wondering, why now? Why did they wait three years before saying something? Why did they sound happy in that interview??? Like being in an abusive relationship, we let certain things slide as we were afraid, as many of the bands on Victory are, to stick our neck out for fear of being beaten, in this case represented by the threat of not being promoted as has been the case with certain bands on the roster. Were done being abused. The reasons stated above represent the final straw in a huge pile of hay that broke our backs.

Undoubtedly Tony will proclaim that we are ungrateful and our success was due solely to his promotional efforts. In reality, promotion is only a portion of the equation in a bands success. Even then, in our case especially, promotional efforts can be attributed to the hard work of the band and staff at Victory, many of whom recently resigned or were fired due to differences with Tony. Non-stop touring, dedicated fans and songs (we challenge Tony to sell over 1 million blank CDs) account for the rest of the equation.

Weve accomplished more in three years than most bands do in a lifetime and for that we are extremely grateful and consider ourselves very fortunate. Our situation with Tony Brummel is indicative of issues that all bands on Victory Records encounter on some level or another.

We have decided to remove ourselves from the negative situation so that we can continue to do what we love best and focus on writing and playing music to people that care about what we have created.

Hawthorne Heights


I'm not sure how much of this to believe, but either way: you've got to respect HH for having the bottle to leave Victory. I can't believe they got nothing from CD royalties, that's harsh
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██
████████████████████
██
████████████████████
██████████████████████
#2
As much as I dislike Hawthorne Heights, I do respect them for doing that if what they've said is true.

How can Victory claim to have spent 1.2 million CD sales worth on promotion?

Also, what were you doing on Hawthorne Heights' myspace page?
there is no fear in this heart.



Quote by ETHANEVIL
How am I being or trying to be fabulous/glamorous?



#3
I still don't have as much pity as I would a non emo band. They make their money off of making kids feel even more sad. But I do know that victory records is shady. Good job for leaving though.
#4
Quote by NoneMoreBlack
I still don't have as much pity as I would a non emo band. They make their money off of making kids feel even more sad. But I do know that victory records is shady. Good job for leaving though.


You moron.

I'm not sure about how I fell about Victory, I'd need to hear more from other sources, but it IS a common ploy to use these sorts of tactics (most specifically recoup scams) to dupe newly successful bands.
Live fast, die young.
#5
Quote by the_astronaut
How can Victory claim to have spent 1.2 million CD sales worth on promotion?


I know! That's a total of £12million (assuming each CD is a tenner) they're made, which I very much doubt they could spend on advertising.

Do you remember the band S-Club7? They were really screwed over: they had a hit TV show and a load of top 10 hits (in the UK) but were only earning £20k a year, and got no royalties or bonuses from anything because of a contract they signed. Now THAT is harsh.

Quote by the_astronaut
Also, what were you doing on Hawthorne Heights' myspace page?


Haha, I didn't actively go looking for it, don't be rediculous!


...it's my homepage
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██
████████████████████
██
████████████████████
██████████████████████
#6
Poor HH

Im glad they stepped up a bit.

Tbh, If I were missing out on royalities, id want to get my anger out!
#7
^No doubt we'll be hearing about it in teenage angst form on their new album..
Quote by Yakult
I know! That's a total of £12million (assuming each CD is a tenner) they're made, which I very much doubt they could spend on advertising.

Do you remember the band S-Club7? They were really screwed over: they had a hit TV show and a load of top 10 hits (in the UK) but were only earning £20k a year, and got no royalties or bonuses from anything because of a contract they signed. Now THAT is harsh.

Of course I remember S-Club 7, they were amazing, but if you think about it, that's £140,000 a year, if you times by seven, or was that overall?

But I guess some of that £12 million, would be paid to staff, CD press etc, but still, no way would it all be gone..

Quote by Yakult
...it's my homepage

there is no fear in this heart.



Quote by ETHANEVIL
How am I being or trying to be fabulous/glamorous?



#9
I though it was common knowledge Victory Records was like this. Oh well. I respect Hawthorne for standing up for themselves. Maybe now they can write a decent song
#10
Quote by Yakult
I know! That's a total of £12million (assuming each CD is a tenner) they're made, which I very much doubt they could spend on advertising.

Do you remember the band S-Club7? They were really screwed over: they had a hit TV show and a load of top 10 hits (in the UK) but were only earning £20k a year, and got no royalties or bonuses from anything because of a contract they signed. Now THAT is harsh.


The price a label will sell the discs at it is probably half to 2/3s of what you pay in shops.

S-Club did get ripped off, but I'm sure they would've made more money from a couple of things on the side. They worked damn hard though, unlike Blazin' Squad who got £17k a year.

As for the HH thing; firstly the label can't recoup advertising costs unless the band are stupid enough to agree to a term like that, had the band had someone properly look over the contract they'd have got it to recoup the advance - which sounds like it was probably in the millions anyway. They probably just got a ****ty percentage from the start and then gave bits away to producers and such to cover a few extra costs.

They would've earnt a lot from tours and stuff than they ever could from the royalties anyway, so they should quit complaining.

Good on them for managing to leave the label they're not happy with, but that letter did come across a bit like they were after sympathy.
Quote by Mia (Pulp Fiction)
Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh*t in order to be comfortable?

That's when you know you found somebody special. When you can just shut the f*ck up for a minute, and comfortably share silence.

RateYourMusic
#11
Quote by andrewbiles

S-Club did get ripped off, but I'm sure they would've made more money from a couple of things on the side. They worked damn hard though, unlike Blazin' Squad who got £17k a year.


They got £17k each?! Jesus, there was about 50 of them as well! Their record company must be mad!

Quote by andrewbiles
Good on them for managing to leave the label they're not happy with, but that letter did come across a bit like they were after pity.


Yeah, slightly, but I think it's more like they're trying to win back the public vote because they know most people hate them for whatever reason. I think leaving Victory and moving to another label (if they don't just end up label-less) will do them the world of good
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██████████████████████
██
████████████████████
██
████████████████████
██████████████████████
#12
Possibly, they'll probably do a re-vamp of themselves and blame it on Victory having changed what they wanted to do.
They only thing is, you can't just leave labels, they sign you for a period of albums and if you don't meet requirements they make then you could be stuck there for forever. My guess is they got fired along with the other staff.
Quote by Mia (Pulp Fiction)
Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh*t in order to be comfortable?

That's when you know you found somebody special. When you can just shut the f*ck up for a minute, and comfortably share silence.

RateYourMusic
#13
Quote by andrewbiles


S-Club did get ripped off, but I'm sure they would've made more money from a couple of things on the side. They worked damn hard though, unlike Blazin' Squad who got £17k a year.
.


Blazin' Squad....

See you at the crossroads, andrew

and sclub, hmmm well they probably got a lot in merchindise and such, no?


either way rachel steven :lickslips:
#14
Quote by j0nmcc
Blazin' Squad....

See you at the crossroads, andrew

and sclub, hmmm well they probably got a lot in merchindise and such, no?


either way rachel steven :lickslips:


Haha.
I don't know if they'd have got any money from the merch, I would suspect that the label paid for the touring and so they got some kind of return on the merch. They had the tv show and did a hell of a lot whilst they were around, and I'm sure they must've got something extra from all that. Although they did really start off by doing the show from what I can remember so maybe it was in their contract that they wouldn't get extra pay for that...
Quote by Mia (Pulp Fiction)
Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh*t in order to be comfortable?

That's when you know you found somebody special. When you can just shut the f*ck up for a minute, and comfortably share silence.

RateYourMusic
#16
I loved S Club 7 until they got caught with drugs.

Then I didn't love them anymore.

How naive.

Anyway, what's the bets that they were kicked off Victory and they're trying to cover it up?

But I didn't read the whole thing...
Because light strikes a deal with each coming night.
#17
Wwwaaaaa he beat me.
Wwwwwwaaaa I'm in an abusive relationship.
WAWAWAWA.
I'm the victim.
WAWAWAWAWAWA.

That's all I heard.
Taking Back Sunday = Sensitive Hardcore
#18
But.....don't let it confuse you....they still are a terrible band. I honestly cannot see how anyone thinks they are good.
Can You Fill In The Blanks?
#19
Yeah, the same thing happened to Thursday, like four years ago. Except they didn't make as big of a fuss about it.
#20
omg, i hate hawthrone heights, and im actaully a tony brummel fan. hes (or atleast he used to be) a straight up hardcore dude. he helped out some of the greatest hardcore/emo acts of all time, and now this. I mean victory made HH, and now there making up all these craptacular lies about them.