#1
So when i noodle around jamming, i find myself phrasing everything back to the root note... and now that i have come to notice it im really getting tired of it, bc to me now matter how different the lick it still sounds repetitive.

So any of you theory dudes or just guys that think that they could help, i need a couple ideas on how to mix up the ends of my phrases by notes other than the root.

and it would be really cool if you had an example to please let me know songs and such.. oh and what i play is alot of blues rock minor pentatonic, hendrix and SRV stuff... so if you have any ideas on how i can mix things up a little i will be very indebted to you. Lessons, examples, sites, knowledge anything helps.

Thanks.
#3
I usually end some licks with the Major 3rd when playing bluesy stuff
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#4
If a chord is played underneath it, you can also land on a chord tone for the phrase to sound 'finished'. So, if a Emin is playing, you can also land on a G (minor third) or B (perfect fifth) or perhaps even extend the chord and land on a D (minor seventh) or F# (ninth).

In short, you can end any lick on any note.. If you land it on a chord tone it sounds 'finished', if you don't end it on a chord tone, it doesn't. PLEASE be careful with ending every phrase on a chord tone.. Chances are, the whole solo come out as a 'combination of random riffs and licks'.
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#5
if the phrase is in the middle of a solo u can create tension by not ending on a chord tone/root but try end the whole solo on a chord tone i.e root, fifth, or the third
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#6
Quote by elvenkindje
If a chord is played underneath it, you can also land on a chord tone for the phrase to sound 'finished'. So, if a Emin is playing, you can also land on a G (minor third) or B (perfect fifth) or perhaps even extend the chord and land on a D (minor seventh) or F# (ninth).

In short, you can end any lick on any note.. If you land it on a chord tone it sounds 'finished', if you don't end it on a chord tone, it doesn't. PLEASE be careful with ending every phrase on a chord tone.. Chances are, the whole solo come out as a 'combination of random riffs and licks'.


This is great advice. Keep track of where you are in the chord progression when you are playing so you know where the chord tones are when you end a phrase.
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#8
So in the E minor pentatonic, the third would be A and the fifth would be B, the seventh D, but what would a chord tone look like, im kind of confused there?
#9
in E minor pentatonic (in fact any form of E) A is the IV, B is the V, D is the minor VII, D# is the major VII
#10
Chord tones are pretty good, but they have to fit the chord you're ending on. You've gotta experiment alot to find new stuff.
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#11
one technique that i use quite often when soloing over a chord progression so that it doesn't sound stagnant is what i like to call dissonance to resolution

there are certain intervals that have a melodic tendency which makes them seem to "pull" towards another tone, i.e. a major 6th will pull strongly down to the fifth, minor 2nd falls to the root, major 7th up to the octave etc...half steps pull stronger than whole steps...now, if i were playing over a C major chord progression, a minor 2nd or minor 6th will sound very dissonant against the tones of the chord

now, let's say i decided to end a lick on this dissonant note...i would do one of two things; either create a suspension - holding onto a note that wants to move and resisting the resolution - and play another lick that ends on the resolving note, or i would bend up to the resolving note right away

this creates tension and interest when used correctly, perhaps you should try it
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#12
^ You know, there are some things there that just aren't right, and I'd like to take a moment to set them straight. I don't really feel like boiling this down to the simplicities like I normally do with posts, so I'm just going to jump straight in.

First: A suspension never ends a phrase. The resolution ends it. If the resolution begins a phrase, there's an ellision. For that matter, it's rather hard to actually end a phrase on a pure dissonance, though it can be done; normally such things ellide... the stronger the dissonance, the harder it is to end a phrase at.

Second: You may hear it differently, but the major 6th above a root is an unstable neutral tone; it pulls equally in both directions. When placed an immediate second above the fifth, or a resonating fifth, it's a minor dissonance. When placed a thirteenth over the last strong root, it's a minor consonance, with a sounding fifth taking precedence over the root if present.

Third: treatment of 7ths shouldn't be so non-chalant.... but I don't want to go there.

A full phrase ends at a cadence of some sort, depending on what cadences you use, your options for ending tones vary somewhat. Something that's worth noting is that it's the melody that ends the cadence, and not the actual harmonic cadence that determines the ending point. I'm not sure I can boil that down simple, but more or less any time the melody "breaths" on a consance at a cadental point, it's ends a phrase.

(If you're not with me at this point, don't bother with the next part, I didn't bother candy wrapping it)
Id est, I-V (half cadence) with the scalar leading tone (the third of V) in the melody forms a cadence point, assuming there /is/ a cadence there -- indicated by a melodic breath. This if the melody is 5-6 (scalar) over I, and the lt. is held over V, this is cadential (in C: G-A in the melody over C, B over G). However, if there's a modulatory cadence, such that I is used as IV in preparation of modulationg to the dominant, in the case of V-I (non cadential, IV/V) - V (cadential by modulation) and the melody goes 7-2-5-#4 (the point is the modulatory #4) over the first two chords, and the #4 is held, even though the I is a prepartory for the modulation, a held #4 in the melody (assuming its an agogic dissonance) isn't a phrase point, even though it's cadential. It's resolution to 5 (1 in the new key) is the end of the phrase -- if the resolution begins a phrase it's cadential.

Thus G-C-G as the progression, with B-D over the G, and G-F# over the C, with the F# getting the majority of the harmonic time (metrically/agogically accented) /doesn't/ form a cadence or the end of a phrase, even though it's an agogical breath (presumably the end of a passage).
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#14
wow man thats extensive, i appreciate that.

and 2s and 6s what are you talking about.
#15
Quote by Playdoh14
wow man thats extensive, i appreciate that.

and 2s and 6s what are you talking about.

Go search intervals, please.. Begin with the basics before you jump into this sort of thing.
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#16
so ending a phrase with agogic dissonance isn't really "ending" the phrase until it is resolved (if i understand correctly)...ahh, that makes perfect sense, sorry about the mix up about the "end of the phrase"

thanks for the very enlightening post
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#17
Quote by Corwinoid
Third: treatment of 7ths shouldn't be so non-chalant.... but I don't want to go there.

Still, I'd love it if you'd go there

Overall, great post Corwinoid!
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