#1
hey i've been a member for a while but never really used the forums but now i need a hand. i've had a job over the summer to try and get some new gear. i've decided to get an ibanez rg350dx then replace the bridge pickup with a DiMarzio Evolution but now comes to the part where what amp i should get.

i'm in a metal/hard rock band atm an we've played a few live gigs (it's hard trying to find places in northern ireland especially with metal) an i've been using a bc rich bronze warlock an i end up borrowing someone elses amp (i hav a laney hcm30 which can't really deliver the power i'm looking).

I was looking up on the internet for some good amps and i came across a lot of line 6 (spider II 212 and flextone III 112 & flextone 212). the spider has been given pretty good reviews but supposedly the tone seems to sound very different everytime you play. the flextone's would be good because my friend did a course in mixing so he would b able to help customize the presets via MIDI cable so i can create my own tone but they're quite expensive (around £459-479) although i did see a 112 on GAK for £269 but then comes the issue of losing out on power. is there any way to increase the power output with a cheap cab or connecting it up to a p.a. or something??? again i also read up that in order to get full advantage of the amp you need a line 6 fbv shortboard which costs another £190+ so it's a lot of money to be throwing away.

the other member in my band,mark, suggested i get a second hand marshall avt150 at a shop in letterkenny for around £270 which seems to be a good price but is the amp good.

if you have any other suggestions on an amp to get please feel to tell me i need all the help a can get

decky
#2
How much are you willing to spend?
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#3
^ agreed.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#5
Well to begin with:
Spider II's are crap. AVT's to, so are MG's. Id say get a tube combo.
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#6
Ok. Here's what you do.

Epiphone Valve Junior.
Replace stock tubes with jj ecc803s matched triode gold pin preamp tube w/ gain at 110 and a #30 JJ El84 power tube. This will run you $29 from Eurotubes.

You can get a jensen P8R alnico speaker too, but they cost $55, and you don't "need" it. I think the stock speaker sounds great, it just sounds better w/ the alnico magnet speaker.

If you want to go heavier than classic rock, a DOD Yngwie od pedal or a boss sd-1 does the trick nicely.

Amp+new tubes+pedal = $200-$220

Can't go wrong when you want an inexpensive tube amp.
#7
well i got £600-650 atm an bout £350 or so is going to towards the guitar an pickup so i've got around £300 or so left but i should be getting another pay check for bout £600 at the end of this month so it really depends.

thanks very much lespaulrocks39 i'l check to see the prices in the uk jus incase the p&p for that causes my ear to bleed from the inside. i was thinkin of getting a line 6 tonecore uber metal pedal just for that extra punch.

btw @ Dave_Mc
wer in northern ireland u from???
#8
^ tyrone.

do you get £600 every month?

if you do, you can pretty much get what you want, if you're willing to spend it.

I'm guessing something like an engl screamer/genz benz el-diablo combo would be nice.

or a cornford hurricane, but it's more hard rock than metal, and has no real features (it does have tone, though!).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
@ Dave_Mc

cool i'm from antrim

na i just didn't get payed for half of the work a i did last month so there paying me it this month on the 25th an it's only a summer so i'l prob not get tht much money for a long time lol. i'l probably end up paying around up to £500 or £600 for an amp so i want it to be a damn good one but i also wana have a couple hundred to spare so i ain't completely bankrupt
#10
^ if you can get up to £700 (maybe a little more, it'll depend where you buy it) you can probably get an engl screamer combo. I'd recommend that, the belfast guitar emporium in bradbury place (just down from the main queen's university building) stocks them, you can try them there.

the footswitch is extra (about £100 for the quality 6-button one), but you can make do with a smaller, cheaper 2-button one which'll let you switch the channels, which'll be round £20 (i don't even think you have to buy engl, probably most two button footcwitches would work).

Also, the newer ones come with vintage 30 speakers, which are a vast improvement on the old 70/80 speakers they had. if you are half serious about getting one, make sure to ask to see round the back, you should be able to see the back of the speaker, and it should say "celestion vintage 30" or something like that on the back in a pretty visible way: http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/products/classic/detail.asp?ID=4 (it'll look like this). also beware if a shop gives you too good a deal, they may know it has the older speaker, for example, lol, and may be wanting rid of it.

From what I've tried, for metal/hard rock, you'll be hard pushed to beat the screamer without going to about £1000+. Though the laney gh50L head (combined with your choice of cab) might be worth a look too. Matchetts used to stock them, but they had no laneys last time I was there. also, it depends what you mean by metal/hard rock. if you count iron maiden as metal, then something like a marshall dsl50 head might do.

If you can't get up to the £700 odd for the screamer, then post again and I'll think again. also, if you could post again to tell us a few bands whose stuff you play, that'd help too. You know, what you mean by metal, and what you mean by hard rock...

oh, also, I'd avoid the rg350dx, its trem is awful, get the s470 instead. also, are you sure you want evos? they pretty much sound exactly like vai, and are quite sterile. and they're about £80 each. if you are on a budget (and you are, as you've said so), you might want to look into some swineshead pickups: they're £45 each, in my opinion sound better than those dimarzios, and are handwound (the dimarzios you buy in shops aren't, though the actual ones vai uses may be). Unbeatable value here in the UK, mainly due to the fact that dimarzio, duncans and EMG are so over-priced here.

Sorry for the huge essay, I must have missed the bit about you getting the rg350 when I first posted (i think I read it that you already had it).

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#12
^ aye, the genz benz is at least as good as the screamer (since I'm almost biased against the screamer now, since I know I can already get the engl tone! It is personal preference though, the engl is a brighter tone (think megadeth/killswitch engage), while the genz benz is darker, more like a mesa recto (think master of puppets and later metallica)), but it's about £1000. Unless you can really dig deep (and not have to like do without food or something daft), I'd say it's outside your budget. You can try them easily enough, though, there's a shop in banbridge that stocks them.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
i play a lotta joe satriani and steve vai sorta stuff with the odd bit of maiden metallica pantera and symphony x. neway but i feel a bit naked without the extra 2 frets dont wori bout the big mad essay i've been on the internet researchin stuff for ages but i should have came here in the first place cuz it's proved a lot more hlpful than by myself.

i want a real punchy tone but also have smooth notes for shredding even with a lot of gain. i've been at the guitar emporium before weren't many guitars with floyd roses tho which is what i'm really going for guitar wise but i didn't really check out the amps i'l hav to check it out again.

i saw an engl screamer for £679 http://www.thomann.de/thoiw2_engl_screamer_50_roehrencombo_e330_prodinfo.html which seems alright an maybe get a cheap 2 button pedal or a line 6 uber metal pedal. i would have had around 700-800 wif the rg but now ur making me reconsider so mehh . i'l see if my dad can mayb go halfers on the amp with me cause it was my bday last week an they didn't get me anything....mwuhahahahahaa blackmail lol

people
#14
^ well, you certainly won't want to use an uber metal with a screamer, it'll sound metal enough on its own, especially if you can get it up to a reasonable volume. The footswitch (cheapo one) would also be about one third the price of the uber metal. if anything, you'd maybe want an overdrive pedal to boost your gain and volume slightly for lead breaks (since with the cheaper 2-button footswitch you can't access the volume boost in the amp).

If you must have 24 frets, the washburn x40pro is quite a nice guitar. It also comes stock with duncans (a distortion and a '59), which, while not as good as swinesheads (in my opinion), are certainly good enough to not need to upgrade, especially if you're on a budget. It's £379 from http://www.machinehead.co.uk/washburn_guitar.php (not the one with EMG's, it's about £70 more, and has a much worse trem). So yeah, I'd recommend that. You'd probably end up having to buy it without trying, though. I'm almost positive it's got 24 frets.

So yeah, that's what I'd go for. Or you could always get a second hand rg1570/550/570/1550, and switch the pickups.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#15
okily doke. lespaulrocks39 was suggesting a dod yngwie j malmsteen overdrive pedal so i mite check that out.

i'd say i cud probably go without 24 frets cause i'd hav my warlock with me as a backup and it has 24 frets an plays really well compared to a hell of a lotta guitars i'v played at matchetts. it's amazing what lowering ur action until it basically touches the fretboard and a set of super slinkies will do

the x40 pro looks quite nice but the neck looks like it has a tumor lol an i sorta wanted to stray away from the black colour cause it's a bit depressing when u stare at it for a long time plus i like bright colours. i wudn't mind tryin out the guitar first tho cuz i was in trevor keys music in ballymena yesterday tryin out a guitar (i think it was an aria) an it was **** beyond belief. pinches wer unbelievably hard to get on it an i usually score pinches everytime with ease. i actually had to try tht time!!!!

i was also checkin out the swineshead pickups last nite too. the xbucker sounds great for pinches an isn't too shabby for lead breaks. i wonder who plays the songs for their recordings....

anywhooo i'l prob check out the ads for free paper today to check if there's any gd rg's as you've said. there's one on ebay an rg 1570 for 355 inc p&p so al i hav to do is convince my mother to use her credit card before she cuts it up then get the swineshead's
#16
Isn't an ENGL Thunder 50 an option? A little cheaper than the Screamer and still nice tone.
#17
i duno i havn't played either but i will check it out an see if i can get a second recommendation bout it

thanks Aetius
#18
^ aye, try the thunder too, the emporium should have one of those as well. I just haven't tried it, from what i hear, it's more aimed at 80's metal and doesn't have as much gain as the screamer.

I guess jon bell (swineshead main dude) plays the soundclips for the swineys, but I'm not sure...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
After all this bloody hassle I won't be able to afford the amp and guitar that I wanted, so I think I'm just going to go for the guitar instead. Maybe later on, when I get the money, I'l buy the amp, but I'l definitely keep the Engl Screamer and Thunder in mind especially if they're still in stock at the emporium.

I tried looking in the ads for free paper today but all i saw were les pauls, strats, teles and pacificas. I'l keep an eye out for the Ibanez RG1570 and the Swineheads (maybe an xbucker for bridge and a warthog or runaway for neck). btw ur boy jon bell is a real good player if it is him playing
#20
^ aye.



of course, if you can only afford one or the other, unless your guitar is virtually unplayable, I'd advise to get the amp instead...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
I'd like the amp but I'm afraid of getting feedback all the time because everytime I've gigged I've received a high pitched stab to the ear as soon as I stop playing. That's why I liked the uber metal pedal cause it had a built in noise gate blocking out that horrid noise :S. Do you think my B.C. Rich Bronze Warlock would compliment the screamer in any way???
#22
^ well, it'll not be great, but a poor guitar through a good amp would sound better than a good guitar through a poor amp...

of course, you could just split the difference and get an amp around £400, and a guitar around £300.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
spose so. all the gigs we've plaed we've been supportin other local bands and were able to use their amps e.g. the nerve centre in derry, brysons bar in magherafelt and the cellar bar in draperstown so i don't know if an amp atm is of major concern but ur the man dave. all i know how to do is play the guitar i've never really had to think about the whole picking the perfect amp part.

if i do get the amp i'l go for the screamer an mayb switch pickups on my warlock to stop the immense feedback

but if i choose the guitar...rg 1570, xbucker bridge, condor neck, and spotlight single coil.

what's your suggestion??

man!!! if u weren't here i'd end up with a spider II and rg350dx with an edge III lol
#24
^ no problem, man.

what do you want from the pickups? what do you want the bridge to be able to do (list the tones/styles you want to get from it)? Ditto the middle and the neck.

Just bear in mind, try as many amps as you can (guitars too) when you're thinking of buying. Just because I like the screamer, for example, doesn't mean you will, etc.

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
much appreciated man.

for bridge i was hoping a sorta punchy treble-y sorta tone good for lead break an instrumental parts (think vai/symphony x)

for middle i'd like something for the more acoustic/clean sorta playing cause i play a lot of classical guitar too and/or vintage rock sorta tone

for neck i was hoping sorta the same as the middle except able to cope a bit more with high gain for good rhythm playing.

i'l take a look at a few jacksons or ibanez s series if matchetts or the guitar emporium have them an i think i saw a laney half stack in matchetts last time i was down so i'l try it.

when trying the amps out what should i look for in features and tone wise?

#26
^ I'd guess you want a venom bridge, spotlight middle, and runaway neck. But email jon (once you get your guitar) to see what he suggests too, you could make a case for the condor in the neck too (though it wouldn't be as good with higher gain).

For the amp, it really depends what you want to play. If you're looking at valve amps, remember that when they get turned up loud (i.e. channel and master volumes more than half way up, this depends on the amp, some amps have more power tube distortion than others) they'll get a lot more distortion- so something that doesn't seem to have all that much gain at low volumes might actually have plenty of gain- that is, if you can get to crank it regularly. You also want to make sure to be able to get to try it up loud (or else if they won't let you, tell them you'll take it but want to get to try it up loud at home, in case you don't like it, and if you don't you expect a full refund), just in case it actually sounds worse at high volumes (most valve amps sound better up loud, indeed this is one of their major selling points, but an odd one doesn't, so you need to avoid these).

If you can't turn it up loud a lot at home, then you want something that has quite a lot of pre-amp gain, so it sounds heavy at low volumes too. another thing to remember is that with a valve amp, you can use an overdrive pedal (or clean boost, or treble boost, or even a not-too-high-gain distortion pedal) to boost the overdrive that's already there (i.e. you can run it over the amp's overdrive channel). So if it almost has enough gain for you, a pedal might just give you that little boost over the top.

to make the overdrive pedal sound as natural as possible, set the level/volume of the pedal to maximum, and then control the volume with the drive knob (i.e. it'll be nearly at the minimum). Alternatively, if you want the sound to be a little more sterile, do the opposite- set the gain around halfway, and then control the volume with the volume knob.

Tone wise, you want to make sure the amp can do the tones you want, obviously. You might also want to check its versatility, just in case your taste in music or ear for tone changes over time- though obviously don't go for versatility at the expense of the main tone you're after.

Another thing to remember is, sometimes amps have loads of features to disguise the fact that the tone's not very good. You're better off with a one channel amp that sounds good, than a 4-channel amp that sounds bad. Also, valve amps tend to clean up pretty well with your guitar's volume control- so if you set it up with distortion, if you roll the guitar's volume back a bit, you can almost get a clean sound (to be fair, this is with medium distortion- you won't be able to roll back to clean if you're playing with a killswitch engage level of distortion!).

You also want to make sure it's pretty quiet (with humbuckers) especially if you're using a lot of gain- you don't want to hear too much hiss etc. (though if you're playing at high gain, you'll probably hear a little, and you could get a noise gate like a decimator to eliminate this later).

That's about all I can think of at the moment. If you have any other questions, shoot!

EDIT: you want to make sure it's not muddy with too much gain. Some of the cheaper high gain tube amps sound kind of muddy at high gain (but low volume) situations. Presumably they'll tighten up at higher volumes, but that's no use if you can only crank it for a gig once a month, and the rest of the time are playing at bedroom levels.

you also want to make sure the cab and speaker can handle the amp at high volume levels, some of the cheaper ones "fart out" and generally sound like the damn thing is about to fall apart, lol.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Aug 11, 2006,
#27
^ I shall check with Jon Bell as soon as I get my guitar and see what the score is. I just want to be able to play the rest of Bad Horsie because I can play every bit apart from the bits where he uses the floyd rose lol. btw does he get the squeal-ish noises by hitting natural harmonics???

I've been playing a lot of Vai (with a little Racer X an Symphony X) atm but I don't want to lash out on a Carvin Vai signature amp because my style of playing is most likely completely different to his, and even if I tried to impersonate his style and sound, it'd still sound nothing like him.

Amp-wise, I'm basically looking for something that can cope with a good dosage of gain, not too bassy or muddy, an still be able to catch the notes I play when shredding instead of a blurry barrage of high and low notes. My Laney HCM30 has none of those aspects but I'm sure the pickups on my Warlock have had a major impact on that.

I haven't even heard any killswitch engage songs nvr mind play them lol but I've heard they're quite gd. i'l take a jont into sometime this month an give the amps a try an see if i can get them loud enough to see if the sound changes (good or bad).

I'd like to get the RG1570 and Swineshead's first so then I could bring it round to Matchett's and the Emporium and try the amps out personally without using another guitar which could hav a completely different tone to the rg and change the sound completely.

I'l also make sure to ask the people if I can turn it up loud to check for muddiness and such.

Thanks for the help man. Extra brownie points for you!!

EDIT: btw the overdrive pedal idea sounds good and if you're ever playing a gig some time and need a band to fill up time before you play give me a PM
Last edited by decky1990 at Aug 11, 2006,
#28
^ cheers, man, unfortunately I'm not in a band at the moment...

from what you say, the engl screamer would be a nice amp, if you can get the cash. It's very clear sounding (almost hi-fi), I think it's what you're after. But yeah, basically try all you can. the guitar idea sounds pretty good too.

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#29
Well to say the least your missing out. I couldn't say there's a nicer feeling than playing live to a crowd....but then again i'm still a virgin

Anywhoo thanks for the advice, guitar and amp wise! Clear sounding with gain were the exact words I that was looking for.

As soon as I we get a demo done we should have a few more gigs to go so until then I shall save up some money for the screamer and maybe have it by Christmas if we're still playing.

I keep you informed man, hasta luego

#30
^
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?