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#1
Ok. I think the discussion started in the DKM thread that is now closed was worth continuing.

How, as punks, should we feel about paying to get into shows and paying for CDs?

As far as buying CDs, I don't feel the need to buy the CD unless it's on a very DIY label that puts the money where it belongs. I don't like buying CDs from bands on larger labels that don't turn around and invest the money back into the bands.

As far as paying to get into shows, I can completely respect that. I think of it more as a donation to the band than an admittance price. A lot of bands just want to make enough money to pay the rent and buy groceries. That's why all the shows I go to are $12 or less. That's a reasonable amount of money, I think, to give to a band so that they can pay for gas for their van, pay for rent, groceries, and a little extra to put into the band for recording or instrument repair, etc.

How does everybody else feel about this?
#2
I think donation is the way to go. except some people like to be cheap assholes and not donate to touring bands which is bull****.
#3
Most of the CDs that I consider buying are usually made available for free on the internet by bands that just want their music heard so I just download those. However, I usually try to buy a band's vinyl as well so I feel like I'm supporting them, and plus I like vinyl. I don't have a problem paying around 12 dollars for a show as long as there a couple of good bands playing. If its only one or two bands, I don't like spending over 7 dollars.
#5
I buy records usually from shows that are 100% diy distros so no worrys.And ive played tons of free shows where no one paid to get in nor did we get paid(weve never been paid once and dont care).Which im fine with.But when you drive 6 hours to play a show then end up with no gas money its almost a joke.Support bands touring give them your money.Alot of people bitch and moan when punk bands cancel tours.But when you tour you never make money you always lose money.Its all for the fans so pay up.
its a global massacre
#6
I buy a lot of CD's from the show itself, so I pay to see, and if I like them I pay for the CD. Other than that I burn CD's from friends and people I meet.
#7
Quote by planetary ruins
I buy records usually from shows that are 100% diy distros so no worrys.And ive played tons of free shows where no one paid to get in nor did we get paid(weve never been paid once and dont care).Which im fine with.But when you drive 6 hours to play a show then end up with no gas money its almost a joke.Support bands touring give them your money.Alot of people bitch and moan when punk bands cancel tours.But when you tour you never make money you always lose money.Its all for the fans so pay up.


PR's right (and it scares me when I agree with PR).

People putting on shows should, at the very least, guarantee gas money and/or food.
I've put on many shows and almost always ended up giving all the money to the bands.

Too often, scumbag promoters have packed the house with people, ripped the bands off and then pocketed all the cash.
I saw Bad Brains' manager smash windows and pee all over the bar of a club where I saw them play, that had tried to rip them off.

I don't download anything that I don't own already.
This is especially damaging to small labels and bands.

If you like a band, buy some merch from them, so that they continue to make music and tour.

However, if it's an emo band, steal from them and pee in their van, because they're rich suburban weenies and deserve it.
Just kidding.
Quote by sargasm
I don't like straight edge because it's part of Hardcore, and I don't like Hardcore because, aside from the terrible music, the kids are often very homophobic.


You forgot ugly, lazy and disrespectful.
#8
i dont mind paying to get into shows or to buy cds, cause if all that was free, how would the band make enough money to survive?
#9
im fine with paying to get into shows to support the band. ive never payed more than $15(canadian) to get into a concert. as for vinyl/cds i buy most at shows from the band who usually has one of their members sit at the merch table after their set.
#11
Quote by johnnynemo
I don't download anything that I don't own already.
This is especially damaging to small labels and bands.

If you like a band, buy some merch from them, so that they continue to make music and tour.


That's exactly the way everyone should be thinking.
I also think that people should really be against downloading leaked copies of albums. So much effort goes into making them and then people piss on that effort because they can't be bothered to wait a couple more weeks. Yeah you want to hear the new material, but why not hear it when the band wants you to hear it?
Anyway, that's not the point of the topic...
Not all labels are out there to make money, obviously if they do it's a plus and means they can enjoy their life a little better or put more effort into more releases or better quality releases (in terms of recording quality, packaging, etc.) or even be able to afford to treat the bands better. At the end of the day bands have chosen to try and make music their living. By downloading their music (for free) or not paying for shows you just make it a lot harder for the band to continue playing.
Quote by Mia (Pulp Fiction)
Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh*t in order to be comfortable?

That's when you know you found somebody special. When you can just shut the f*ck up for a minute, and comfortably share silence.

RateYourMusic
#12
I only download when the record is out of print and I won't be able to get one from the band themselves. Most of the time bands just give me their record because I set up alot of shows and whatnot (or my bassist goes to Memphis and hangs out with Jay Retard and I get alot that way). I always pay for shows that I don't play at and whenever touring bands come in to town I make them food and give them a bit extra gas money. It's really not that much of a sacrifice for me to make some hot dogs and give an extra ten bucks to my friends on the road who need it alot more than I do.
HELP ME I'M TRAPPED IN A HUMAN BODY!
#13
I download but I also buy a cd each week. The downloading is just to tide me over until I can buy the album or so I can see if I'll enjoy a band I haven't heard yet. I also buy band shirts and patches and support them by going to their shows when I can. I can't stand people who download and never give any support at all to bands they listen to. It's one thing to do it if you don't have the money right now or if you're like 13 or something but the way some people just act proud of it or encourage others to do the same thing makes me sick.
Minister of n00b harassing of the Punk and Ska fourm.
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#14
If you download from major record labels it hurts their profits. I encourage that. Because it's one less way of supporting the Military Industrial Complex.
HELP ME I'M TRAPPED IN A HUMAN BODY!
#15
^ I agree. I don't mind it when people say "OMGZ! I heart teh new Fallout Boy! I downloaded all of their songs!" but when people say that stuff about smaller punk, metal, emo, goth, indie etc. bands it just seems like you're stealing the shirt right off of their backs.
Minister of n00b harassing of the Punk and Ska fourm.
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Quote by UraniYum
Cowswithguns is some kind of god on earth.



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#16
I don't mind giving money to people who make good music (for the most part).

Edit: I'm referring to smaller bands on smaller labels. I believe in giving them support to keep making music/touring/etc.
Last edited by opivy21 at Aug 9, 2006,
#17
I tend to buy albums if I like the music, regardless if it's a big label or not, but I understand the point people are making.
This is what you get.
This is what you get.
This what you get when you mess with us.
#18
Quote by whyvern
If you download from major record labels it hurts their profits. I encourage that. Because it's one less way of supporting the Military Industrial Complex.



That's such a lame thing to say, and I hate it when people do say that. There's more people putting a lot of effort into getting bands music released and the amount of money majors lose on signing bands is ridiculous. It's something like one in twelve bands they sign actually earns them a profit, but the profit tends to be enough to cover what they've lost on the other eleven. Although people think of the majors as evil machines just out to make money, they do put a hell of a lot of effort and money into bands that make huge losses.
Quote by Mia (Pulp Fiction)
Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh*t in order to be comfortable?

That's when you know you found somebody special. When you can just shut the f*ck up for a minute, and comfortably share silence.

RateYourMusic
#19
But all the bands they put effort into suck. Why would I want them to keep doing that?
HELP ME I'M TRAPPED IN A HUMAN BODY!
#20
I've bought 46 cds by punk bands this summer. No guilt there.
#21
Quote by andrewbiles

That's such a lame thing to say, and I hate it when people do say that. There's more people putting a lot of effort into getting bands music released and the amount of money majors lose on signing bands is ridiculous. It's something like one in twelve bands they sign actually earns them a profit, but the profit tends to be enough to cover what they've lost on the other eleven. Although people think of the majors as evil machines just out to make money, they do put a hell of a lot of effort and money into bands that make huge losses.


not really. major labels look at mtv, find out what bands are popular, and sign more bands like them. and good, original (or revival) bands get left to play underground gigs.

in november i'm going to the most expensive gig i've ever been to ($55)
but thats 2 days of something like 30 bands, i love all of them, and the only reason it isn't $30 is because they need money to fly 2 bands over from america.
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that is what girls find attractive.
#22
I'm not too bothered about paying for albums (unless they're riiculously expensive and I can live without them). I only get pissed off money wise when I spend 4 weeks of money in 3, or if I have to buy something I really don't want to shell out on but physically need (at the moment a major one of these is cigarettes.)

A lot of venues charge ten quid or whatever, but a lot of the time none of this goes to the band. It pisses me off a bit, but I can live with it provided I'm only paying for my ticket (until I was 18, I was not allowed to go to Soho or Islington or places like that without a friend, so to get a friend along I had to pay their ticket).

In all fairness I'm so clumsy I probably do more damage than I pay for when I go anywhere.

That said, I probably only have that view because I hope it'll be how I earn my living. That, plus T shirt sales.
#23
I like buying and collecting CDs from artists I love. I usually buy them from local businesses like Skinnies Records where they don't make much $$$, that way I know I help Steve (the owner) buy his dinner for selling such great music and music stuff and for being a generally cool guy. Sometimes I buy my music from places like Planet Music or FYE, but not all that often.

As for paying for shows, I don't mind supporting a band that I really love by paying a couple bucks for admission to see them play live. I think paying more than $20 is excessive. My friend Josh spent $50 on a NIN concert ticket just to see the Bauhaus. He left before NIN started their set. I thought that was a big waste of money. He wanted me to waste my money and go with him, but I was like, "**** DAT". Something I refuse to pay for though, spoken word shows. Why pay to hear some old veteran of the 80's punk scene ramble on and rant? *Cough*Jello*Cough*. Why pay to hear him have a one way conversation, when you go up to him after a show and talk to him in a two-way conversation for free?
#25
Quote by MattTheArsonist
I like buying and collecting CDs from artists I love. I usually buy them from local businesses like Skinnies Records where they don't make much $$$, that way I know I help Steve (the owner) buy his dinner for selling such great music and music stuff and for being a generally cool guy. Sometimes I buy my music from places like Planet Music or FYE, but not all that often.


Steve is a really cool guy. He does have some slightly overpriced items, but I'll still suck it up and buy from him instead of online distro like AYP or Interpunk. He sometimes gives random discounts and is never uptight about you having exactly enough money.. if you're a little bit short, he'll cut the price down a little. He's just an all around good guy.
#26
Yeah, he's pretty cool. He likes to talk to me about guitars a lot and he insults my friend Josh sometimes. It's pretty funny. I think Steve makes up for his slightly pricey merchandise with the amazing selection of stuff he has in there.
Last edited by MattTheArsonist at Aug 11, 2006,
#27
Quote by MattTheArsonist
Yeah, he's pretty cool. He likes to talk to me about guitars a lot and he insults my friend Josh sometimes. It's pretty funny. I think Steve makes up for his slightly pricey merchandise with the amazing selection of stuff he has in there.


I get best of both worlds i get the great selection and the cheap prices.
#28
Quote by whyvern
But all the bands they put effort into suck. Why would I want them to keep doing that?


Well if it sucks, why would you want to download it?

Quote by pistols
not really. major labels look at mtv, find out what bands are popular, and sign more bands like them. and good, original (or revival) bands get left to play underground gigs.


Yeah, they do try and do that, but they've got to spend a hell of a lot of money on finding the bands and releasing the materials. As they've got a wider reach of distribution this usually means they have to press thousands more copies, spend millions more on advertising and generally put a lot more cash out for a lot more bands. Ok, they don't have to, but if they want to try and make a profit out of the band then they do. And I'm telling you, it is about 1/12 that they do make a good profit on.
Quote by Mia (Pulp Fiction)
Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullsh*t in order to be comfortable?

That's when you know you found somebody special. When you can just shut the f*ck up for a minute, and comfortably share silence.

RateYourMusic
#29
Personally I buy CD's constantly.

I've amassed quite a selection. I enjoy the hunt, and if all else fails I have my CD's ordered for me.

I enjoy Collecting CD's and have no problem with paying money for them, as long as they aren't ridiculously expensive (I finally located a copy of Static Age today, but I passed because it was 17.99 )
#30
Quote by Iluvpowerchords
Personally I buy CD's constantly.

I've amassed quite a selection. I enjoy the hunt, and if all else fails I have my CD's ordered for me.

I enjoy Collecting CD's and have no problem with paying money for them, as long as they aren't ridiculously expensive (I finally located a copy of Static Age today, but I passed because it was 17.99 )


I thought you ment like rare stuff haha. likes old accused stuff not misfits(which is sold in everystore).
#31
Quote by LoudnSnotty138
I thought you ment like rare stuff haha. likes old accused stuff not misfits(which is sold in everystore).


, well for some reason Static Age is rare where I live (I thought it would be one of the easier albums to find)

But even the most common albums can be hard to find around me. We don't have any indie stores.

As for shows, I'm seeing the Rollins band with "X" on Aug. 20. I'm excited, but the show is 25 bucks. I'd like to see show tickets come down to be honest.
#32
Quote by andrewbiles
Well if it sucks, why would you want to download it?


I'm interesting in seeing what the new Pink Spiders record sounds like because my friend used to be in the band and I don't wanna give those assholes any money.

Like I said the only other time I download is when a record is sold out and I can't afford $100+ for the 1st Black Lips 7".
HELP ME I'M TRAPPED IN A HUMAN BODY!
#33
Quote by whyvern
I'm interesting in seeing what the new Pink Spiders record sounds like because my friend used to be in the band and I don't wanna give those assholes any money.

Like I said the only other time I download is when a record is sold out and I can't afford $100+ for the 1st Black Lips 7".




It sounds like they want to be the Exploding Hearts really badly IMO. "Little Razorblade" really is a cool song though.
#34
That songs like 3 years old.... I can't believe they re-recorded a bunch of old ones.

Lame.
HELP ME I'M TRAPPED IN A HUMAN BODY!
#35
Bands need money for important things....fans have money......simple as that. Espicaly with smaller labels, bands need money. And even on bigger labels they still need money if they are going to tour. I have no problem paying for merch from ceartain bands, as long as its not rip-off prices.
"Imagine all the people, sharing all the world"
-John Lennon
#36
I downloaded London Bridges by Fergie last week.
It was so catchy...err I mean, down with the MIC!
Quote by CowsWithGuns
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#37
A few years ago when my band was just starting to venture to different towns we made the mistake of signing a contract with a promotions company called "maxrock" in Birmingham. The day after we signed they gave us a gig, sent us £40 tickets to sell in three days. Obviously being a small band then, and having a very small fanbase we couldnt flog 40 in three days, i think we sold maybe 20-25, we turned up to the gig and were told we had to give maxrock the money and the remaining tickets, we would receive £1 from every ticket sold providing we sold over 30 tickets (tickets were sold at £5)

If we refused to pay, we wouldnt play simple as and then we'd have had to refund everyone and earnt ourselves a bad rep as it goes without making any money, we played the damn gig, dropped maxrock the very same night and have never signed any contracts with promoters again. We werent after the money-we just wanted to play, but we didnt even get travel expenses covered and we had to pay £1.25 at the bar for a bottle of water!

Yeah just a warning to any upcoming bands-be very careful who you work with coz everyones out for blood.
“I smoke. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your f*ckin' mouth.” RIP
Http://www.Smash-it-up.tk
#38
i buy independent record label CDs at independent record stores, and download the bands on major labels. (i feel they dont need any more money) that way, i screw the major labels AND the major record companies!!!!!!! hell ya!
THIS IS MY SIGNATURE


#39
i would buy albums from big record companies if i liked the music. i dont mind paying for shows. most of the music i like aren't on big record companies anyway, but whatever.

i dont illegally download music though. i do burn albums and stuff for friends i dont know if that counts as stealing.

besides my money supports these bands. im happy to help a band i like out.
#40
I definately believe in paying for shows unless the band(s) don't give a **** and dont charge. As far as cd's, i always pay, i don't download i don't even burn unless i plan on buying it later or i'm just checking them out. Let's face it **** costs money to do, you need food, gas for touring, costs money to make cd's, and i think a band earns it.
I myself have played shows for nothing more than food and a place to crash, maybe gas money and I've also got paid for playing(although that money doesn't go very far). My band gives out demo cds for free but if a band wanted to charge i respect that, too. In the end i think it should be up to the bands and if you don't think its worth the money than don't participate or purchase or whatever.
Originally posted by XMetallica73X
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^ FIELD TRIP TIME
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