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#1
Apparantly people that want to be in a band around where I live have to be able to shred. Even Punk bands. Punk rock, Pop Punk and stuff like that is not shredding, so what? Why do people say the guitarists suck? They can play, they can make catchy stuff? I just don't understand why people have to be like this.

For example, BJ, Yes Green Day's guitarist can play and influenced me to play, but people say, "It's Green Day, It's easy" And in terms half of the people that say that, have never played in a band, don't have rhythm, or live in there moms basement.

I just don't get it sometimes.. Is shredding, and playing "Metallica" everything?
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#2
No, but it's just pathetic when people who can't play guitar are held in higher esteem than people who work their arse off practisin hours a day to get better.
#3
i dont like shredding even though it takes a lot of skill, but i like solos that sound nice not ones that just go extremely fast. im really into the red hot chili peppers and there guitarist john frusciante is a legend, a god of guitar, and he does not shred, on the song i could have lied the solo is phenominal and on stadium arcadium he plays faster solos but they still sound really nice.
Plus jimi hendrix did not shred.
#4
nearly all the guitarists i know around where i live can play like that. and it makes me go " wow , im **** , i cant do that" but then i realise i dont want to . but like you said they think its evrything. they are into what someone can do , in terms of flashiness as opposed to something with feeling etc. not that shred is pure crap , but to quote John Frusciante ;

1. "it`s not about showing somebody what you can do with a piece of wood in your hands that has strings on it..." cant remember the rest

2. " rock guitar soloing (eg long solos , shred ) is a dead end , its been taken as far as it can be , i dont think anyone can do anything better with it"

id love to be ablke to play fast and shred , but the guys i know just like Mettalica , Thin Lizzy , Van Halen , Trivium , and all other bands like that with a few exceptions in Blues, but it just seems to me to be "we can all play guitar fast , anyone else not like us is ****" they call beginners ****!! how is a beginner gonna have any knowledge of what to do? these people just show off. not all tho i kno 1 guy , hes amazing , and can play a **** load of styles , but has too much of an ego problem.
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#5
Some music is an aquired taste. For example, most non-opera singers don't listen to opera because they don't undersatnd it. They don't understand the control and determination it takes to truely sing properly. Similarly most-non guitarists don't listen to shred for the same reason.
Also, one should not stereotype shred. It's not always tremelo picking and chromaticism. Just listen to John Petrucci's solo album Suspended Animation or some of his work with Dream Theater. He obviously has great knowledge in musical theory (he studied at Berklee) and can be very melodic in his playing.
So don't listen if you don't want, but don't stereotype.

WB
#6
I cant shred simple as but i comment on technical skills to a degree but if its a good song its a good song simple as.
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#7
I honestly want to be able to shred and I hate Green Day, but I don't go around calling them crap. I don't like them but if that is your kind of music its fine. There are always going to be those people that have to call other people's music crap. I think its important to listen ot a lot of different music and I listen to a lot of metal but I also like RCHP, all kinds of country, and anything with a guitar basicly. People are always going to make fun of Green Day though because they are really popular.
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#8
Quote by whatamidoinhere
No, but it's just pathetic when people who can't play guitar are held in higher esteem than people who work their arse off practisin hours a day to get better.

+1
#9
Yes i can see your point. I know this one guitarist, who is most likely the best guitarist that i know personally. He can play anything, make great melodies, rythms, lyrics, and even bass lines and drum beats. He also makes his own music, which most people will agree takes more talent than playing other peoples songs, especially when the music he makes is good. And he doesn't shred. He solos. Theres a big difference. His solos are more creative and more mindblowing and any shredding i've ever heard. Playing guitar is about style and creativeness, not speed.

I hope everyone understood what i meant with that post. If they didn't, then oh well.
#10
Oh I don't know.

Ambition ?

Besides, by the way you talk I can tell you have the stereotypical incredibly inaccurate vision of shred me and my shred cronies over at the shred forum have been fighting for ages. Realise what you're talking about first. Wanking is not shred, no matter how bad those little 13 year olds want to convince you it is. It's not even about speed at all.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


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#11
When I was a kid I just wanted to be able to play the songs I heard and loved. Now I just want to play and create music and present it. Being more involved in the hardcore scene - the ability of skill does not appeal to me no more.
#12
Quote by Resiliance
Oh I don't know.

Ambition ?

Besides, by the way you talk I can tell you have the stereotypical incredibly inaccurate vision of shred me and my shred cronies over at the shred forum have been fighting for ages. Realise what you're talking about first. Wanking is not shred, no matter how bad those little 13 year olds want to convince you it is. It's not even about speed at all.
Wait hold up here. I never said that shred was bad. I like shred and happen to listen to it all the time, it's just that people who say, oh your not very good cause your not fast, it kinda makes me mad. I want to be able to play good sure, but that doesn't mean I have to be able to pull off crazy solos and licks.. it's just what I want to be able to play.

I'm not aiming it at the shredding community in general, I'm just saying there are a lot of dickheads out there.

Quote by Craigo
When I was a kid I just wanted to be able to play the songs I heard and loved. Now I just want to play and create music and present it. Being more involved in the hardcore scene - the ability of skill does not appeal to me no more.



Yeah well people like you are better than the ones I am around. That's exactly the way I think, expressing yourself, who cares about skill? I'm into some Hardcore stuff as well, and it's not shred but still has good qualitys as music.
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#13
Quote by Guitar_Master92
Wait hold up here. I never said that shred was bad. I like shred and happen to listen to it all the time, it's just that people who say, oh your not very good cause your not fast, it kinda makes me mad. I want to be able to play good sure, but that doesn't mean I have to be able to pull off crazy solos and licks.. it's just what I want to be able to play.

I'm not aiming it at the shredding community in general, I'm just saying there are a lot of dickheads out there.

There also a lot power chord happy dickheads.
Some people say "oh you don't play green day you suck."
There are dickheads in every genre, country, religion, race, sexuality, and gender.
Any "group" has cool people and dicks heads.
wow i said dickheads quite a lot.
#14
I say you are good when you can play in time and coordinate with the other players of the band. Cause if you can't do that much than the band falls apart. Even if you can shred, if you can't keep time its a mess. I'd rather have someone who is very smooth at playing powerchords and keeps in time than some technically amazing metal shredder whos sloppy and cant keep time.
#15
Quote by take_it_t
I say you are good when you can play in time and coordinate with the other players of the band. Cause if you can't do that much than the band falls apart. Even if you can shred, if you can't keep time its a mess. I'd rather have someone who is very smooth at playing powerchords and keeps in time than some technically amazing metal shredder whos sloppy and cant keep time.
I agree with you. I would much rather have a person in my band that can keep time, and be able to communicate, have good rhythm with chords and power chords rather than someone that can shred and can't keep time. There are shredders though that are good at all of that.

Quote by walkinbazooka
There also a lot power chord happy dickheads.
Some people say "oh you don't play green day you suck."
There are dickheads in every genre, country, religion, race, sexuality, and gender.
Any "group" has cool people and dicks heads.
wow i said dickheads quite a lot.


And yeah I know what you mean, I agree with you there as well. I'm kinda in between. There are tons of people that can play a lot of stuff better than Green Day but there are also tons that can't play anything at all. Again I'm not saying shredding is bad, and yea we do have our dickheads
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#16
Quote by take_it_t
I say you are good when you can play in time and coordinate with the other players of the band. Cause if you can't do that much than the band falls apart. Even if you can shred, if you can't keep time its a mess. I'd rather have someone who is very smooth at playing powerchords and keeps in time than some technically amazing metal shredder whos sloppy and cant keep time.

well of course rhythm and all the other basics have to come before shredding but that raises a question in my mind. if after chords and basics come soloing and shredding, what come after shredding?


I suppose we should ask Mr. Batio..........................

Edit: I'm glad we can see our similarities guitar-master
#17
Why would you NOT want to be good/shred? I think it makes more sense to learn how to be very proficient at your instrument and be able to play what you want, instead of being limited to playing what you CAN. Think about it, what if you heard a cool riff in your head that was a little too fast or complex for you? Wouldnt you want to be able to play it?Being good at guitar doesnt mean you are a wanker, it means you can play what you feel. Purposely limiting yourself on the guitar is stupid, too. Its not cool and theres no reason to do it.
#18
Quote by insideac
Why would you NOT want to be good/shred? I think it makes more sense to learn how to be very proficient at your instrument and be able to play what you want, instead of being limited to playing what you CAN. Think about it, what if you heard a cool riff in your head that was a little too fast or complex for you? Wouldnt you want to be able to play it?Being good at guitar doesnt mean you are a wanker, it means you can play what you feel. Purposely limiting yourself on the guitar is stupid, too. Its not cool and theres no reason to do it.

I really don't like when people say "just play what you feel man". That just seems to me like an excuse to not study theory and really understanding music. Maybe I feel that way because I'm bitter about people hating opera .

Edit: sorry i misread your post. my bad.
#19
Quote by whatamidoinhere
No, but it's just pathetic when people who can't play guitar are held in higher esteem than people who work their arse off practisin hours a day to get better.


my thoughts exactly

a shame that bands like green day can sell millions of records because they decided to jump on the anti-bush bandwagon and write catchy songs while aspiring guitarists who practice hours every day will never sell that much - simply because we live in a time where hip hop/pop > metal & guitar - couldn't say that back in the 80's

but that's just the way it is - the thing that really hits a nerve is the fact that a band who doesn't take their music seriously and just makes records to gain attention (or perhaps more appropriate, "chicks") can make it as a band while someone who makes music for the love and passion of it will be stranded with $20 to his name trying to make a living? does that sound right? of course not, but that's just the way it is
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#20
Quote by paniero
Green day sucks and their guitarist itsn't good because of the basicness of their songs. The same four powerchords played at a different speed isn't impressive. They just aren't very original, pretty formulatic. That's why green day sucks they their guitarist has little respect.

Billie Joe has little respect amongst musicians, however, amongst non-musicians he has great respect. Sucks doesn't it?
#21
Quote by walkinbazooka
Billie Joe has little respect amongst musicians, however, amongst non-musicians he has great respect. Sucks doesn't it?

Yeah.

He can write good songs...but he isn't a good guitarist considering how long he's played from what I see and hear. I don't listen to Green Day much anymore.

But anyway, to non-musician's the technical difficulty of a song doesn't matter. They listen to music not to judge how hard it is, but to enjoy themselves, and you don't need to listen to a very difficult song to enjoy yourself. Many non-musicians judge music by how it sounds. In my opinion, that's sort of what matter in the end.

Something simple and sounds nice > something technically difficult that sounds unpleasant.

I'm not saying that difficult music doesn't sound good though.
#22
Quote by kirbyrocknroll
Yeah.
Something simple and sounds nice > something technically difficult that sounds unpleasant.


But how many more songs are Billie Joe and other pop-punk guitarists going to be able write with the same powerchords? I'm not sure. But classically trained musicains will always be able to innovate and use their knowledge of theory to write complex songs and to keep them interesting.

Although popular music may seem to have gone awry, maybe it will continue to evolve and discover a whole new generation of musicians who will save the music industry's sorry ass.
#23
Quote by walkinbazooka
I really don't like when people say "just play what you feel man". That just seems to me like an excuse to not study theory and really understanding music. Maybe I feel that way because I'm bitter about people hating opera .

Edit: sorry i misread your post. my bad.


i studied theory for quite some time and i am an adamant believer of the play what you feel method, the only difference is, you need to know what you're doing to know how to play what you feel
#24
Quote by whatamidoinhere
No, but it's just pathetic when people who can't play guitar are held in higher esteem than people who work their arse off practisin hours a day to get better.


See, thats what he is talking about right there. Quite obviously they can play guitar. Also, if someone is practicing so often to learn to "shred" and whatnot, and is getting no where, maybe its obvious they need a change of some sort.

I personally find guitar parts based on speed and skill to be very, very boring. Watching Zakk Wylde stand up and do the same thing in the middle of everyone song gets pretty sad after awhile. These people that can play fast are considered to be the "Best" but in reality they do very little different every time.
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#25
Quote by z4twenny
i studied theory for quite some time and i am an adamant believer of the play what you feel method, the only difference is, you need to know what you're doing to know how to play what you feel

Perfectly stated. I want to say that but I couldn't quite seem to articulate it.
Thanks.
#26
Quote by walkinbazooka
Billie Joe has little respect amongst musicians, however, amongst non-musicians he has great respect. Sucks doesn't it?


maybe billie joe wants his music to be simple but nice. And he didn't ask for any fame, people gave him that. well he can solo too (if you've heard the solo in why do you want him)...maybe he doesn't want to play his guitar at like 10000 nps. he just sings about things happening in his life. and if you talk about the progress he's made, i don't think he needs to shred to show his progress. he's been playing the kind of music he likes and will always play the same. so shut up and stop writing bad stuff about green day. nobody wants to hear it, just because green day is famous and your favourite bands are in some garbage can.
#27
^for the last time, greenday sucks. its just the same four powerchords over and over again. sure he may not have asked for it, but thats what happens when you're making the music everyone else wants to hear, instead of what you want to play.

but i agree 100% with whatamidoinhere.

edit: by the way, trivium isnt in a garbage can, nor are shadows fall, metallica, or megadeth.
Last edited by TimePheonix at Aug 10, 2006,
#28
Quote by Dabey
maybe billie joe wants his music to be simple but nice. And he didn't ask for any fame, people gave him that. well he can solo too (if you've heard the solo in why do you want him)...maybe he doesn't want to play his guitar at like 10000 nps. he just sings about things happening in his life. and if you talk about the progress he's made, i don't think he needs to shred to show his progress. he's been playing the kind of music he likes and will always play the same. so shut up and stop writing bad stuff about green day. nobody wants to hear it, just because green day is famous and your favourite bands are in some garbage can.


i beg to differ...why do you think regulars of the "punk club scene" disowned them and wrote them off as sell-outs after starting to make those albums? they're not making the music they love, if they were they'd probably still be in that garbage can you spoke of because if you look at the numbers, how many "real" punk bands actually have played sold out gigs and such? about 3

i also beg to differ on the second comment - it's undeniable that people love to bash green day, you either hate them or love them, and if you love them you are bashed by those who hate; a never-ending cycle

and trust me, i'd rather listen to a "garbage can band" with passion and love for music who have the dedication to better themselves instrumentally and musically than a band who plays a recycled version of the same song, claiming to be what the media calls "punk" nowadays, and purposely appealing to teenage girls everywhere to gain a fanbase and become famous...i'll stick with the garbage can, thank you very much
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#29
Quote by TimePheonix
^for the last time, greenday sucks. its just the same four powerchords over and over again. sure he may not have asked for it, but thats what happens when you're making the music everyone else wants to hear, instead of what you want to play.

but i agree 100% with whatamidoinhere.

edit: by the way, trivium isnt in a garbage can, nor are shadows fall, metallica, or megadeth.


I'm sorry but I kinda have to admit that metallica is in the garbage can right now, but maybe they will pull themselves out with their new CD coming out.
#30
everyone has their own kind of music, green day were famous cause they're different and ppl liked their songs. they also have deep meanings and important messages in it. so stop being jealous...jealousy is a bad thing
#31
Anyway, I don't get all you people who just want to "play what you want to play". Or let me rephrase that. I get you just want to play what you want to play, but I don't get why you're at the same time saying I don't want to be able to do anything else in the future. I don't want to be versatile. I don't want to stop being lazy and learn. Because that IS what you're saying.

What about keeping options open? What about being as good as you possibly can be in any field in anything in life? Am I the only one with an ounce of ambition here?

What if the "music you want to play" changes and suddenly becomes out of your reach to play? What then?

I'll tell you what... You'll regret sitting on your ass not practicing to get better and constantly learning
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#32
^ amen, although alot of bands i enjoy aren't in the garbagecan either, ya'll may not like'em but i know they are all quite musically talented
#33
Quote by ShizNick
I'm sorry but I kinda have to admit that metallica is in the garbage can right now, but maybe they will pull themselves out with their new CD coming out.


maybe i should've specified....everything from "....And justice for all" and before that.
#34
i'm not saying unpopular bands aren't good, but just because a band got famous doesn't mean u'll try to find all the faults they have and try to show them in a bad way. they're like a million great bands, but only a few get popular. i have sympathy for those bands ppl haven't heard much about, but listening to them and liking them is a different thing. (anyway we all know a garbage can STINKS)
#35
maybe billie joe wants his music to be simple but nice. And he didn't ask for any fame, people gave him that. well he can solo too (if you've heard the solo in why do you want him)...maybe he doesn't want to play his guitar at like 10000 nps. he just sings about things happening in his life. and if you talk about the progress he's made, i don't think he needs to shred to show his progress. he's been playing the kind of music he likes and will always play the same. so shut up and stop writing bad stuff about green day. nobody wants to hear it, just because green day is famous and your favourite bands are in some garbage can.


John Mayer is not in the garbage can. He does not shred. He writes very complex music using many different techniques, chords, tunings, and melodies. Neon has more different chords, techniques, and music theory behind it than any song green day has ever written. Why? Surely not because green day likes to write simple, boring songs, that's just all they can write. Green day sucks, real musicians, regardless of genre know green day sucks, that's it.
#36
Nope. The most simple answer for this is Jack Johnson.
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#37
Quote by Dabey
i'm not saying unpopular bands aren't good, but just because a band got famous doesn't mean u'll try to find all the faults they have and try to show them in a bad way. they're like a million great bands, but only a few get popular. i have sympathy for those bands ppl haven't heard much about, but listening to them and liking them is a different thing. (anyway we all know a garbage can STINKS)


just like "just because a band is famous doesn't mean they're good" - good is subjective, and what you think is "good" may belong in a "garbage can" to someone else...you seem like a scene kid who writes off every underground band as a "garbage can band" just because they haven't hit it big or aren't played on the radio - you fail
Quote by BigFatSandwich
it took you 15 consecutive hours of practice to realize that playing guitar makes you better at playing guitar. congratulations.


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#38
love the music you think is good, but at the same time respect others' music. instead of telling how you hate a band and trying to affect their reputation try helping your favourite band be famous...by the way, if you're willing to listen to a band with a passion for music even if they're in a garbage can, then care abt them,why the f are you commenting on how green day is?

you never cared about green day or spoke about them when they weren't famous. if it was they're music you had a problem with, why didn't you write about it before? why only after they've gained some popularity?? it's not their music you dislike, but it's their popularity. and that is not the spirit of a musician. that, my friend, is jealousy.
Last edited by Dabey at Aug 10, 2006,
#39
Quote by Dabey
maybe billie joe wants his music to be simple but nice. And he didn't ask for any fame, people gave him that. well he can solo too (if you've heard the solo in why do you want him)...maybe he doesn't want to play his guitar at like 10000 nps. he just sings about things happening in his life. and if you talk about the progress he's made, i don't think he needs to shred to show his progress. he's been playing the kind of music he likes and will always play the same. so shut up and stop writing bad stuff about green day. nobody wants to hear it, just because green day is famous and your favourite bands are in some garbage can.


No one's saying he needs to shred to sound nice. We're saying his limited technical proficiency severely limits how he can express himself with the intrument.
Technical ability is absolutely required to convey emotion through your playing. Not only does it allow you to play what you feel, rather than merely what you can, it allows you to focus on articulating the notes you're playing rather than struggling just to hit them.

everyone has their own kind of music, green day were famous cause they're different and ppl liked their songs. they also have deep meanings and important messages in it. so stop being jealous...jealousy is a bad thing


No one's jealous of Greenday.
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#40
^ ha!!! yeah, i'd rather be sitting at home playing something i love that sounds good, broke as hell and unknown by the masses than be a millionaire on stage with green day playing 4 chords.....
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