#1
Alright, I am looking for some bass amplification that will fill out a mid-sized venue nicely. I'd prefer it to be a 1 head with 2 cab configuration 410 / 115(18 maybe?)

One problem however, I don't know how to shop for these things So, heres what I need to know

1 - What kind off wattage do I need to be "safe" with playing with drums and a comprable guitar amp

2 - Do I need an amp that puts out more wattage than a cab can handle? I heard that it is better that way. Seems kinda backward to me as I would figure that the head would blow out the speakers as it can't handle such high wattages, maybe? If someone can elaborate on these wattage concerns, that would be fantastic, really

3 - I would like to plug in a keyboard and have it amplified. Are two inputs common among quality heads? Would the keyboards mess with the bass sound?

4 - Is there anything special I need to plug into a venue's mixer? Is recording similar?

Alright, now that I've got those out of the way, I would like you guys to recommend some head/cab combos that work good. I am using a Marcus Miller Fender Jazz Bass w/ the active pickups and no effects. I need a good flexible sound (from jazz to metal). All of this under $1000 (or close to $1000). THANKS! HUGS AND KISSES!
#2
First off you would need an amp that is at least 100 watts.
Second the cabinet needs to handle more than the amp head. Whoever told you that was either lying or is just a dumbass.
I'm not sure about your 3rd question. My last amp head had 2 inputs and a mixed channel but I don't know how common more than one input is.
4th question you might want a mic to mic the amp to run it into the mixer. I've never tried this but you could try putting 1 of the outputs from the amp going to the mixer. Recording is basically the same concept of what you can do. I usually have it going through a mixer so I can have another preamp.

I don't really think you can get 2 cabs and a head for around a thousand new. Just check out some used equipment. I bought an old 2x15 cab for $175 about a year ago. I hear GK amps are good but when I tried a few of them out I didn't really like the sound. Ampeg is good and so is Peavey.

P.S. Don't ever try and hug or kiss me.

Unless your a girl.
But you better be hott.
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#3
Thanks for the response.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5105894&postcount=8
^Thats the post that suggested getting a more watt head than the cab can handle. Hopefully I interpreted that correctly.

Some more things...

5 - If I have let say a 500 watt head, will it push only 250 watts to each cabinet (basically 50/50?).
6 - Would I need a special room to record with a miked amp? (sound absorbant walls?)

Thanks! Hugs & Kisses (In a totally heterosexual way, as I am not female)
#4
Quote by enzoslashslash
Thanks for the response.
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5105894&postcount=8
^Thats the post that suggested getting a more watt head than the cab can handle. Hopefully I interpreted that correctly.

Some more things...

5 - If I have let say a 500 watt head, will it push only 250 watts to each cabinet (basically 50/50?).
6 - Would I need a special room to record with a miked amp? (sound absorbant walls?)

Thanks! Hugs & Kisses (In a totally heterosexual way, as I am not female)


1. Your amp (as a general rule of thumb.) should be twice as loud as your guitarists.

3. I really don't know how the bass head would handle it. I would recommend running the keyboard straight through the PA with a DI box. Also it's really up to the manufacturer (sp?) as whether the amp as two inputs or one. I know Amped and SWR both support dual imputs, and I'm not to sure on GK but I think they do as well.

4. What you will need to plug into a venue's PA varies from amp to amp, but on head/cab setups you usually have a balanced (xlr) out line on the amp. Which is the signal that would go to the PA. Of course you'll need to get an xlr cable just in case.
But if your head doesn't have a balanced out, then you can always mic it.

5. This depends on the type of head. Stereo or Mono. A mono head will only push 250watts through each cab. A stereo head will push 500watts through both. Stereo amps are, in general, more expensive.

6. You wouldn't NEED one, as you could disconnect your cabs and just go straight from the head. But it's thought of as better to do both (micing the cab, and doing a line out through the head.) as it give you a fuller sound.

Another thing you should be looking at is impedance (ohms). Amps are rated (most commonly) at 2, 4, and 8 ohms. These number work like fractions (yay math!). A 4 ohm head will be able to support two 8 ohm cabs, or one 4 ohm cab. A 2 ohm head will be able to support two 4 ohm cabs, four 8 ohm cabs, one 4 ohm and two 8 ohm cabs, or one 2 ohm cab. Basically the most you want the impedance to add up to is 1 (1/2, 1/4, 1/8). Anything more will destroy your head.

Also on impedance as the fractions go down so does wattage. So an 8 ohm head/cab is half the power of a 4 ohm head/cab, and that is half the power of a 2 ohm head/cab.

most companies make cabs in either 4 or 8 ohm, and the same with heads. It is also best (you will get the most wattage out of one cab with a mono head) to match the impedance 2/2, 4/4, 8/8.

That's how it was explained to me, hope that helps. (That last part is my little push to get you away from two cabs, but it's your choice.)
#5
Thanks a bunch elemenohpee!

I think I spotted out a nice head

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-BBT500H-500W-Digital-Bass-Amp-Head?sku=480819

Tell me what you guys think about that

One more thing, Where could I find a 2 ohm cab for that head?

Yamaha BBT500H 500W Digital Bass Amp Head Features:

* 500W @ 2 ohms
* 24-bit A/D/A conversion
* 48kHz sampling frequency
* 5 user memory locations
* Monaural effects send/return
* Speaker simulator
* Noise gate
* MIDI I/O
* Variable crossover
* Headphone and tuner outs

Yamaha BBT500H 500W Digital Bass Amp Head Specifications:

* Power amp: Class-D circuitry, 500W @ 2 ohms
* Preamp: All-digital signal processing, 11 sound types, 5-band semi-parametric tone controls (variable frequencies)
* Effect section: Compressor, output limiter, noise gate, crossover, speaker simulator
* Output level/impedance: 500W RMS/2 ohms, 250W RMS/4 ohms
* Dimensions: 14-7/8"W x 3-7/16"H x 10-7/16"D
* 11 lbs.
Last edited by enzoslashslash at Aug 11, 2006,
#6
Quote by bassplayer91
Second the cabinet needs to handle more than the amp head. Whoever told you that was either lying or is just a dumbass.

here is a post I quoted from one of the wise bass-gurus on Talkbass.com

...having way more power than you actually need is generally a desirable thing all by itself. For this reason, it's very common to see people using amps with way more max output than their speakers (cabs) are rated for. With intelligent use, this typically works fine. I do it myself, and so do many knowledgeable people here.

However, there is no 'correct' way to do it...Having a cab that can handle more power than the amp is pushing into it is no better or worse than having an amp that pushes more than its cab can handle...Its just a matter of personal preference, none of the two give you an ounce more headroom...The advantage to having a more powerful head than cab is the fact that you will not be in danger of running your head at full power (unless you're stupid and want to blow your cab), running at full power is never good...and the advantage to having a cab that handles more than is being pushed into it is the fact that you will never blow the cab...The disadvantage of having a more powerful amp than the cab can handle is the obvious risk of blowing the cab if you're not careful, and the disadvantage of having a cab that can handle more than the amp is the un-obvious risk of damaging the amp head by running it at dangerously high powers (which causes clipping and damages the head)...

I'm not 100% sure on this but I've read up on it a lot because I'm curious about this too...

Anyway, what you should concern yourself with is how much power you need...Like elemenohpee stated, it's usually governed by how much power your guitarist(s) has, take that and double it (maybe even triple it if he has a tube amp or full stack) and thats pretty much what you need...
"All matter is merely energy condensed into a slow vibration and we're all one consciousness experiencing ourselves subjectively, theres no such thing as death, life is just a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves."
Last edited by XeNoCiDe730 at Aug 11, 2006,
#7
Well thank you, XeNoCiDe! That clears that up.

However, whats the difference between RMS handling and Peak watt handling?
Nevermind that, just found out
RMS or Peak?
The difference between RMS and peak power ratings is a crucial concept for the A/V shopper to understand. Peak power ratings refer to the amount of power an amplifier produces, or a speaker can handle, for a brief musical burst ? like the crack of a kick drum. RMS power describes the amount of continuous power an amplifier produces, or a speaker can handle. The RMS power rating is always the more significant number, as it is a more accurate reflection of a component's performance in daily use.
Last edited by enzoslashslash at Aug 11, 2006,
#8
RMS power handling/output = the real power that the cab can handle/ amp can put out
Peak power = the max power the cab can handle for 1-2 seconds/ the max power the head can power out for about 1-2 seconds

Peak power and other measurements like it are not to be trusted or used as an accurate measure of continuos power handling/output...Peak power is usually 2x or 4x as much as the RMS power...

Example
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-Ultrabass-BA410-1000W-4x10-Bass-Cabinet?sku=600605
1000W?...on a Behringer 410??...Thats obviously Peak power, however they dont mention it anywhere in the product description because they try to fool the people who dont know much about amps and cabs...That thing can handle about 300W RMS tops...

As for a cab to buy...Look into avatar, I swear these things get rave reviews everywhere!..They sell for pretty cheap too...
www.avatarspeakers.com

EDIT: Oh ok, looks like you understand the RMS thing already.
"All matter is merely energy condensed into a slow vibration and we're all one consciousness experiencing ourselves subjectively, theres no such thing as death, life is just a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves."
Last edited by XeNoCiDe730 at Aug 11, 2006,
#9
Quote by enzoslashslash
Thanks a bunch elemenohpee!

I think I spotted out a nice head

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-BBT500H-500W-Digital-Bass-Amp-Head?sku=480819

Tell me what you guys think about that

One more thing, Where could I find a 2 ohm cab for that head?

Yamaha BBT500H 500W Digital Bass Amp Head Features:

* 500W @ 2 ohms
* 24-bit A/D/A conversion
* 48kHz sampling frequency
* 5 user memory locations
* Monaural effects send/return
* Speaker simulator
* Noise gate
* MIDI I/O
* Variable crossover
* Headphone and tuner outs

Yamaha BBT500H 500W Digital Bass Amp Head Specifications:

* Power amp: Class-D circuitry, 500W @ 2 ohms
* Preamp: All-digital signal processing, 11 sound types, 5-band semi-parametric tone controls (variable frequencies)
* Effect section: Compressor, output limiter, noise gate, crossover, speaker simulator
* Output level/impedance: 500W RMS/2 ohms, 250W RMS/4 ohms
* Dimensions: 14-7/8"W x 3-7/16"H x 10-7/16"D
* 11 lbs.


There are a couple things on this head that bother me (mostly cause I don't know much about them).
1. Class D Watts. I do know that there is a rating system for how loud watts are (Class A I know is the highest. 15 Class A equals about 150watts.) So I don't know if it is going to be louder or quiter than normal 500.

2. 2 ohms. While it may seem like a good idea, products that are 2 ohm are generally hard to find, and most companies only do 4 and 8. You'll be hard pressed to find a matching 2 ohm cab (unless yamaha makes one.)

I've also never had experiance with yamaha amps (I didn't even know they made them.) but the majority of their products are very nice.

Well thank you, XeNoCiDe! That clears that up.

However, whats the difference between RMS handling and Peak watt handling?


Ah Xeno, you beat me to it, and you had a better explination.
#10
Quote by elemenohpee
There are a couple things on this head that bother me (mostly cause I don't know much about them).
1. Class D Watts. I do know that there is a rating system for how loud watts are (Class A I know is the highest. 15 Class A equals about 150watts.) So I don't know if it is going to be louder or quiter than normal 500.

I agree with the wattage thing..."class D wattage" seems pretty shady...If class A is good than what can class D be?...

I wouldnt trust that amp but thats just me..

Quote by elemenohpee

2. 2 ohms. While it may seem like a good idea, products that are 2 ohm are generally hard to find, and most companies only do 4 and 8. You'll be hard pressed to find a matching 2 ohm cab (unless yamaha makes one.)

I've also never had experiance with yamaha amps (I didn't even know they made them.) but the majority of their products are very nice.

yeah I would only get a 2ohm amp for an amp company with a "tried and true" reputation for great or outstanding amplifiers, such as Peavey, Carvin, Eden, etc.

Quote by elemenohpee

Ah Xeno, you beat me to it, and you had a better explination.

"All matter is merely energy condensed into a slow vibration and we're all one consciousness experiencing ourselves subjectively, theres no such thing as death, life is just a dream and we're the imagination of ourselves."
#11
1. i would strongly recommend 200+ watts@8ohms.

2. it is better to have too much amp, for a cab, then not enough. you will blow a 400 watt cab easier, with a 200 watt amp, than a 600 watt amp. an amps signal gets very "trashy" as it reaches it's max output. this trashy signal will cause the speakers to move sideways, as well as the normal, in and out. this sideways or "distorted" movement will allow the windings of the speaker cone, to make contact with the magnet, causing a dead short. = blown speakers.

3. i do not recommend playing two instruments from the same amp, at the same time.
the frequencies will cancel each other out. a bass amp makes a great keyboard amp, but not at the same time, with the bass guitar.

4. most bass amps have a line-out, some have XLR outs. either is just fine for linking to a P.A. (XLR is best).

in this price range, i recommend used Ampeg equipment. perhaps a B2RE or SVT350H
amp, with a BSE410HLF or SVT810 cab. used pro class equipt. is better than new, intermediate equipt.

if you must have new, check out Hartke, GK, Peavey, SWR, and Ashdown. avoid Crate, Behringer, and Yamaha. the opinions are my own.
#12
Quote by XeNoCiDe730
I agree with the wattage thing..."class D wattage" seems pretty shady...If class A is good than what can class D be?...

I wouldnt trust that amp but thats just me..


yeah I would only get a 2ohm amp for an amp company with a "tried and true" reputation for great or outstanding amplifiers, such as Peavey, Carvin, Eden, etc.




Actually Class D is better than class A. It's not like grades in school. Class D is a much more efficient circuitry typically found on higher end equipment. As far as the cabs, you don't need to find 2 ohm cabs. The amp runs 250 watts @ 4ohms and 500 watts @ 2 ohms. You can either run your amp to two 250 watt/4ohm cabs parallel, to one 500 watt 2 ohm cab, or to one 250 watt 4ohm cab (although this last setup will only get you 250 watts of power.). I currently have this amp, and run it paralell to two 250 Watt @ 4ohms Yamaha BBT-410S cabs. I can't turn up too loud or the rest of the band can't hear themselves play. It rocks! Just check out the reviews on musician's friend and other sights. You really can't beat it for the price. Hope this helps.
#13
I have a hartke 3500 its like, 310 or something into 4 ohms. I run through 230 at 8 ohms though, you could have your one 15 and 4x10 and make it 4 ohms with 2 8 ohm cabs. You can get them pretty cheap these days too.
#14
If you raise your amp off the floor a little bit (maybe 1 foot) it will project a lot better. That's the reason for kick-back amps. Another thing that nobody knows is that if the bass sounds good to you, it will probably be way too bassy out in the crowd. Turn your highs up a bit so the audience can actually hear what you're playing because it sounds a lot muddier 20 feet away. That's really some good advice for all the people that write those reviews that say "OMFG THIS AMP SUX YOU NOOBZ I PUT THE BASS AND THE VOLUME ON 11 AND THE SPEAKER BLEW OUT OMFG NOOBZ NOOBZ WTF!" idiots
#17
^this is what happens when u tell people to search old threads, they respond to them.
#18
I learned all this stuff 8 hours ago... then I forgot it all.. and this thread helped me out a lot to remember it! damn insomnia...

Thanks OODLES.
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It had a number, written on his forearm
It spelled disaster