#1
Alright, I have several theory related questions so let's see who can clarfiy what for me.

I'm a little confused with naming of chords. I understand the basics, sus chords and the like, but I am confused with things like the difference between C9 and Cadd9.

Also, there are major and minor 3rd's, 6th's, and 7th's, yes?

Now, let's say I have a Minor triad, Em for example, and I play a 6th also. What is that chord called?

Once, I saw a chord that was just Bsus (not 2nd or 4th). How is this played, or is it a typo?

What makes a dominant chord? And a diminished chord?

Finally, can someone list all the modes in order. I know some, but not all.

I know that's a load of questions, so don't feel like you have to answer them all. Whatever wisdom you can offer will be much appreciated.

Cheers
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#2
The difference between C9 and Cadd9 is the C9 includes the 7th so it's 1 3 5 b7 9 where as the Cadd9 is just 1 3 5 9

Yes and there are also major and minor 2nds. (assuming you're refering to intervals)

Emadd6. If you're add a note to a three note chord (that isn't the 7th) just put add# at the end.

I believe the Bsus is short for Bsus4 but I could be wrong here. It's just a shortened version of one of them.

Dominant chord: 1 3 5 b7
Diminished chord: 1 b3 b5
Diminished 7th chord: 1 b3 b5 bb7

I Did Pee Last Monday After Lunch - Ionian Dorian Phrygian Lydian Mixolydian Aeolian Locrian
#3
Ionian, Dorian, Phygrian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian
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#4
The Bsus, in jazz, is just short for: B7sus4, which is 1 4 5 b7

The rest is correctly answered by spoonofshred
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#5
Quote by systemrules
Alright, I have several theory related questions so let's see who can clarfiy what for me. I'm a little confused with naming of chords. I understand the basics, sus chords and the like, but I am confused with things like the difference between C9 and Cadd9.
The presence of an extension (9, in this case) implies the inclusion of all extensions below it. In other words, a C9 chord includes not only the 9 (a D) but also the 7 below it (a Bb). By the way, the diatonic 7th is a B natural, but by convention and long, long usage, the 7 used in chord extensions is the dominant 7 (Bb, in this case) unless otherwise indicated.
Also, there are major and minor 3rd's, 6th's, and 7th's, yes?
Yes
Now, let's say I have a Minor triad, Em for example, and I play a 6th also. What is that chord called?
We call this chord an Em6.
Once, I saw a chord that was just Bsus (not 2nd or 4th). How is this played, or is it a typo?
There seems to be some difference of opinion among players regarding this notation. I was taught that the sus chord was identical to the sus4 chord, namely: 1 4 5, and that's how I play it.
What makes a dominant chord?
1 3 5 b7
And a diminished chord?
1 b3 b5. The fully-diminished chord is 1 b3 b5 bb7
Finally, can someone list all the modes in order?

1. Ionian
2. Dorian
3. Phyrgian
4. Lydian
5. Mixolydian
6. Aeolian
7. Locrian
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#6
I love you all.

But one last clarification: b3 for a diminished chord, can there be major and minor diminished chords in which case you just flatten the appropriate 3rd? or is there a standard way of approaching it?

Thanks again
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Last edited by systemrules at Aug 11, 2006,
#7
Quote by systemrules
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But one last clarification: b3 for a diminished chord, can there be major and minor diminished chords in which case you just flatten the appropriate 3rd? or is there a standard way of approaching it?
No, with the diminished chord, what you see is what you get: 1 b3 b5. I'm not sure, though, what you mean by "flatten(ing) the appropriate 3rd". What did you mean by that?
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#8
diminished chords also have a flat fifth, so its: 1 b3 b5. there's one in each key
#9
Quote by gpb0216
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No, with the diminished chord, what you see is what you get: 1 b3 b5. I'm not sure, though, what you mean by "flatten(ing) the appropriate 3rd". What did you mean by that?

I meant that, depending on the root, the third can be 2 tones or one and a half from the root. So when you flatten a note you go down a semitone, right? Which means depending on the triad (major or minor) the flat third could be 1 tone or 1 and a half tones from the root. I don't know if I'm approaching this correctly. Maybe if someone could give me a break-down of an example diminished chord.

edit: ooooooooooooooooooooh, I think I've figured it out. The diminished chord in every scale is the 7th dgree of a major scale, right? I hope so.
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#10
Quote by systemrules
I meant that, depending on the root, the third can be 2 tones or one and a half from the root. So when you flatten a note you go down a semitone, right? Which means depending on the triad (major or minor) the flat third could be 1 tone or 1 and a half tones from the root. I don't know if I'm approaching this correctly. Maybe if someone could give me a break-down of an example diminished chord.
Many people stumble on this exact point, so I'm very glad you've raised this issue. Whenever we're analyzing intervals, either separately or within chords, we always treat the lowest tone as if it were the tonic of its major scale.

So, for example, if we're building a diminished triad on a B, this B becomes the temporary tonic of a B major scale. That being the case, a minor third (m3) up from B is D and the flatted fifth (b5) up from B is F.

Let's build this diminished triad another way. We know that we can build a diminished triad by stacking two m3s. Starting again at the B we already know ascending by a m3 brings us to D.

This time, however, instead of figuring what the b5 above B is, let's ascend a m3 from the triad's second tone, D. To do this we make the D the temporary tonic of a D major scale. Ascending a m3 from this D brings us to F.

In both cases we arrive at the diminished triad built on B, namely B D F (1 b3 b5).

I hope this is making sense. If not, keeping pinging me and/or the forum until it clicks for you.

edit: ooooooooooooooooooooh, I think I've figured it out. The diminished chord in every scale is the 7th dgree of a major scale, right? I hope so.
The following diatonic triads are diminished - 1 b3 b5:
* the triad built on the seventh degree of the major scale
* the triad built on the second degree of the natural minor scale
* the triad built on the second degree of the harmonic minor scale
* the triad built on the seventh degree of the harmonic minor scale
* the triad built on the sixth degree of the ascending form of the melodic minor scale
* the triad built on the seventh degree of the ascending form of the melodic minor scale
* the triad built on the second degree of the descending form of the melodic minor scale
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- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
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#11
you know how the fully diminished is 1, b3, b5, bb7
instead of writing bb7, couldnt you just write 6? eg: 1, b3, b5 6
- tommy
#12
so, can you have a 1 3 b5 triad? Is it ever diatonically correct and what is called?
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#14
Quote by tombomb22
you know how the fully diminished is 1, b3, b5, bb7
instead of writing bb7, couldnt you just write 6? eg: 1, b3, b5 6



a 6th would be an enharmonic tone ( same pitch ) but it (the dim7th ) needs to be properly spelled with some degree of a 7th. in this case bb7.
#16
does anyone have an example of a song where diminished chords are used without sounding awful? which is the only way I have been able to use them so far.
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