#1
i have forgotten how to build a 9th chord and i cant find the material i have it all written down on. could someone help me and give me the formula for it?
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#3
for all 9th chords, its the same as the 7th chord plus a major 9th.


9: 1 M3 P5 m7 M9
Maj9: 1 M3 P5 M7 M9
m9: 1 m3 P5 m7 M9
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#4
Quote by UtBDan
for all 9th chords, its the same as the 7th chord plus a major 9th.


9: 1 M3 P5 m7 M9
Maj9: 1 M3 P5 M7 M9
m9: 1 m3 P5 m7 M9



The 9 is also the 2 right? Same note?
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#5
Yes, 'tis. Chnages depending on placement relative to the root. There are some other rules regarding 2/9, 4/11, and 6/13, but I seem to have misplaced them...
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#6
Quote by feltgrape
The 9 is also the 2 right? Same note?
Yes, the 2nd and 9th are the same note. The difference lies in whether or not the 7th, either b7 or diatonic 7, appears in the chord.

If the 7th does appear in the chord, it's a 9.

If the 7th does not appear in the chord, it's a 2.
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- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
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#7
Quote by gpb0216
Yes, the 2nd and 9th are the same note. The difference lies in whether or not the 7th, either b7 or diatonic 7, appears in the chord.

If the 7th does appear in the chord, it's a 9.

If the 7th does not appear in the chord, it's a 2.


Knowing the difference between a sus2 chord and an add9 has confused me.
This still confuses me though after your explanation :
----0------
----3------
----0------
----2------
----3------
----------


I know this chord is a Cadd9, and the 7th doesn't appear in the chord. So why is it called Cadd9 and not Csus2?

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#8
Quote by Morgy
Knowing the difference between a sus2 chord and an add9 has confused me.
This still confuses me though after your explanation :
----0------
----3------
----0------
----2------
----3------
----------


I know this chord is a Cadd9, and the 7th doesn't appear in the chord. So why is it called Cadd9 and not Csus2?
Oh yeah, the +9. Sorry about the omission.

The sus2 doesn't contain the chord's 3rd, whereas the add9 does. So, for example, a C+9 contains the tones C E G D E (as in your tab).

A sus2, on the other hand, contains only the tones 1 2 5 (C D G using our example in C), in much the same way that a sus4 (or just sus) contains only the tones 1 4 5 (C F G in the case of the Csus4/Csus).
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- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
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#10
You're very welcome - I'm glad this helped.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#11
Thanks a lot, gpb0216. Been confused with that for ages

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#12
What about add2/add4 chords? are these improper naming or does it depend on which octave the notes are in relative to the root?
#13
anything "add" is the higher number... 9, 11, or 13.

Never "add2" or "add4" or "add6"...
-add2 -> add9
-add4 -> add11
-add6 -> maj6 or m6
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#14
Quote by gpb0216

A sus2, on the other hand, contains only the tones 1 2 5 (C D G using our example in C), in much the same way that a sus4 (or just sus) contains only the tones 1 4 5 (C F G in the case of the Csus4/Csus).

if the chord is just sus, then it implies that there is a b7 also in the chord
#15
Quote by quinny1089
if the chord is just sus, then it implies that there is a b7 also in the chord



no , what makes the chord suspended is that a 2nd or 4th replaces the 3rd.
#16
Quote by quinny1089
if the chord is just sus, then it implies that there is a b7 also in the chord
This is a point on which reasonable people can disagree. I was taught, both privately and in the Armed Forces School of Music, that sus (also sus4) called for a chord consisting only of the tones 1 4 5. For the b7 to be included the symbol had to explicitly call for it, as in C7sus4.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
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#17
Yeah, from my experience...

sus2 = 1 2 5
sus4 = 1 4 5
sus = 1 4 5 b7

I see this nomeclature more often than not. However, playing 1 4 5 when it says "sus" is usually acceptable.
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#18
I'm just wondering gpb0216, seeing as it is kind of related and so i don't have to create a new thread:

Is the rules for 11 and 13 chords the same as the 9 chords? I mean for it to be an 11th chord and not a 4th, does it have to have a 7th in it? Same for the 13th -> if 7th is in chord then it is a 13th, but if not then is it a 6th?


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#19
Quote by Morgy
I'm just wondering gpb0216, seeing as it is kind of related and so i don't have to create a new thread: Is the rules for 11 and 13 chords the same as the 9 chords? I mean for it to be an 11th chord and not a 4th, does it have to have a 7th in it? Same for the 13th -> if 7th is in chord then it is a 13th, but if not then is it a 6th?
The rule says that any extension (9, 11 or 13) assumes all chord extensions below it. In other words, an 11 chord assumes the presence of both the 9 and the 7; a 13 chord assumes the 11, 9 and 7 are included.

The 7th is the determining extension. If it's in the chord, we're talking about the chord extensions 9, 11 or 13.

If the 7th does not appear in the chord, we're talking about +2, +4 and either 6 or +6 chords.

By the way, the 13 is as high as we go with extensions because the 15 merely duplicates the chord's root at the double-octave.
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- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
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#20
Quote by gpb0216
This is a point on which reasonable people can disagree. I was taught, both privately and in the Armed Forces School of Music, that sus (also sus4) called for a chord consisting only of the tones 1 4 5. For the b7 to be included the symbol had to explicitly call for it, as in C7sus4.


yer, ive seen alot of disagreement over this particular subject, but i think i remember a thread on this a few years ago where it was discussed/argued and i think they general concensus was that sus meant there was a b7 present as well.

I guess it doesnt matter that much anyway, i think out of the times ive seen that chord, more often than not its been named 7sus4 anyway
#21
Quote by gpb0216
The rule says that any extension (9, 11 or 13) assumes all chord extensions below it. In other words, an 11 chord assumes the presence of both the 9 and the 7; a 13 chord assumes the 11, 9 and 7 are included.


thought id just also point out that the 9th and 11th are not essential in a 13th chord (its impossible to play a 13 chord with both those tones on a normal guitar anyway, 1 3 5 7 9 11 13...thats 7 tones and there are only 6 strings)

and also, the 9th is not essential in an 11th chord
#22
^Right, they are not required. They get dropped before even the 5th does, from what I know.
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#23
Quote by quinny1089
thought id just also point out that the 9th and 11th are not essential in a 13th chord (its impossible to play a 13 chord with both those tones on a normal guitar anyway, 1 3 5 7 9 11 13...thats 7 tones and there are only 6 strings)
and also, the 9th is not essential in an 11th chord
While it's true that the 9th and 11th aren't essential in a 13th chord, it is possible to play a 13 chord including these two tones (F and D in a C13). To do that, though, the guitarist has to make a decision as to which of the other tone(s) to omit and/or double. In other words, we guitarists have to make decisions regarding chord voicing.

Even if we could play every tone in a 13th chord, we probably wouldn't. For example, the unaltered 3rd and 11th set up some serious dissonance when played together (E and F in a C13 chord).

You've raised an excellent point. The extension rule, like most rules, is simply a starting point. Experience and taste are what turn chords and their extensions into music.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
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#24
Quote by redwing_suck
^Right, they are not required. They get dropped before even the 5th does, from what I know.
In practice the 5th is actually one of the first tones you'd want to drop, as it contributes very little to the tonal color of the chord.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
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#25
hm well I understand that. But from a few of the guys I know who are really into jazz, they say they drop the 9th and 11th in 13th chords before the 5th. It might be preference, and we might have been discussing this for a special case (like an alt chord something along those lines). But who knows.
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#26
Quote by redwing_suck
hm well I understand that. But from a few of the guys I know who are really into jazz, they say they drop the 9th and 11th in 13th chords before the 5th. It might be preference, and we might have been discussing this for a special case (like an alt chord something along those lines). But who knows.
Fascinating. I've just run through my eight favorite 13th chords and only one of them contains the 5th. Well, if we all played everything exactly alike this stuff would be pretty boring indeed.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
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For everything you need to know - gpb0216.