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#1
ok here is my situation.......ive been playing for about 4 years(im 17) and for probably about the last 5 months ive been playing every day at least 10 hours and gotten to the point where im just gonna start practicing all day(all my "friends" and love interests kind of proved themselves to bel ameasses so my social life is pretty much dead) Im gonna be applying to berklee in the fall and am hoping to get in on an academic scholarship........anyways , although my practice sessions are already pretty organized,im working on putting together a "15 hr perfect practice routine(i am ****ing obsessed)", and was looking for ideas of what to incorporate...i wanted to break it up into 5hrs of single note technique, 5hrs of chord work(progressions ,voicings, changes, comping,)and 5hrs of other skills(sight reading,aural training,transposing,repertoire,theory studies) the reason i tell you is because i want this routine to be perfect and incorporate everything i would need to play Jazz improvisation o just jazz in general(Ted Greene,Joe Pass,Pat Martino, Wes Montgomery , Ali Dimeola ) was hoping that anybody with experience in this style could give me suggestions on things to add or good ways to work in the other areas.....thanks for suggestions......
Last edited by dwayne5000 at Aug 17, 2006,
#5
theres no life for me where i am ....its the ****ing gay ass salton sea....so musics the only thing I have that will get me the **** outta here
#6
You are an idiot. What, you want to shred? Go to a therapist. There's no way you'll ever become a musician thats widely appreciated if it is an obsessive chore. Relax, play five hours a day tops. You can damage your hands extremely easily by doing that much repetitive strain on them.
#7
Alright, a fifteen hour practice routine.... I'm pretty sure Cor wouldn't recommend this.

But since he's not here, fifteen hours. How much time will you be putting in for breaks?

And if you aren't already, consider dedicating some of that time to exercise. It'll help you to stay healthy.
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#8
Quote by johnmalkin
You are an idiot. What, you want to shred? Go to a therapist. There's no way you'll ever become a musician thats widely appreciated if it is an obsessive chore. Relax, play five hours a day tops. You can damage your hands extremely easily by doing that much repetitive strain on them.


Not if he's practicing correctly with proper physical and mental form - sure he's going to take breaks, and play maybe 10-12 at the most. It's not preferrable, by any means - but it's do-able with the right amount of mental awareness and concentration.

The guy wants to dedicate himself to becoming the best he can with devotion to his instrument and you insult him for that? You are an idiot.
#10
Quote by johnmalkin
You are an idiot. What, you want to shred? Go to a therapist. There's no way you'll ever become a musician thats widely appreciated if it is an obsessive chore. Relax, play five hours a day tops. You can damage your hands extremely easily by doing that much repetitive strain on them.


dont worry about it ....im not playing to be "widely respected" and its not a chore for me ...i love seeing the progress and just playing the instrument period its all i need to make me practice.........ive been working up to this fifteen hours a day, ive already looked into RSI and talked to my doctor and former teacher about it, i fixed my technique a long time ago and have taken all the steps to prevent RSI
Last edited by dwayne5000 at Aug 17, 2006,
#11
Quote by Johnljones7443
Not if he's practicing correctly with proper physical and mental form - sure he's going to take breaks, and play maybe 10-12 at the most. It's not preferrable, by any means - but it's do-able with the right amount of mental awareness and concentration.

The guy wants to dedicate himself to becoming the best he can with devotion to his instrument and you insult him for that? You are an idiot.



Devotion can become an obsession. He most likely will damage his playing with RSI, Carpal Tunnel, or any other kind of thing, which can permanently cease his playing. Nobody wants that to happen, and I was just saying. I apologize if I upset your weak composure.
#12
Quote by dwayne5000
dont worry about ....im not playing to be "widely respected" and its not a chore for me ...i love seeing the progress and just playing the instrument period its all i need to make me practice.........ive been working up to this fifteen hours a day, ive already looked into RSI and talked to my doctor and former teacher about it, i fixed my technique a long time ago and have taken all the steps to prevent RSI



Don't you feel sasd that you're missing out on everything else? I mean, I want to become an awesome player too, but isn't it best to do it when you are most relaxed? Then again, that could be the way you relax, and I don't know. Just my 5 cents worth.
#13
Maybe be you should look into the Steve Vais 10 hour-workout, that works on tonnes of things, theres a couple of tabs on this site that i know of, and the magazine total guitar tabbed it out a while back....
#14
Quote by johnmalkin
Devotion can become an obsession. He most likely will damage his playing with RSI, Carpal Tunnel, or any other kind of thing, which can permanently cease his playing. Nobody wants that to happen, and I was just saying. I apologize if I upset your weak composure.


It isn't going to happen if he practices correctly. Correct practice doesn't stress any muscles at all at any point unless needed... if he's doing say... 10 hours of slow practice and 5 hours of fast practice, spread out of course, not continuous.. he isn't going to hurt himself. Ever. He'll be stressing muscles, of course and pushing them, and might well go beyond the point of no return if he pushes too hard... but he says he's built up to 15 hours, which is so important.

His muscles are used to the 'excess stress long hours of practice are going to put on his muscles - they're accustomed to it, they know it. Practice anything slow for aslong as you want, you'll never get any faster... but combine slow practice and fast practice and you'll propel your ability to play at faster speeds. Why? Because your muscles will be accustomed to playing at that speed. You cannot play at a certain speed if you've never been there before (cleanly or sloppily)... you can never play anything at that speed cleanly unless you've experiend it before...

The same principle applies to his practice routine... by buildnig up, he's been there before and his muscles are accustomed to playing for long hours, relieving the stress...and I hope to god he plays with absolutely zilch tension unless needed and then discarded, becaus it will do damage no doubt... but as I've explained, if he's built up to that stage properly, his health will be in danger what-so-ever. No RSI. No carpal tunnel and no 'any-kind-of-other thing'.

And apology accepted.
#15
Quote by quinny1089
Maybe be you should look into the Steve Vais 10 hour-workout, that works on tonnes of things, theres a couple of tabs on this site that i know of, and the magazine total guitar tabbed it out a while back....


i dont really like to run exercises that arent musical (most stuff in the vai workout)i usually run joe pass licks for my speed ....but what I was looking for was ideas for my chord section....im working out of chord chemistry by ted greene and wanted some ideas to help me memorize the hundreds of inversions..... i usually just sort the different positions out by roots and try to memorize but this isnt to effective for me
#16
Quote by dwayne5000
i dont really like to run exercises that arent musical (most stuff in the vai workout)i usually run joe pass licks for my speed ....but what I was looking for was ideas for my chord section....im working out of chord chemistry by ted greene and wanted some ideas to help me memorize the hundreds of inversions..... i usually just sort the different positions out by roots and try to memorize but this isnt to effective for me



How do you go to school and still do 10 hours a day?
Let alone 15 hours a day?
You couldnt of dropped out, then i dont think you'd have that great of a chance getting to berkley?
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#17
Quote by feltgrape
How do you go to school and still do 10 hours a day?
Let alone 15 hours a day?
You couldnt of dropped out, then i dont think you'd have that great of a chance getting to berkley?


well since its summer break until september 11 i can practice all day until then , even when school starts, i only have 2 periods jazz band and P.E. , I finished all my required credits when i was a sophomore through summer school and 0 periods,so i get out at 9:30am
#19
15 hours thats like every free second of every day .

I hope it pays off for you, and good luck getting into Berkley .
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#20
Holy ****, maybe denizenz has a bit more going with his 'shred' post than I've given him credit. Why be negative if the man loves music so much that it's what keeps him going and satisfied with his life, as he stated?

A few pieces of advice I have (although they somewhat dodge your original question - my apologies)

To know jazz, you have to listen to jazz, period. Perhaps take some break time between your playing periods and just listen to jazz music. It'll give your fingers a rest and expose you to new melodic, harmonious, and rhythmic ideas. One of the most important things we can do as musicians I think is listen to music. Memorize the flow of your favorite songs, listen to a good variety, etc.

Be very careful that you aren't applying more pressure to the fretboard than necessary, that your wrist is never arched funny, etc. Make sure that you won't kill your abilities to play guitar forever! Also, for good circulation and bloodflow throughout your whole body (like your hands), excersise is always good, as psych stated.

Good luck getting into Berklee


Slurgi
#21
if you can practice for 15 hours correctly, then you are my new idol

i don't know about berklee though, it's extremely expensive (about $20,000 a semester if i remember correctly, or maybe it was per year) and the chances of getting it lowered to a reasonable amount with academic scholarships is highly unlikely, but if you seriously have been dedicating all that time to practicing correctly and learning to improvise, you might be able to get an even better scholarship

does anyone know of any affordable music colleges that offer guitar and are halfway decent? all the one's i've heard of that major in guitar are outrageous
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#22
Its funny how noones even attempted to help him with his question yet (the 5 hours of chord practice). I can't though (actually itd probably help me too )
#23
15 hours a day is way way way too much man. QUALITY NOT QUANTITY. That my friend should be your mantra. Not to mention the repetive motion injury you would be causing yourself. Three hours a day MAX. Change it up everyday. ie one day chords one day theory one day lead technique. Then, for the love of God take a day off even a few. It helps believe me.
#24
make sure your action is really low
and if your hands hurt or cramp at all, make sure to take a break
eat right too
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#25
lol, I also think that 15 hours is way to excessive. But I disagree with 3 hours MAX, and take a day off.... more than three hours is ok, and if you love your instrument, you mightnot want to take a day off. I know i don't like to.

As for the original question, I wish I could help, but I don't follow music theory to be honest. In terms of chords, when its not a basic chord, I don't really feel the need to name it or find a name for it, I just play and any new chord fingerings I just make up. Music theory purists would disagree, but I don't find theory to be a neccesity when writing at all.. you can experiment plenty without.
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#27
Personally, I think it's a dumb idea.

First of all, there's no way you are gonna do 15 hours a day all of the sudden. You have to have some serious inspiration besides "I'm bored and this town sucks and I want to be better." Perhaps you haven't told us your inspirational moment but from the looks of things, you haven't had it. I even doubt you're seriously doing 10 hours a day. That's a shitballs lot of time.

You would probably need constant guidance from a teacher to not harm yourself. You can't just launch into a long workout schedule... it will be useless. It's like weighing 90 pounds, walking into a weight room for the first time, and trying to bench 200lbs. Not gonna happen.

But hey, that's my two cents, and if you actually pull off 15 (FULL) hours a day for a month WITHOUT harming yourself, kudos to you.

But it's very hard for a brain to stay completely at attention for 15 hours, even with breaks.


red
Looking for my India/Django.
#29
if you are planning on going to a music school, make sure you are a realitively competant keyboard player . this will save you from learning a new instrument on top of an already heavy work load.

I would call the school and ask them how your time would be best spent preparing.
#30
I dont care how much he's built up to, 15 hrs a day with no day long breaks is stupid, not to mention obsessive. Do you ever listen to music? Thats as important IMO.

Muscles only get stronger and heal when they are rested.
#32
Quote by MySweetFracture
Muscles only get stronger and heal when they are rested.
Aha! I had something else to say but I couldn't remember it until you said it. Nicely put... my strength/hockey coach in high school always stressed resting your muscles. When you exercise and do things not normally in your bodily routine, you make microscopic tears in your muscles (this is why you're sore after you exercise). If you give them a day to rest, they repair and build more than what was previously there. Hence, you get stronger. If you don't rest, they can't repair.


Quote by Peaceful Rocker
sounds like a real good way to suck the fun out of playing the guitar

lol
Looking for my India/Django.
#33
tone it down a bit....

playing and practising are two different things, balance the two!
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#34
Wow. Just Wow. I could not do that, there is just no way, I would eventually get bored lol...right now I get bored fast though, because I can't play much, and I'm just at a beginning level. I've noticed on my saxophone that I've gotten to a level where I can pull it out and practice for hours no problem if my mouth doesn't give out or I run out of stuff to work on...but I'm not there yet on guitar...I wish I could answer your question...but I don't know much about that sort of stuff...sorry. Good lucky with Berkley.
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#36
Quote by Slurgi
To know jazz, you have to listen to jazz, period. Perhaps take some break time between your playing periods and just listen to jazz music. It'll give your fingers a rest and expose you to new melodic, harmonious, and rhythmic ideas. One of the most important things we can do as musicians I think is listen to music. Memorize the flow of your favorite songs, listen to a good variety, etc.


Exactly.

I'd spend the bulk of this time just listening and transcribing. There's more to playing guitar than playing guitar, if you get my drift.
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
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#37
Instead of giving up your social life and retreating into your guitar induced haze, go try and find yourself one good jam buddy.
It will work miracles, I tell ya.
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#38
Quote by psychodelia
Alright, a fifteen hour practice routine.... I'm pretty sure Cor wouldn't recommend this.

But since he's not here, fifteen hours. How much time will you be putting in for breaks?

And if you aren't already, consider dedicating some of that time to exercise. It'll help you to stay healthy.

You're right, I wouldn't. 3-5 hours, tops until you know wtf you're doing. You can work up to 8 if you're crazy. Anything past that is bad for you. Anything past what you're actually capable of is counter-developmental... seriously, 2 hours a day is perfect for most people who don't have a professional routine, and those who do tend to limit it to about 3 hours a day. It's hard to concentrate and actually learn anything useful past that -- and those 3 hours include break times.

Ed: I also want to comment on the "not stressing muscles." It's true, you can build muscular endurance for 15 hours of play. I've been in concerts, recently in fact, where I've been playing for roughly that long, most of it backstage prep time. In that, I count a large number of 10-15 minute breaks, every hour, 2 hour long 'lunch' breaks, and the two hours I was alternately on and off stage. With proper technique -- note the emphasis on proper -- you probably won't hurt yourself. But you also won't get as much out of it as you think you do. Most of that was getting multiple groups, who already knew their ****, to work on performing together, and fine tune the performance -- not developmental. 90% of developmental practice is mental, not physical, and the brain gets tired fast when you're really practicing. My normal solo-concert length? An hour... I'm burnt afterwards. Length of concerts where I'm conducting? 2-4 hours. After the longer ones, once I relax, I sleep for about three times that long. Practice sessions with the orchestra can sometimes run all day -- I go back into my office and sleep afterwards, almost always. Music is mentally exhausting, there's no getting around that. Good focused practice is mentally challenging, 90% of it is mental. Performance is exhausting because it's such a huge change in emotional states the entire time (especially solo... when you're the /only/ person on stage, it's like a roller-coaster of "****, SWEET, oh... god, wow, at least I got through that, YES. ok..." and finally "I could have done better.") I'm sure I missed some. The point, however, is that if you can go for 15 hours, you're either not focused on your practice, or your brain is so far shut down that what you practice will be detrimental. Muscle fatigue is hard enough to notice, and it will be present at first in times you go that long -- mental fatigue is even worse.

BTW red; I read an interesting article on muscle development, I'll see if I can find it online for you, talking about most muscle building immediately after a work out is actually water collecting in the muscle to repair the damage, and not actual growth.
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#39
take 10 minutes break every after hour you have done

and you don't have to go to a music school to learn all that stuff
#40
I just hope you aren't playing that much because you think you have to to get into berklee... I got accepted to berklee and I barely play even an hour most days, if that... if you're just doin it for yourself, though, more power to ya.
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