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brentondig
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#1
True Sabbath fans chill here, and discuss various Sabbath topics, such as Ozzy vs. Dio, Iommi, whatever.

Enjoy talking about the Blackest of Sabbath.
danzig-_-
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#2
umm i dont know what to say in here but.....
i think ozzy is a way better singer.....TRUE black sabbath
discuss?
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brentondig
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#3
I definitely agree. I think he's better because he was the first, more like the one and only, because the whole band sounded different with Dio, musically.
MusicHead32
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#4
ozzy>dio
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rx_eb
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#6
Quote by Inahrima
Doesn't black sabbath belong in the metal forum? Iron maidens there. Remove this and repost it there.


Black Sabbath is CR, mthrfckr.
Metal is a genre and CR is a time era. You see, Sabbaths played metal and belongs to the CR era...

The reason why Iron Maiden isn't considered CR because they don't deserve to. end of story
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TheUltimateSin
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#7
Quote by rx_eb
The reason why Iron Maiden isn't considered CR because they don't deserve to. end of story


[/narrow-mindedness]



Actually, it's because Iron Maiden was part of a musical movement most commenly referred to as the "NWOBHM", or "New Wave of British Heavy Metal".

@ threadstarter:
Quote by brentondig
such as Ozzy vs. Dio


Saying this is the #1 way to get your thread closed, #2 being not using the search function and making a thread that has been made 345814519855 times.
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#8
Quote by TheUltimateSin


[/narrow-mindedness]



Actually, it's because Iron Maiden was part of a musical movement most commenly referred to as the "NWOBHM", or "New Wave of British Heavy Metal".


shush

and actually that isn't narrow-mindedness
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NGD1313
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#9
Ozzy w/ Sabbath > Dio w/ Sabbath

Ozzy (solo) > Dio (band)

Ozzy (now) > Dio (now)

/debate
Danne55
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#10
Quote by TheUltimateSin
Saying this is the #1 way to get your thread closed, #2 being not using the search function and making a thread that has been made 345814519855 times.




I've think it has been done more than 345814519855 times
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chylde_of_fire
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#11
Quote by rx_eb
Black Sabbath is CR, mthrfckr.
Metal is a genre and CR is a time era. You see, Sabbaths played metal and belongs to the CR era...

Judas Preist, Motorhead, Venom, Pentagram, Witchfinder General plus many more are all metal bands that were formed/released most of their classic material within the 'pre - 1984' era that defines classic rock on this forum. Yet they are unquestionabley Metal, not Classic Rock. The same applies for Sabbath. They never were, are, or will be anything but metal.

Plus the thread in the metal forum has more replies. Go figure.
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Last edited by chylde_of_fire at Aug 19, 2006,
rx_eb
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#12
Quote by chylde_of_fire
Judas Preist, Motorhead, Venom, Pentagram, Saint Vitus, Witchfinder General plus many more are all metal bands that were formed/released most of their classic material within the 'pre - 1984' era that defines classic rock on this forum. Yet they are unquestionabley Metal, not Classic Rock. The same applies for Sabbath. They never were, are, or will be anything but metal.


no it doesn't
go ask a mod
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chylde_of_fire
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#13
Quote by rx_eb
no it doesn't
go ask a mod

So what exactly is it that makes Black Sabbath classic rock and other 70s metal bands not?
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bodyheatseeker
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#14
well Tony Iommi always said he thought Sabbath were heavy rock. I think you could have them in either forum really, they were the grandaddies of metal yet still around at the right time for you to call them classic rock.
As for Iron Maiden and Motorhead ect I always considered them a bit of a grey area but they were heavy when they started and their roots were always hard rock and such while Sabbath had sort of bluesy roots so I think thats the main difference
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rx_eb
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#15
Quote by chylde_of_fire
So what exactly is it that makes Black Sabbath classic rock and other 70s metal bands not?


well maybe because they're considered one of the godfathers of heavy metal. and don't forget that they debuted in the 60s and played blues rock, hard rock as well as jazz before they moved into Heavy Metal and pioneered the genre.

Those bands you've just listed earlier are indeed Black Sabbath's contemporaries but I think you just can't categorize them into the same class with Sabbath. Black Sabbath was and is always in higher class (in my opinion of course) and only bands like Led Zeppelin or Deep Purple, Uriah Heep, Scorpions and maybe Judas Priest or Wishbone Ash can be in.
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chylde_of_fire
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#16
Quote by bodyheatseeker
well Tony Iommi always said he thought Sabbath were heavy rock. I think you could have them in either forum really, they were the grandaddies of metal yet still around at the right time for you to call them classic rock.

Iommi would have said they were heavy rock as before Sabbath metal did not exist, and therefore the genre didn't have a concrete name as such (if that makes any sense), where as now, in retrospect, we can say that they are a metal band, specificaly Doom metal.

Quote by rx_eb
well maybe because they're considered one of the godfathers of heavy metal. and don't forget that they debuted in the 60s and played blues rock, hard rock as well as jazz before they moved into Heavy Metal and pioneered the genre.

I am aware that Sabbath started of in this way, back when they were known as Earth and Polka Tulk. That does not, however, detract from the fact that their self titled album was metal. Bluesy metal, but still metal.
There are many other bands that started off playing another type of music before becoming metal, for example Napalm Death's early demos were hardcore/crust punk, but by the time they put out their first full-length 'Scum', they had morphed into a fully-fledged Grind band.
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Last edited by chylde_of_fire at Aug 19, 2006,
bodyheatseeker
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#17
Quote by chylde_of_fire
Iommi would have said they were heavy rock as before Sabbath metal did not exist, and therefore the genre didn't have a concrete name as such (if that makes any sense)



True and you do make a good point it's just in a recent interview with Iommi he said he never saw Sabbath as metal even now he calls them hard rock
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BlueOyster23
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#18
I think UG needs to decide where bands like Black Sabbath belong in the forums.
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BlueOyster23
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#20
I disagree, I find that Black Sabbath was/is defienately hard rock, of the classic sort, due to not only the massive amount of blues styling, but other stylings to. Like "Changes" isn't a metal ballad, it's something else. "Never Say Die" and "Supernaut" seem to experiment elsewhere than metal, as many classic rock bands experimented with their sound.
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Ziggy193
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#21
Sabbath was really both hard rock and heavy metal. They did originate the metal formula, but their music is a bit more blues-based than most metal bands. It's the same way with AC/DC; everyone always calls them metal, but they're really more hard rock (hell, Angus was even offended when people called them metal).

On a side note, I'm kind of new to Black Sabbath, and I do own Paranoid and Black Sabbath (the album), and I'm wondering which album to get next. So...can anyone help? (And don't say Master Of Reality, because I already know I need to get that one.)
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chylde_of_fire
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#23
Any of the first 6 albums, Heaven and Hell is essential, also try Mob rules, Born Again, Eternal Idol and Headless Cross for a good overview of post - Ozzy Sabbath.
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TheUltimateSin
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#24
Quote by Ziggy193
Sabbath was really both hard rock and heavy metal. They did originate the metal formula, but their music is a bit more blues-based than most metal bands. It's the same way with AC/DC; everyone always calls them metal, but they're really more hard rock (hell, Angus was even offended when people called them metal)


I've never heard anyone call Ac/Dc metal. I would have killed them by now

Quote by rx_eb
and actually that isn't narrow-mindedness


Oh?

Quote by rx_eb
The reason why Iron Maiden isn't considered CR because they don't deserve to


The narrow-mindedness-o-meter nearly broke after taking a reading off of that

But, not to stray from the object, Master of Reality is one of my favorite albums. One of the few albums I can stand to hear from front to back.
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Ziggy193
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#25
Quote by TheUltimateSin
I've never heard anyone call Ac/Dc metal. I would have killed them by now


Well, for example, at the music store at the mall where I live, they have AC/DC in the metal section. And also, most music magazines (namely, the stupid ones that praise Green Day incessantly) call AC/DC metal. And while I do disagree with that, AC/DC did undoubtedly influence the metal sound from the 80's. But they, themselves, are not metal. The closest they came to metal was probably Whole Lotta Rosie, and that's still not even close.
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rx_eb
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#26
Quote by TheUltimateSin
The narrow-mindedness-o-meter nearly broke after taking a reading off of that


oh no that's just the opinion was being narrow-minded not me not me

Quote by Inahrima
^ Since deciding a genre based solely on time period alone seems extremly stupid, i'd say Black Sabbath belongs in the Metal Forum.


well please just shut up about it. enough discussions already

why can we just let Black Sabbath's threads be posted in both metal AND CR? e.g Just like SRV and Eric Clapton's cases (both here and the blues forum) or MC5 (well they're proto-punk but still both here and punk forum)

just so this doesn't go off the topic
first 5 Sabbath's albums are their best. i never really liked Heaven and Hell (i prefered Dio's work with Blackmore than with Iommi)
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TheUltimateSin
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#27
Quote by Ziggy193
Well, for example, at the music store at the mall where I live, they have AC/DC in the metal section. And also, most music magazines (namely, the stupid ones that praise Green Day incessantly) call AC/DC metal. And while I do disagree with that, AC/DC did undoubtedly influence the metal sound from the 80's. But they, themselves, are not metal. The closest they came to metal was probably Whole Lotta Rosie, and that's still not even close.



Wait.....I take back what I said....there are ignorant people, a lot of which I've seen on this site alone, who have this notion that Ac/Dc are Hair Metal. I remember blowing a circut at the few who mentioned them in that context. Ac/Dc are FAR from hair metal. They neither sound nor look like what a Hair Metal band should. NITRO, or Twisted Sister, for example, are Hair Metal.

Hair Metal = Big poofy hair, tight leather pants, and guitar masturbation.

And on the Black Sabbath theory: They are both Classic Rock and Metal. Simple as that. They played Metal(at the time what constituted as metal) during the Classic Rock era. It's not that difficult to understand. What's the problem?
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Last edited by TheUltimateSin at Aug 19, 2006,
Ziggy193
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#28
Quote by TheUltimateSin
And on the Black Sabbath theory: They are both Classic Rock and Metal. Simple as that. They played Metal(at the time what constituted as metal) during the Classic Rock era. It's not that difficult to understand. What's the problem?


I think the problem is that people are stupid. Yeah, that's it...people are stupid.
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rx_eb
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#29
Quote by Ziggy193
I think the problem is that people are stupid. Yeah, that's it...people are stupid.




but hey you misspelt "executed" in your sig
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Ziggy193
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#30
Quote by rx_eb


but hey you misspelt "executed" in your sig


Well my God, I did...I must have typed it too fast. Whatever, I'm gonna change that thing anyway, who cares.

An oh yeah, you misspelled "misspelled", ironically. But all spelling errors aside, a lot of people still maintain the title of "stupid", mostly the people who constantly argue over whether Sabbath and AC/DC are CR or Metal. Sabbth are both. AC/DC are CR. There you go. Get used to it.
"Let there be light...sound...drums...guitar...LET THERE BE ROCK!" - Let There Be Rock, AC/DC
Last edited by Ziggy193 at Aug 19, 2006,
rx_eb
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#31
Quote by Ziggy193
Well my God, I did...I must have typed it too fast. Whatever, I'm gonna change that thing anyway, who cares.

An oh yeah, you misspelled "misspelled", ironically.


no actually it was right

either mispelt or mispelled

it's ironic that you said people are stupid while you yourself misspells words


....just jk a few spelling mistakes won't hurt no one
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Last edited by rx_eb at Aug 19, 2006,
TheUltimateSin
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#32
Quote by Ziggy193
Well my God, I did...I must have typed it too fast. Whatever, I'm gonna change that thing anyway, who cares.

An oh yeah, you misspelled "misspelled", ironically. But all spelling errors aside, a lot of people still maintain the title of "stupid", mostly the people who constantly argue over whether Sabbath and AC/DC are CR or Metal. They're both. Get used to it.



Er...that was all good and all up until you included Ac/Dc in the "they are both" part.
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Ziggy193
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#33
Quote by TheUltimateSin
Er...that was all good and all up until you included Ac/Dc in the "they are both" part.


Oh, I must not have been thinking right there. I was mostly talking about Sabbath during that, so I guess I just forgot. Whatever, I can go back and change it.

EDIT: There, thy post hath been edited by The Ziggy.
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kshelt76
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#36
AC/DC is heavy metal, which is different from metal. Black Sabbath is metal. AC/DC couldn't have pulled off some of Sabbath's material, and I don't think Sabbath could play AC/DC material. Two different sounds. But both get included into classic rock because they not only fell in the certain time period, but more importantly, their music transcends the time they were famous during and has influenced numerous bands and musical styles that came after them.
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VANHALENGUITAR
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#37
i think your in the wrong forum too but black sabbath is way overrated
kshelt76
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#38
Quote by VANHALENGUITAR
i think your in the wrong forum too but black sabbath is way overrated



Let me put this out there, I don't like Black Sabbath. I've never cared much for their music(not a big metal fan) and I doubt I ever will. But to say that they're overrated is just ignorant. I'm sorry, but it is. I see by your name that you're a VH fan. Without Sabbath there wouldn't have been an AC/DC, Van Halen, and any other hard rock/heavy metal band. Sabbath helped to pioneer hard rock and for that reason, even though I don't like their music, I owe them a tremendous amount of respect.
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rx_eb
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#39
Quote by kshelt76
heavy metal, which is different from metal.



Heavy Metal is not like Nu Metal

Heavy Metal is subgenre of Metal and AC/DC are hard rock. I don't think they have anything to do with Metal
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Ziggy193
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#40
Quote by kshelt76
AC/DC is heavy metal, which is different from metal.


No. AC/DC was never, ever heavy metal, and they never will be. Heavy metal is Metallica, stuff like that. But AC/DC is, always has been, and always will be, hard rock.

Quote by kshelt76
Without Sabbath there wouldn't have been an AC/DC, Van Halen, and any other hard rock/heavy metal band. Sabbath helped to pioneer hard rock and for that reason, even though I don't like their music, I owe them a tremendous amount of respect.


That's funny, because as I recall, AC/DC's influences included Chuck Berry, The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds, The Beatles, The Who...NOT Black Sabbath.

Christ, this is almost as bad as the people in the 70's who called AC/DC punk rock. At least know what you're talking about before you say something.
"Let there be light...sound...drums...guitar...LET THERE BE ROCK!" - Let There Be Rock, AC/DC