#1
The Problem With Mainstream Rock Today in my Opinion.
The Wisdom of Ranger01

Bands don?t have it easy.

I don?t know why people think all bands that are signed to major labels are making allot of money and do nothing for it. (I do hate most music but I respect the musicians for what they go through. except i have a personal problem with FOB)

The Figures (how it works when you get signed)
(excerpt from http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/problemwithmusic.html )

"Advance: $250,000
Manager's cut: $37,500
Legal fees: $10,000
Recording Budget: $150,000
Producer's advance: $50,000
Studio fee: $52,500
Drum, Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $3,000
Recording tape: $8,000
Equipment rental: $5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $10,000
Catering: $3,000
Mastering: $10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc expenses: $2,000

Video budget: $30,000
Cameras: $8,000
Crew: $5,000
Processing and transfers: $3,000
Offline: $2,000
Online editing: $3,000
Catering: $1,000
Stage and construction: $3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $2,000
Director's fee: $3,000

Album Artwork: $5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $2,000

Band fund: $15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $5,000
New fancy professional guitars (2): $3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs (2): $4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $500
Big blowout party for their friends: $500

Tour expense (5 weeks): $50,875
Bus: $25,000
Crew (3): $7,500
Food and per diems: $7,875
Fuel: $3,000
Consumable supplies: $3,500
Wardrobe: $1,000
Promotion: $3,000

Tour gross income: $50,000
Agent s cut: $7,500
Manager's cut: $7,500

Merchandising advance: $20,000
Manager's cut: $3,000
Lawyer's fee: $1,000

Publishing advance: $20,000
Manager's cut: $3,000
Lawyer's fee: $1,000

Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 = $3,000,000 gross retail revenue Royalty (13% of 90% of retail): $351,000
Less advance: $250,000
Producer's points: (3% less $50,000 advance) $40,000
Promotional budget: $25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $50,000
Net royalty: (-$14,000)

Record company income:
Record wholesale price $6.50 x 250,000 = $1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $351,000
Deficit from royalties: $14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution @ $2.20 per record: $550,000
Gross profit: $710,000

The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.

Record company: $710,000
Producer: $90,000
Manager: $51,000
Studio: $52,500
Previous label: $50,000
Agent: $7,500
Lawyer: $12,000
Band member net income each: $4,031.25"

If you think all indi labels are safe read this!
http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/howthegameworks.html
A lot of indi labels are dummy labels for their parent major labels, or they are small labels with indi cred that were bought by big labels.

Why bands sell out and don?t Progress.

Allot of mainstream bands now days are FORCED to play the music they play. A record label picks them up because they see potential in them. Record companies will have a band sign a letter of intent a "deal memo" (note: not a contract yet) with a label so that the band and label can decide on a contract.
Once this agreement (it can be written on a napkin it is still a legal binding document) The band now cannot do anything unless the label approves. The company will draw up a contract (most likely to something purely beneficial to the label, including what kind of music they play) if the band decides not to sign, all the label has to do is wait, the band can either break up, remain in holding for an indefinite amount of time, or if the label decides they will they can let the band out of contract (very rare, they legally don?t have to so why would they.)

The band most likely will sign and make the music they are told to make. If they progress from that point, but are still selling massive amounts of records, they most likely will be told to keep making the simple and/or ****ty music that makes the label so much money.

Some bands have no choice but to sell out.

Why the music is watered down and simple.

It is hard to be a successful band for 2-4 years much less decades (take how Green Day was picked up and then suddenly dropped by people), these bands are under a crunch to get their stuff out and get on tour because if they are in the studio for a year and a half and the label isn?t making any money, the label might just decide to give them the boot in exchange for a new band that doesn?t care about sound, and that just wants to get out there and tour. this has been going on for years take the lyrics from Have a Cigar by Pink Floyd:


"Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar.
You're gonna go far, fly high,
You're never gonna die, you're gonna make it if you try;they're gonna love you.
Well I've always had a deep respect, and I mean that most sincerely.
The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think.
Oh by the way, which one's Pink?
And did we tell you the name of the game, boy
we call it Riding the Gravy Train.
We're just knocked out.
We heard about the sell out.
You gotta get an album out,
You owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.
Everybody else is just green, have you seen the chart?
It's a helluva start, it could be made into a monster
if we all pull together as a team.
And did we tell you the name of the game, boy
we call it Riding the Gravy Train."


The problem today is that the internet amongst other things is that it increases the chances for a label to find a suitable replacement for a band that?s 3 years old that wants to make an epic like Dark Side Of The Moon, Labels don?t care about an album that MIGHT make money with a new, more complex sound, they want an album that WILL make money albeit with simple music and simple lyrics. The record execs don?t care they don?t listen to the music, they don?t even know the bands in most cases:

"Well I've always had a deep respect, and I mean that most sincerely.
The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think.
Oh by the way, which one's Pink?"

Another reason that bands like Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd were able to take there time "back then" and make good main stream music was because the popular music was complex, the sixties and seventies was a time for free thinking, and intellectual progressive thought. The main populous wanted to learn and wanted to listen to intellectual, thought provoking music, they had the patience to listen over and over again to get a message, and try to find meaning, and would wait 1-3 years for a new album.
Now days the main stream populous has grown up with the internet and can get answers on demand, meaning they don?t want/ have the patience to take their time and rifle through the layers to find meaning, they want to get it straight forward and up front, and NOW.

The music industry has found this through the success of "pop metal" (poison, Motley Crue, etc..) and later in Pop Punk (Green Day, Blink 182). (Grunge was mostly one of the exceptions to this as they had views expressed them and are hailed for it. why is this you ask, because they use the old way of writing, by using the layers and complexities of the lyrics and music to add "subliminal" thought and ideas. )

Also another problem is that because of the net, fast shipping on magazines, papers, etc., and TV being so wide spread and diverse, Fads move much faster (months as opposed to a year or two).

If you want to Complain about music today complain about how TV is so wide spread and almost everyone has a computer with the internet.

The Future

I have real hope for new music because some bands, a good example being Wolfmother, are taking us back to how songs were written back in the days that all of us so love.
'11 Gibson LP Jr.
'07 Gretsch 5120
'69 Tele
'10 Godin 5th Ave. Kingpin
'03 Blueridge Dreadnought
'02 Custom Martin D-28
Premier Twin-8
Fender Hot Rod Dlx
Boss SD-1
Last edited by Ranger01 at Aug 21, 2006,
#2
I blame hip-hop
'08 Gretsch White Falcon
'98 Fender USA Deluxe Tele
'79 Greco Les Paul Standard
Airline Stratotone Crafter GAE8

A bunch of funky pedals

Handwired 50 Watt Plexi Lead Clone w/ Orange 4x12
#3
Ya, this mostly deals with rock music.
'11 Gibson LP Jr.
'07 Gretsch 5120
'69 Tele
'10 Godin 5th Ave. Kingpin
'03 Blueridge Dreadnought
'02 Custom Martin D-28
Premier Twin-8
Fender Hot Rod Dlx
Boss SD-1
#5
umm...good?
Originally Posted by evening_crow
Quoting yourself is cool.


WARNING: I kill threads.
#6
i meant i blame hip-hop for what's happening to rock because the record companies want hip-hop because it makes them more money so the rappers are all get awesome deals and the rockers are getting screwed over.
'08 Gretsch White Falcon
'98 Fender USA Deluxe Tele
'79 Greco Les Paul Standard
Airline Stratotone Crafter GAE8

A bunch of funky pedals

Handwired 50 Watt Plexi Lead Clone w/ Orange 4x12
#8
oh, ok


This took me an hour or 2 (total time ive been posting in the Mainstream music Thread. https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=418228&page=1&pp=20 )

But writing it probly took half an hour including editing.
'11 Gibson LP Jr.
'07 Gretsch 5120
'69 Tele
'10 Godin 5th Ave. Kingpin
'03 Blueridge Dreadnought
'02 Custom Martin D-28
Premier Twin-8
Fender Hot Rod Dlx
Boss SD-1
Last edited by Ranger01 at Aug 21, 2006,
#9
should be a guest colume
Quote by AgentWiggles
Thanks, douche.


Quote by SlayingDragons
Dude...



Gear:
Ibanez SZ 520QM
Ibanez RG 450DXB
Fender Big Apple Stratocaster
Pod XT Live
Peavey XXX Half Stack
Peavey Bandit 112
and a soul of Rock n' Roll
#10
yeah u shud submit this in a column or something
'08 Gretsch White Falcon
'98 Fender USA Deluxe Tele
'79 Greco Les Paul Standard
Airline Stratotone Crafter GAE8

A bunch of funky pedals

Handwired 50 Watt Plexi Lead Clone w/ Orange 4x12
#11
cool, i cant believe all those fees, thanks for bringing this to most of ours attention
Do you like it
HARDER or Faster

PRESIDENT OF THE SIXPOUNDER WHEN I POUND HER
CLUB
#12
Quote by druz15_UG
yeah u shud submit this in a column or something


really, you think so?
'11 Gibson LP Jr.
'07 Gretsch 5120
'69 Tele
'10 Godin 5th Ave. Kingpin
'03 Blueridge Dreadnought
'02 Custom Martin D-28
Premier Twin-8
Fender Hot Rod Dlx
Boss SD-1
#15
Quote by druz15_UG
I blame hip-hop

*nevermind, you clarified your meaning*
#16
Ok, I think I will.

for the body, do i submit it like a thread?
'11 Gibson LP Jr.
'07 Gretsch 5120
'69 Tele
'10 Godin 5th Ave. Kingpin
'03 Blueridge Dreadnought
'02 Custom Martin D-28
Premier Twin-8
Fender Hot Rod Dlx
Boss SD-1
#17
... great research but was it really needed? we all know that the music industry will royally **** you over and hold your hemroid cream for ransome while you unbearibly squirm around in freakish anull pain annnd the end result is ****ty music from poor tortured assholes.... wolfmother blew the only hope i have for any sort of good music any more is in a few forms of metal that seem to still understand what a solo is and it doesent remind me of gay porn watching their music videos
#18
that's impressive, I can tell you've done your research. Record labels, and clear radio dictates what is trendy and its true that sometimes bands don't have a choice to sell out. But I think some bands like green day and metallica have sold out.
#19
Quote by Ranger01
Ok, I think I will.

for the body, do i submit it like a thread?



Not shure, mabey PM a mod
Do you like it
HARDER or Faster

PRESIDENT OF THE SIXPOUNDER WHEN I POUND HER
CLUB
#20
True, Green Day did sell out, but they dont fit the idea because they progressed from what they were back in dookie days. The music did get more complex, has deeper meanings that they used to, and has more complex (altho not even close to anything old bands have done) solos.


Should i submit it in General Music or Junkyard?

No mods are on (that I can Tell) to PM.
'11 Gibson LP Jr.
'07 Gretsch 5120
'69 Tele
'10 Godin 5th Ave. Kingpin
'03 Blueridge Dreadnought
'02 Custom Martin D-28
Premier Twin-8
Fender Hot Rod Dlx
Boss SD-1
Last edited by Ranger01 at Aug 21, 2006,
#21
Sry bout the double post, this is my final draft.

What?s Behind Mainstream Rocks Problems?
The Wisdom of Ranger01

Bands don?t have it easy.

Getting signed doesn?t mean you make millions of dollars. I don?t know why so many people think when a band gets signed to a major label they are making a lot of money and are doing nothing for it, living the so-called "easy life". (I do dislike most mainstream music today but I respect the musicians for what they go through.)Bands today make less money when being signed to a label than they could working at a McDonalds.

The Figures (how it works when you get signed)
(Excerpt from http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/problemwithmusic.html )

"Advance: $250,000
Manager's cut: $37,500
Legal fees: $10,000
Recording Budget: $150,000
Producer's advance: $50,000
Studio fee: $52,500
Drum, Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $3,000
Recording tape: $8,000
Equipment rental: $5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $10,000
Catering: $3,000
Mastering: $10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc expenses: $2,000

Video budget: $30,000
Cameras: $8,000
Crew: $5,000
Processing and transfers: $3,000
Offline: $2,000
Online editing: $3,000
Catering: $1,000
Stage and construction: $3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $2,000
Director's fee: $3,000

Album Artwork: $5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $2,000

Band fund: $15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $5,000
New fancy professional guitars (2): $3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs (2): $4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $500
Big blowout party for their friends: $500

Tour expense (5 weeks): $50,875
Bus: $25,000
Crew (3): $7,500
Food and per diems: $7,875
Fuel: $3,000
Consumable supplies: $3,500
Wardrobe: $1,000
Promotion: $3,000

Tour gross income: $50,000
Agent s cut: $7,500
Manager's cut: $7,500

Merchandising advance: $20,000
Manager's cut: $3,000
Lawyer's fee: $1,000

Publishing advance: $20,000
Manager's cut: $3,000
Lawyer's fee: $1,000

Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 = $3,000,000 gross retail revenue Royalty (13% of 90% of retail): $351,000
Less advance: $250,000
Producer's points: (3% less $50,000 advance) $40,000
Promotional budget: $25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $50,000
Net royalty: (-$14,000)

Record company income:
Record wholesale price $6.50 x 250,000 = $1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $351,000
Deficit from royalties: $14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution @ $2.20 per record: $550,000
Gross profit: $710,000

The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.

Record company: $710,000
Producer: $90,000
Manager: $51,000
Studio: $52,500
Previous label: $50,000
Agent: $7,500
Lawyer: $12,000
Band member net income each: $4,031.25"

And for those of you who think all indi labels are safe read this!
(http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/howthegameworks.html)
A lot of indi labels are created by major labels, or they are actual indi labels with street credibility that were bought by big labels so they could exploit the credibility of not being a Major Label. They will agree to go with Indi Label X not knowing that it is owned by Major Label Y and after a release of their first album will be transferred to Major Label Y, and will be stuck under the rules of Major Label Y.

Why bands sell out and don?t Progress.

A lot of mainstream bands now days are FORCED to play the music they play. A record label picks a band up because they see potential in them. Record companies will have a band sign a letter of intent a "deal memo" (note: not a contract yet) with a label so that the band and label can decide on a contract.
Once this agreement is signed (it can be written on a napkin it is still a legal binding document) the band now cannot do anything unless the label approves. The company will draw up a contract (which is likely to be something purely beneficial to the label, including what kind of music the band plays). If the band decides not to sign, all the label has to do is wait, the band can either break up, remain in holding for an indefinite amount of time, or if the label decides, they can let the band out of contract this is very rare, and they legally don?t have to so why would they take this option?

The band will most likely sign and make the music they are told to make. If they progress from that point, but are still selling massive amounts of records, they most likely will be told to keep making the simple and/or ****ty music that makes the label so much money.

Some bands have no choice but to sell out.

Why the music is watered down and simple.

It is hard to be a successful band steadily for 2-4 years much less decades for example Green Day keeps being picked up and then suddenly dropped by people. These bands are under a crunch to get their stuff out and get on tour because if they are in the studio for a year and a half and the label isn?t making any money, the label may decide to give them the boot in exchange for a new band that doesn?t care about sound, and that just wants to get out there and tour. This has been going on for years take the lyrics from Have a Cigar by Pink Floyd:


"Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar.
You're gonna go far, fly high,
You're never gonna die, you're gonna make it if you try;they're gonna love you.
Well I've always had a deep respect, and I mean that most sincerely.
The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think.
Oh by the way, which one's Pink?
And did we tell you the name of the game, boy
we call it Riding the Gravy Train.
We're just knocked out.
We heard about the sell out.
You gotta get an album out,
You owe it to the people. We're so happy we can hardly count.
Everybody else is just green, have you seen the chart?
It's a helluva start, it could be made into a monster
if we all pull together as a team.
And did we tell you the name of the game, boy
we call it Riding the Gravy Train."


The problem today is that the internet amongst other things is that it increases the chances for a label to find a suitable replacement for a band that?s 3 years old that wants to make an epic like Dark Side Of The Moon, Labels don?t care about an album that MIGHT make money with a new, more complex sound, they want an album that WILL make money albeit with simple music and simple lyrics. The record execs don?t care they don?t listen to the music, they don?t even know the bands in most cases:

"Well I've always had a deep respect, and I mean that most sincerely.
The band is just fantastic, that is really what I think.
Oh by the way, which one's Pink?"

Another reason that bands like Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd were able to take there time "back then" and make good mainstream music was because the popular music was complex, the sixties and seventies was a time for free thinking, and intellectual progressive thought. The main populous wanted to learn and wanted to listen to intellectual, thought provoking music, they had the patience to listen over and over again to get a message, and try to find meaning, and would wait 1-3 years for a new album.
Now days the main stream populous has grown up with the internet and can get answers on demand, meaning they don?t want/ have the patience to take their time and rifle through the layers to find meaning, they want to get it straight forward and up front, and NOW.

The music industry has found this through the success of "pop metal" (Poison, Motley Crue, etc.) and later in Pop Punk (Green Day, Blink 182). Grunge was mostly one of the exceptions to this, as they had views, expressed them, and are hailed for it. Why is this you ask? Because they use the old way of writing, by using the layers and complexities of the lyrics and music to add "subliminal" thought and ideas.

Also another problem is that because of the Net, fast shipping on magazines, papers, etc., and TV being so wide spread and diverse, fads move much faster (6 months as opposed to a year or two).

If you want to complain about music today complain about how TV is so wide spread and almost everyone has a computer with the Internet.

The Future

I have real hope for new music because some bands, a good example being Wolfmother, are taking us back to how songs were written back in the days of Zeppelin, Sabbath, and Floyd and infuse it with the energy of modern mainstream rock music. If this music doesn't catch on we still have 500+ years of "good" music in reserve to listen to.
'11 Gibson LP Jr.
'07 Gretsch 5120
'69 Tele
'10 Godin 5th Ave. Kingpin
'03 Blueridge Dreadnought
'02 Custom Martin D-28
Premier Twin-8
Fender Hot Rod Dlx
Boss SD-1
Last edited by Ranger01 at Aug 22, 2006,
#23
Main Stream sucks anyway. Bands like Afi, Lost Prophets, and so on...Metal Owns