#1
Hey,

Im looking at amps and i have a couple ?'s. I really want an amp that will distort naturally and awesomely by cranking the volume.

First i was wondering what affect the rectifier has on an amp, and wheather or not it is important to have a tube rect. vs. s.s. when your trying to get the amp to distort.

Next, i was wondering if you can remove a power tube from an amp, and have it run on just the power tubes that are left.

Also, if you know of an amp that does naturally dist. and isnt crazy expensive (<1000) and lowish wattage (40 or less, unless you can remove power tubes like i mentioned above)

thanks
#2
The rectifier doenst affect the disortion. but at high vilume they can give a "sag" and are an old techinque and are often assosatied with vintage sounds. You cna remove power tubes, but noit jsut like that. Also how heavy will you go? I Think a Laney VC-15 would br samrt, easy to power distort at low volumes
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#3
If you want one that distorts naturally, look into one channel (like the Epi Jrs.) or vintage-style amps, such as the reissue Fender Bassman. Modern multi-channel amps are kind of resistant to that kind of breaking up (you'll still get much better tone at high volume, of course), but older amps thrived off of it.
Hi, I'm Peter
#5
Quote by Pieter-Jan
Zvex nano head! Or maybe a marshall MG, altough they aren't tube amps.



Out damn spot! Out, I say!
Hi, I'm Peter
#6
Quote by Pieter-Jan
Zvex nano head! Or maybe a marshall MG, altough they aren't tube amps.

Every thread I have clicked on I have seen you recommending MGs to people. Kindly stop. You clearly have a limted knowledge of amps so do not post.
#7
kk, I'll stop, I just went crazy with all the people wanting to buy ****ty MG amps just because they aren't expencive.

If you want tone, read on, if you don't stop.

Here's the deal:

ENGL screamer
Traynor YCV blue
Zvex Nano head with a good cabinet (orange cabinets) - not loud enough for anything exept home practice but killer tone! (I have one)

These amps offer alot of good tones and all have a killer distortion sound wich is what you wanted.
#8
Quote by Pieter-Jan
kk, I'll stop, I just went crazy with all the people wanting to buy ****ty MG amps just because they aren't expencive.

If you want tone, read on, if you don't stop.

Here's the deal:

ENGL screamer
Traynor YCV blue
Zvex Nano head with a good cabinet (orange cabinets) - not loud enough for anything exept home practice but killer tone! (I have one)

These amps offer alot of good tones and all have a killer distortion sound wich is what you wanted.

I've been really interested in the Nano amp. couple questions if you don't mind. Those tubes I noticed are not garden variety JAN's, where do you get replacements, and how long do they last? Second, I noticed he recommended a ground with an alligator clip. Is that coming off the cable, or is it meant to ground to some other surface? Third, how much did it cost you, and what kind of cab are you using?
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#10
Quote by frednation
First i was wondering what affect the rectifier has on an amp, and wheather or not it is important to have a tube rect. vs. s.s. when your trying to get the amp to distort.


All power amps, tube or solid state, have rectification. Most amps (even most tube amps) use solid state rectification, because transistors are faster than any tube and tend to give a much tighter sound. Most rock and metal you hear played with Mesa Rectifier (single, dual, triple) all use the transistor rectification over tube. Don't worry yourself about rectifiers. They shouldn't even be a concern to you.

Quote by frednation
Next, i was wondering if you can remove a power tube from an amp, and have it run on just the power tubes that are left.


Yes and no. Power tubes need to run in pairs. In some amps that run on 4 power tubes, you can sometimes pull a pair of tubes (usually the inner pair) and run the amp at half power. If your amp only has 2 tubes (like most smaller amps), this can't be done.
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#11
^ what crunch said. Nice description.

how much wattage do you need? i guess what I mean is, do you want to be able to get power tube (what you mean by "natural" distortion) distortion at home volumes? do you need it to be loud enough to gig?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#12
Hey Erock,

I've got the nano head for two weeks now. The tubes are meant to last forever (mister Z. Vex can be contacted at the forum www.zvex.com) but you can buy replacement tubes at his site, and the customer service is incredible! I don't really understand the thing with the aligator clip, I saw that too in the mike thompson movie, but my amp doesnt hum AT ALL, not even at highest volume, ... I use humbuckers, no single coils though. Currently I'm using the cabinet from my vox ad60vt amp, but it lacks alot in the low end, I'm thinking of buying a 2*12 greenback cabinet, probably an orange, I'll cost quite much but I'm not sure how much.
#13
Thanks for all of the help

I'd like for the amp to distort at band practice (over drums) and gigging volumes. Bedroom levels aren't as important.

Also, if you know of any amps that are good for the things that i was talking about above that are sold in guitar center (which is basically the only store i can try stuff around here with out having to drive too far) like fenders and voxs and crates etc. that be great, ive especially been wondering about the fenders; hot rods, blues deluxe reissues, bassman, and 65' deluxe reverb.

Thanks again
#14
I'm guessing you want between about 20 watts and 50. can you get traynors at GC?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#15
right now i have a 40 watt tube amp, and i usually only get it up to about halfway for practice, and a little more for gigs, depending on the situation, so juging by that, if i want to run it at full or near full volume for the full saturation of the tubes, id probably want a little less than 40, right?
#16
You could get an attenuator if your amp really is impossible to crank, altough some people say this looses some sound, I'm not one of them though.
#17
Quote by Pieter-Jan
Hey Erock,

I've got the nano head for two weeks now. The tubes are meant to last forever (mister Z. Vex can be contacted at the forum www.zvex.com) but you can buy replacement tubes at his site, and the customer service is incredible! I don't really understand the thing with the aligator clip, I saw that too in the mike thompson movie, but my amp doesnt hum AT ALL, not even at highest volume, ... I use humbuckers, no single coils though. Currently I'm using the cabinet from my vox ad60vt amp, but it lacks alot in the low end, I'm thinking of buying a 2*12 greenback cabinet, probably an orange, I'll cost quite much but I'm not sure how much.


thanks for that man.

frednation, like Pieter suggested, I use an attenuator to get my 100W head cranking the power section, and I think the tradeoff is well worth it too. As long as you aren't attenuating a huge amount, it doesn't lose much tone. I still get great tone out of my amp with the attentuator set at -8dB. I made some clips for the "clips thread" using my Framus 100W, and that was even using the attenuator at -12dB, and they still sounded decent. I never really touch it, so I forgot to turn it down for the clips. The clips are listed and labeled Framus clips at the bottom of my Dmusic Page if you want to check it out.

some good attenuators to check out are the Weber, and the THD hotplate, although it's a little pricey.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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Last edited by Erock503 at Aug 23, 2006,
#18
yeah, it mainly loses tone if you're really attenuating (like the -16db amount). if you have it up halfway at band practice, I guess attenuation might be a good idea. or else, as you say, get a lower wattage amp- but don't expect a 20 watter to be half as loud...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
Dave_Mc is correct. You only get a really noticeable change in tone when you over-attenuate. For home practice purpose, this can be inevitable. But at -4 and -8 dB settings, I would get great tone at reasonable volume. I used to even run my Hotplate at -4 dB at band practice so I could push the amp a bit harder. What little tone was 'sucked out' by the Hotplate was more than made up for by the extra drive from the amp.

But personally, if you want thick, natural amp distortion at reasonable volumes (ei - not needing to crank the amp), I'd suggest you look into Peavey XXX combos or a 5150/6505 combo. These amps will give you massive natural amp distortion at any volume. You don't need to crank them to get that sweet, sweet tube distortion.
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#20
Thanks for all of the help, but i think i miss led you. My amp is a marshall dsl 401. I've put it on full in hopes to get the clean channel to start really distorting. (btw, im not talking metal distortion, i mean like bluesbreakers with eric clapton, old fleetwood mac , etc. ) My marshall sounds good, but it actaully seems heavier at low volumes. its not that thick, full kinda sound. Would different tubes help? I think it has ECC83 pre and el84 power tubes. Anything on the fender amps. The fender blues deluxe reissue looks pretty good for that, and i could attenuate it like you guys were saying.
#21
^ your clean channel won't distort? i thought joel grieve said you could hardly stop the clean channel from distorting...

do you have the channel volume up as well as the master volume?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
The clean channel distorts, just not as much as i would think it would. (its about as heavy as about gain on 3 on the overdrive channell.) My friend has a mesa boogie rocket 440 and when he cranks his clean its way way heavier. That amps out of my range though.
#23
^ maybe your tubes are old, or you could maybe invest in earlier-breakup power tubes.

also, what tubes does your friend's amp have? your has el84's, if your friend's amp has different tubes, that could be it...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#24
If you're looking for light breakup on the clean channel, then the 5150 / 6505 combo may be a good choice. The amp techincally doesn't have a clean channel, only ryhthm and lead. The rhythm can get nice cleans, but very, VERY easily starts to break up when the gain is turned up even slightly. It has a dirty, naturally distorted tone on the ryhthm channel and will give you that dirt you're looking for at any volume. You shoudl really look into trying one out.
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#25
My friend has el84s too, ive played those 5150's, and i found them way too heavy for me, but i didn't mess with it too much, especially with the 1970's marshall jtm 45 calling for me right behind me. I dont think i could get one of those used that i could afford, and its too much power anyway, sweet though.
#27
Yes, EL34s break up a lot faster. I know you can interchange 6L6 and EL34 tubes in many amps, but not sure about EL34 / 84. And you would definately need to get the amp rebiased.
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#28
i don't think you can replace el84's with el34's, at least without some modding- the 84's are 9 pin (34's are 8 (octal) as far as I know), as far as I know. you can get THD yellowjackets to let you replace 34's with 84's, but I don't know if you can do it the other way round...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?