#1
I was just wondering if anyone had any pointers on what scales, chords, chord structures worked well for the more chaotic hardcore/mathcore bands like DEP, The Number Twelve and Circle Takes the Square use.
#2
Know how to play in three different types of time signatures: /4, /8 and /16. That being said, then learn how to play in odd signatures: 5/4, 7/4, 6/8, 7/8, 23/16, 7/16?and so on and so forth. Many tech metal bands, as well as bands such as the DEP use just powerchords, with the mixing in of diminished [power] chords?1 b5 8.

Seriously, there isn't any theory for specific genres of music. In my opinion, there's classical music theory, jazz music theory?and it could be argued that there is such thing as rock music theory, but I disagree. Everything is based off classical music theory?and since jazz is based off classical...well it's kinda logical. Rock is based on blues, which is based on jazz, which is based on classical. It's all a big circle. You don't need special theory for a specific genre of music. Get a big music theory book, and you're set for every kind of music you can think of.

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#3
Youve really got to be good in everything to play stuff like DEP. They are well versed in everything pretty much I find but you would need to know jazz definitely then just your general metal and hardcore stuff.. I even heard they roll 20 sided dice to come up with time signatures for new songs.
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#4
thanks for the advice, but can you tell me what scales are commonly used in mathcore/grincore or techdeath?

^ and actually im taking jazz band in school so hopefully that will help me a lot with the jazz influence thing a lot of matchore bands have going
#6
Quote by hippie_cune
what exactly is this.."mathcore" and how do i learn more?


It's like Technical Hardcore. Seems like the best way to go when it comes to Hardcore considering the genre seems polluted enough as it is. Like old DEP...that's good stuff right there.

And when I say polluted I mean it has just become a very commercial genre. I'm not a big hardcore fan, I listen to a lot more metal, but there are a couple bands that deserve attention, and many that just get a big ol' meh.

But back on topic, learning jazz and classical and doing your best to incorporate theory into the learning process will prepare you for anything. Get into progressive music as well, like Dream Theater/Liquid Tension Experiment, or Opeth, that's fun rock-styled music to play that can help with theory as well (when I say Rock I mean it as a very general term as compared to Classical and Jazz).
-Mike
#7
hmmm.. im sorry, but that doesnt really mean anything to me.

tehcnical hardcore? know whats that mean?

is mathcore like what zappa used sometimes.. where you find the "mathmatical properties" of each note or chord and then.. i dunno what to do after that.
#9
Quote by hippie_cune
hmmm.. im sorry, but that doesnt really mean anything to me.

tehcnical hardcore? know whats that mean?

is mathcore like what zappa used sometimes.. where you find the "mathmatical properties" of each note or chord and then.. i dunno what to do after that.


Do you know what hardcore is?
Quote by dudetheman
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#10
Holy twisted genres Batman!

Talk about a human's need to categorize everything. Techdeath?! MathCORE?! These sound like the videogames I could have played when I was younger.
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#11
someone should sig the part where he asked if what zappa played was mathcore. ^^
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#12
No they shouldn't.
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#13
Quote by nightwind
Holy twisted genres Batman!

Talk about a human's need to categorize everything. Techdeath?! MathCORE?! These sound like the videogames I could have played when I was younger.


What? If you don't understand the genres then that's your problem. You have a problem with organization? "human's need to categorize everything"...yeah I guess that is a big problem. Hell, let's get rid of names, those things are annoying. There's just so many of them, it's pointless.
-Mike
#14
Quote by BobFromReboot
No they shouldn't.


thanks.. im generally confused about this mathcore..

i can only assume that each note is looked at in its cps measurement, where middle A is 440 cps.. and that every A is going to be double or half of the cps of the A before.

but then im not sure what all you would want to do.. multilplication/division/add/subtract... im sure different applications give better results.

... and what would you do for a chord? each note has its own cps.

im a music education major, so its not like im retarded to theory. ive just never been taught anything about "math-rock" but i do think i have heard that zappa and cpt. beefheart used to use math to write some songs.. just for the hell of it.. cause they could.

if theres a site that anyone knows that could teach me the basics id offer many thanks. wikipedia doesnt count.
#15
*cough*meshuggah*cough
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#17
Mathrock bands use a lot of complex time signatures. I've never heard of any bands that calculate CPS into music...
And I'm left handed.
#18
Quote by HopePoisoned
What? If you don't understand the genres then that's your problem. You have a problem with organization? "human's need to categorize everything"...yeah I guess that is a big problem. Hell, let's get rid of names, those things are annoying. There's just so many of them, it's pointless.



Just pointing something out that was foreign to me. Second of all, I wasn't getting mad at you guys for having genres. Keep your catologue of them , I don't mind in the least. Finally, names have nothing to do with category.


For the man talking about math.... John Cage's (<3) first compositions were written using a now forgotten formula. This is least crazy of the things he has done. Look him up if you get the chance.
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Don't tell me what can be done, either.



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#19
Math(insert genre) is just extremely complex music, like Meshuggah, Dillinger Escape Plan, etc. Some would say that Rush started the math rock thing.
Quote by dudetheman
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#20
Well, if it's Slayer, then the chromatic scale should do you just fine
#21
Quote by mikeman
I thought mathcore was like dragon force? Or are they power metal?


They would be power metal. They really aren't all that complex, they just have very extreme tempos.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#22
Quote by cubedeathk
Youve really got to be good in everything to play stuff like DEP. They are well versed in everything pretty much I find but you would need to know jazz definitely then just your general metal and hardcore stuff.. I even heard they roll 20 sided dice to come up with time signatures for new songs.


Who is DEP? Does that stand for something? I don't think I've ever heard of them.
Can someone give me their website or something?
Ahhhhhh!
#23
i recommend pocket music theory published by hal leonard good luck bro
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#24
Quote by bass012
Who is DEP? Does that stand for something? I don't think I've ever heard of them.
Can someone give me their website or something?


The Dillinger Escape Plan. They're a very complex hardcore band. Google it.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#25
alright back to the threadstarters question. if you are just talking about plain old metalcore, the best thing you can do is listen to a lot of it, learn the natural minor scale well in many different positions on the neck, and begin constructing your own riffs. also, a lot of bands like to throw in the natural 7 and the b5 into the mix for a heavier/darker sound. after that, learn the diminished scale. i think the diminished scale sounds great in hardcore but i dont see it used that much.

for stuff like DEP and the #12 basically just learn jazz theory, then listen to them a lot to construct your own riffs using odd time sigs/scales. i think jazz is the key to these two bands. when i saw the #12 live their lead guitarist was playing standard jazz lines all through his soundcheck.
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