#1
Hey all,
Im trying to write a lesson about the harmonic and melodic minor scales, and somethings come across me which makes me wonder.

Now I understand the the Altered diminished scale is pretty much rubbish, however, when i look at the intervals, they dont seem to make much sense to me?

Ok, these are the intervals for it: 1 b2 #2 3 #4 #5 bb7 1

However, when you apply those to a major scale, to get the alt dim7 scale, (lets use B major), you get this:

B C D D# F G Ab B

But surely that cant be correct? Its not diatonic? (has a Natural D and a Sharp D).
Also, the second degree is used twice in the scale (b2 and #2).

Wouldnt it be more easier to use this?

 R  W  W  H  W  W  W   H
 B  C# D# E  F# G# A#  B  <-- B Major scale
 B  C  D Eb  F  G  Ab  B  <-- B Altered Diminished 7th scale

 |  |  |  |  |  |  |   |
 v  v  v  v  v  v  v   v
 1  b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 bb7 1  <-- Alt Dim 7 intervals


Or am i missing something really obvious?

Thanks in advance
Been away, am back
#2
You have pitches correct but the spelling is wrong... like I was saying to you yesterday I think it was, you're going to have some xs and bbs.

In the major scale, you have D functioning as a major third - so when you translate that into your alt° scale, you must write D functioning as a third, so it'd be D#.. but then what about the #2?

Like I said, each letter functions as some kind of scale degree... in this case C is functioning as a second and D as a third... so, if you have a #2... the letter you're using has to function as some kind of second.. C.

The correct spelling of the #2 is Cx. (C double sharp).

You know that #2 is the same as b3 and seems logical to call it a b3.. but you can't because there's already a 3 in the scale.. the 3 always takes presedence over a b3 - so when both are there the 3 becomes more important and you call the b3 a #2.

Now, you've spelt the third as Eb, but if you look at the B Major scale you see that E functions as a 4th, but D is functioning as some kind of third, so the third degree would be spelt D#... there's nothing wrong with the 1 - b2 - b3 - b4 - b5 - b6 - bb7 - 1 formula you came up with, except the spelling. The fourth notes away from the root note of the B has to function as some kind of third, in your spelling it's functioning as some kind of fourth... which makes the spelling incorrect.

The correct spelling is...

1 - b2 - #2 - 3 - #4 - #5 - bb7
B - C -  Cx - D# -E# - Fx - Ab.
(Someone might have to confirm/correct that)

It doesn't really matter how you spell it, aslong as each letter is functioning as the scale tone - otherwise it gets confusing, especially when you add chords.

Edit: I'd wait for Cas, Cor, Red, SD or someone like that to confirm/correct me before taking my word as gospel though.
Last edited by Johnljones7443 at Sep 4, 2006,