#1
which scales do you use to solo in Jazz?
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#3
Jazz uses almost every scale you can think of, but diatonic modes and melodic/harmonic minors are the ones that I find I use when doing jazz improv, with some chromatic notes added here and there.
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#4
Quote by acdc51502112
which scales do you use to solo in Jazz?




sigged. you're gonna have a lot of fun with jazz.
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Last edited by VR2005 at Sep 10, 2006,
#5
for starters,

Dorian for all m7 chords.

major bebop for all major chords.

mixolydian for all dominant chords.


Be able to play all diatonic arpeggios.
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#6
Make sure that you remember that what scheck006 said is really the basis for jazz so use these for improvising only in the beginning then move on to soloing on your own substitions and make sure you really know your arpeggios like he said but also learn what passing tones are and just try and get a general grasp of a good bit of the theory in jazz before just diving in. Also listen, listen, listen it's the greatest advantage you can have as a jazz musician and transcribe not only jazz guitar solos try piano solos and sax solos and then break them apart trying to understand all of what these guy where using over what chord. Make sure you start with the chord part of jazz and get used to comping before intially improvising. Also sorry for my comment before just remembered how it felt to start jazz intially.
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#7
Quote by VR2005


sigged. you're gonna have a lot of fun with jazz.

What the hell is so funny about that? He is just asking a question and you make fun of him! Of course, you already knew everything from the start

Quote by scheck006
for starters,

Dorian for all m7 chords.

major bebop for all major chords.

mixolydian for all dominant chords.

Those are some options. I'd say Lydian for all major chords and Lydian Dominant for dominant chords, though.
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#8
it wasn't a laugh at him it was more of a laugh of nostalgia and remembering when i had to start, almost like a chuckle in no way was i trying to offend him.
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#9
i jus use all the modes and play what i want to haha

either that or a pentatonic with a few notes added in for some nice spice and a hendrix vibe haha
#10
melodic minor,
All those major modes.
mixolydian b2b6

every scale you can think of
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#12
Don't dig this kid into a hole by telling him to play and learn all of these scales, yes you should learn them but learn to improvise with chord tones and passing tones and then add arps and scales very rarely. Scales are basically the most useless thing in jazz unless it's the symmetrical scales or the melodic minor scale and modes, for the rest all those scales are outlines of chords and arps are the same thing just with the chord tones and plus with arps you have more freedom to put whatever passing tones you want, don't think scalar all it is is a giant pitfall that leads to being stuck in the hole of scale playing.
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#13
where can you find these scales properly laid out
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#14
Dominant 7th-Mixolydian
Minor 7th- Dorian
Major 7th- Major/Ionian
Diminished- Diminished scale
minor 7 b5/ half diminished- I like to use Locrian 6

That should get you started. Also, try subsituting scales like, instead of Bb Mixolydian, use F dorian.
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Quote by VR2005
...Scales are basically the most useless thing in jazz...

#15
Quote by VR2005
Don't dig this kid into a hole by telling him to play and learn all of these scales, yes you should learn them but learn to improvise with chord tones and passing tones and then add arps and scales very rarely. Scales are basically the most useless thing in jazz unless it's the symmetrical scales or the melodic minor scale and modes, for the rest all those scales are outlines of chords and arps are the same thing just with the chord tones and plus with arps you have more freedom to put whatever passing tones you want, don't think scalar all it is is a giant pitfall that leads to being stuck in the hole of scale playing.


You couldn't be more wrong



I'm gonna sig that
Quote by krymson
I hope that we could get some real metal out there. I guess A7X a start...
But nu metal does have its moments like Slipknot Mushroomhead and Korn.

Quote by VR2005
...Scales are basically the most useless thing in jazz...

#16
wow, you are a dumbass, you go ahead and play anthology by Charlie Parker and use only scales to outline the chords have fun. I expect this to posted in this thread if you want to prove me wrong, and plus you can't be taken seriously since you like modest mouse. Plus you're givig a misconception as to what i said, if you read on a go on to say a few of the scales that you mentioned.

I'm also expecting you to explain why i'm wrong, go ahead give it a shot.
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Last edited by VR2005 at Sep 10, 2006,
#17
Quote by VR2005
wow, you are a dumbass, you go ahead and play anthology by Charlie Parker and use only scales to outline the chords have fun. I expect this to posted in this thread if you want to prove me wrong, and plus you can't be taken seriously since you like modest mouse. Plus you're givig a misconception as to what i said, if you read on a go on to say a few of the scales that you mentioned.

I'm also expecting you to explain why i'm wrong, go ahead give it a shot.



I'm pretty sure you use arpeggios' passing tones and scales.

An arpeggio with a few passing tones pretty much makes a scale too.
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#18
That's basically exactly what I said, I was just saying that having to think about each scale you can play over each chord when you're playing most jazz standards is going to be hell and using arps is even more useful because you have the feeling of less boundaries of where you can go with the imrpovisation and with the passing tones you can layout what the chord progression is through your improvisation. Scales have their place but out of all the genres of music I would have to say that jazz is the last place that I would use them, they're just feel too limited to what you can do and never really express what chord is being played that well, though they're good for dissonance like the symmetrical scales. A few non-symmetrical scales do have their place in jazz such as the Melodic Minor played a half step above an altered dominant chord sounds great for jazz and of course modal music definitely involves scales but in a completly different when then the way most people use them.
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#19
Melodic minor is what I use for my solos. And to the kid that said Scales are useless....
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#20
i didnt read everything..buttt i use blues and minor penta most times..depending..but only if its over a 12 bar blues..if not..then id go into modes
#21
wow people need to read into things more instead of making some random comment that they know nothing about. Please if you don't have any knowledge of jazz what so ever then don't post it's pointless.

If you don't believe me ask almost any jazz musician anywhere and they will tell you to practice your arps and make sure you know where the chord tones are in each chord progression, they will also tell you that scales are only really useful in modal jazz Ex. John Coltrane, Miles Davis, and Thelonious Monk.
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Last edited by VR2005 at Sep 10, 2006,
#22
Quote by VR2005
wow people need to read into things more instead of making some random comment that they know nothing about. Please if you don't have any knowledge of jazz what so ever then don't post it's pointless.

If you don't believe me ask almost any jazz musician anywhere and they will tell you to practice your arps and make sure you know where the chord tones are in each chord progression, they will also tell you that scales are only really useful in modal jazz Ex. John Coltrane, Miles Davis, and Thelonious Monk.



The way i would do it is figure out the key the chords fit in, and if lets say a Cmaj7 pops up make sure you hit some notes in those chords every so often. and only hold notes that are in that chord.

So if you know your scales/keys you can do this.

Pretty much its best to learn scales/keys/arpeggios
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#23
What I should say is learn your scales they're good but when you're improvising over a piece that has quick chord changes ala jazz why think about the scale to use and instead use the arpeggio and add chromatics to it. It involves much less thinking and much more feel.

Also thank you for being the only reasonable person here and having to ability to have a conversation with someone without completly throwing out their opinion just because they like their opinion better and don't want to have to work to learn all the arpeggios and just use scales which I believe will just confuse them in the long run in a traditional jazz piece.
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#24
dude wtf?? u ****ing siged my question and ur making fun of me??!! ass i'm just learning jazz guitar and i didn't freaking know! holy
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#25
Quote by acdc51502112
dude wtf?? u ****ing siged my question and ur making fun of me??!! ass i'm just learning jazz guitar and i didn't freaking know! holy


chill
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#26
did you not even read what i said in response to the accusation of offending you on the first page?
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#27
well u stillare offending me
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#28
alright i'll take it off just because you're offended.
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#29
thanks for that and your input to my learning of jazz.
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#30
Quote by VR2005
What I should say is learn your scales they're good but when you're improvising over a piece that has quick chord changes ala jazz why think about the scale to use and instead use the arpeggio and add chromatics to it. It involves much less thinking and much more feel.


So basically, all you're saying is you don't know your scales very well by heart so you take an easier approach by using what you do know by heart and adding on to that.

It only "involves less thinking" because... Your knowledge of the scales to use is obviously flawed. You should know both arpeggios and scales. Saying scales are useless in jazz or that you should "add chromatics to the arpeggio" is downright silly.
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#31
Quote by bluesrocker101
Melodic minor is what I use for my solos. And to the kid that said Scales are useless....


I found this:
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?scchnam=Melodic+Minor+%28Ascending%29&get2=Get

But it lists two melodic minor scales. One ascending, one descending. the ascending one is just 1,2,b3,4,5,6,7 and the descending is 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
I haven't heard of ascending and descending scales before. What is this? And which one are you talking about using?
#32
Quote by Leafs_fan_37
I found this:
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?scchnam=Melodic+Minor+%28Ascending%29&get2=Get

But it lists two melodic minor scales. One ascending, one descending. the ascending one is just 1,2,b3,4,5,6,7 and the descending is 1,2,b3,4,5,b6,b7
I haven't heard of ascending and descending scales before. What is this? And which one are you talking about using?


Generally the descending version is disregarded in jazz and generally strictly adhered to in most other genres, especially classical. It's to do with lots of stuff I can't be arsed typing.

So, he's talking about the first one.
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#33
Quote by VR2005
What I should say is learn your scales they're good but when you're improvising over a piece that has quick chord changes ala jazz why think about the scale to use and instead use the arpeggio and add chromatics to it. It involves much less thinking and much more feeling.



I never said that I don't know my scales and I never said not to use them, I merely said if you would have read them thoroughly that scales are of much less use in most jazz situations with the exception of the ones that I listed.

For your information I have strong knowledge of my scales in the modes of the Melodic Minor, Major and Modes, the harmonic minor scale, the pentatonics, the whole tone, the half whole and whole half, and a few indian classical scales.

So please don't bash me when you haven't even read into what i've said, I also don't understand why you guys are being complete assholes to me and can't even have a civilized conversation on our opinions on what approach you should take to improvising over traditional jazz pieces.

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#34
Quote by acdc51502112
thanks for that and your input to my learning of jazz.

Dude...when you picked up your guitar for the first time you played chords. In jazz, chords are called changes. Get you a book with the original changes in them. The Real Book is a good choice, published by Sher Music. Then get you a chord book that has every chord in it. Start with the ii-v7-1. More jazz music has been written in this progression than any other. In the key of c that would be Dm7-G7-CM7. If you play these chords in the first inversion it will sound like s-it. Find the Dm7 in the chord book around the middle of the neck then find an inversion of the G7 that you can play that's as close to the Dm7 that you can play. Then the same for the C major 7. It should walk backwards down the neck and you will be in the groove and playing jazz. After you learn the changes to the songs you like, start embellishing them with scale notes. Start with the pentatonic because they are "always right". Everyone is right in this thread but if you are a beginner, you need to learn the changes first because that's where jazz lives first and foremost. Good luck man..it will change your life. I almost forgot...LISTEN TO JAZZ. This the most improtant thing you can do. Go buy some JAZZ!!!
Last edited by benyard123 at Sep 28, 2006,
#35
Quote by VR2005
wow people need to read into things more instead of making some random comment that they know nothing about. Please if you don't have any knowledge of jazz what so ever then don't post it's pointless.

If you don't believe me ask almost any jazz musician anywhere and they will tell you to practice your arps and make sure you know where the chord tones are in each chord progression, they will also tell you that scales are only really useful in modal jazz Ex. John Coltrane, Miles Davis, and Thelonious Monk.

Straight up! The changes are everything. Arps are the best place to start. You have to listen and understand the chord structure before you can thow any scale to it.