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#1
Ok guys, I started with the major scale and got its principles, and then moved on to the minor, harmonic minor and melodic minor and got the difference between them. Then moved on to the circle of 5ths principle and understood how the sharps and flats are associated. Now Im at intervals but I dont know what exactly I need to know about it and how it can relate to my guitar playing.
Also please take the courtesy to test me in any of the baove field so I can really know if I understood these concepts or not. So experienced theorists you are now my teachers.!!!!

Enjoy!!!
#2
Yep, I'm pretty much goign to follow this thread as well, as I'm at pretty much the same stage. (I just read through the interval lessons a couple of hours ago lol.)
#3
The major scale can be divided into two identical four-tone segments. What do we call these segments?
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#4
^ i'd like to answer but i'm not understanding the specific question or at least what you are looking for......
#5
Quote by z4twenny
^ i'd like to answer but i'm not understanding the specific question or at least what you are looking for......
Breakstuff solicited some theory questions to test his theory knowledge. Here's the question put another way: What is the name of the two four-tone segments that, when combined, form the major scale?

Here's a hint: "four-tone" is a clue.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#6
Quote by gpb0216
The major scale can be divided into two identical four-tone segments. What do we call these segments?
Tetrachords.

(If I wasn't supposed to answer that, tell me, and I'll delete it)
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#7
Quote by aprescott_27
Tetrachords.

(If I wasn't supposed to answer that, tell me, and I'll delete it)
Tetrachord is the correct answer, specifically the Major Tetrachord. Congratulations!

Here's a follow-up...

What is the interval that separates the two major tetrachords that combine to form the major scale?
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#8
A whole step separates the two tetrachords in a major scale.
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#9
Okay apparently I miss some things here and there eventually. So what exactly is a tetrachord, I mean i thought the answer had something to do with : Tone,tone,semitone,tone, tone, tone, semitone
#10
A tetrachord is a series of four notes such that the first and second are separated by a whole step, the second and third are separated by a whole step and the third and fourth are separated by a half step. Like this:
 W W H
C D E F
or:
 W W H
G A B C
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#11
Quote by aprescott_27
A whole step separates the two tetrachords in a major scale.
Excellent! Let's keep going...

What is the sequence of intervals that combine to form the major tetrachord?

Quote by breakstuff
Okay apparently I miss some things here and there eventually. So what exactly is a tetrachord, I mean i thought the answer had something to do with : Tone,tone,semitone,tone, tone, tone, semitone
This is correct. You haven't really missed anything - I'm asking these questions to take you a little deeper. Hang in there...
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#12
Quote by aprescott_27
A tetrachord is a series of four notes such that the first and second are separated by a whole step, the second and third are separated by a whole step and the third and fourth are separated by a half step. Like this:
 W W H
C D E F
or:
W W H
G A B C
Correct! The questions are going to get a little deeper now...

We give names to the two identical major tetrachords when we combine them to form the major scale. What are the names we assign to these two major tetrachords?
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#13
Quote by gpb0216
Correct! The questions are going to get a little deeper now...

We give names to the two identical major tetrachords when we combine them to form the major scale. What are the names we assign to these two major tetrachords?



Okay so we have established that any major scale is composed of 2 tetrachords separated by a half step. Okay anything else we need to know about the major scale. h yeah what about the intervals how are they associated with the major scale
Last edited by breakstuff at Sep 22, 2006,
#14
Quote by breakstuff
Okay so we have established that any major scale is composed of 2 tetrachords separated by a half step. Okay anything else we need to know about the major scale.
Actually, the two major tetrachords are separated by a whole-step. And we're just getting started with the major scale.

Time's up on the latest major tetrachord question. Here's the answer:

We call the two major tetrachords that combine to form the major scale the lower and the upper tetrachords.

Here comes an interval question...

What is the name of the interval formed by the first tone of the lower tetrachord and the first tone of the upper tetrachord?
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#15
okay lets say we are working with the major scale of C to make things easy. secondly, is the first tetrachord the upper one or the lower one?
#16
Quote by breakstuff
okay lets say we are working with the major scale of C to make things easy. secondly, is the first tetrachord the upper one or the lower one?
Yes, let's start with C major. And thank you for pointing out the ambiguousness of my question. The first tone of the lower tetrachord is the lowest tone in that tetrachord and the first tone of the upper tetrachord is the lowest tone of that tetrachord.

So, to rephrase the question, what is the interval between the lowest tone of the lower tetrachord and the lowest tone of the upper tetrachord?

Now hang in there with this - we're actually taking this someplace.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#17
okay, so this is the lower tetrachord of the c major scale : C D E F
and this is the upper tetrachord of the scale: G A B C

About the question, i think i dont really understand what an interval is. is it a space between notes?

Thanks a lot 'gpb0216' for the support, I really need it. I am finally getting somewhere.
#18
Quote by breakstuff
okay, so this is the lower tetrachord of the c major scale : C D E F
and this is the upper tetrachord of the scale: G A B C

About the question, i think i dont really understand what an interval is. is it a space between notes?

Thanks a lot 'gpb0216' for the support, I really need it. I am finally getting somewhere.


An interval is the distance between two notes. So the question would be, what is the interval between C and G.

It is a "perfect fifth"

There interval lessons on here in the lesson section, and this is an AMAZING one

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/for_beginners/learning_music_theory_the_beginning.html

Good luck, and fire away if anything is unclear

Edit: good call john!
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
Last edited by iain4444 at Sep 22, 2006,
#20
great, ill check out the lessons and hit you back with any questions. Thanks for all the help guys
#21
Quote by breakstuff
okay, so this is the lower tetrachord of the c major scale : C D E F
and this is the upper tetrachord of the scale: G A B C
This is correct.
About the question, i think i dont really understand what an interval is. is it a space between notes?
Yes. An interval is the distance between either a lower and an upper tone (what you hear), or a lower and upper note (what you see).
Thanks a lot 'gpb0216' for the support, I really need it. I am finally getting somewhere.
You're very welcome. Let's keep going...

So our task here is to give the interval between the lower C and the upper G a name.

By the way, we always measure intervals from the lower tone/note to the upper tone/note. We might say something like "descend a major third", but we still measure the interval starting at the lower tone/note.

An interval name consists of two parts:
1. a quality and
2. a size.

For example, we have...
* a perfect (quality) fifth (size)
* a minor (quality) sixth (size)
* an augmented (quality) fourth (size), and so forth.

Back to our task. Here's a straightforward way to give an interval its correct name:

* Count (yes, simply count) the letter names from the lower tone/note to the upper tone/note.

In our example, naming the interval from C to G, let's just start at C and count to G.

1. C
2. D
3. E
4. F
5. G

I counted five. So, this interval is some sort of fifth. We don't know what kind of fifth we have yet, but we know it's a fifth.

* Next we determine if the upper tone/note is contained in the major scale built on the lower tone/note.

Is G contained in the C major scale? Yes, it is! Now you're going to need to simply trust me for this next part...

Fifths come primarily in three flavors:
1. diminished
2. perfect
3. augmented

There are two other flavors, but we'll stick with these three for now.

Since C major (whose tonic is C, the lower tone of the interval) contains G (the upper tone of the interval), the interval from C to G (here comes the trust part) is a Perfect Fifth (P5).

Is this making sense so far?
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#22
It is to me pretty much...combined with the knowledge I've already obtained on this subject, this is really seeming to help.

Gpb, you seem like you know your stuff. Could you by chance answer my most recent question in my topic "A Question Regarding The Major Scale"?

I need someone to answer it before I go any deeper into music theory.
#23
Quote by TooLateForRoses
It is to me pretty much...combined with the knowledge I've already obtained on this subject, this is really seeming to help. Gpb, you seem like you know your stuff. Could you by chance answer my most recent question in my topic "A Question Regarding The Major Scale"? I need someone to answer it before I go any deeper into music theory.
Done.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#26
Quote by Caseguitar
forget major get down with wholetone


Do you want to elaborate on that point, or explain why he/she should?

I recommend the major scale first definately.
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
#27
why the hell are you talking about tetrachords?! the man needs to learn his freaking triads. somebody link him to a triads lesson. or just google it.
"You are amazed that it is so easy to infect men with the war fever, and you surmise that man has in him an active instinct for hatred and destruction... I entirely agree with you."

--Sigmund Freud in a letter to Albert Einstein

#28
Quote by Dan Steinman
why the hell are you talking about tetrachords?! the man needs to learn his freaking triads. somebody link him to a triads lesson. or just google it.
Wow, cool your jets. The initial post solicited questions on the major and minor scales and intervals. There was no mention at all of triads. He said that he felt comfortable with scales and the Circle of Fifths. My objective was simply to help him see how the Circle of Fifths and scales were related by exploring the major tetrachord. (You know how they're related, right?) In any case, no harm, no foul (I hope).
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
Last edited by gpb0216 at Sep 23, 2006,
#29
Hey, gpb0216, I visited your website and studied the intervals both Class 1 and Class 2, totally comfortable with that. Then I moved on to the basic scales and looked at them, I know the Aeolian and the Ionian by heart, do I need to memorize the rest of them?

Also I then looked at the basic triads lesson and understood the concept. At the end of these lessons I have 2 questions:

1) If you apply double sharps to the interval C-F (WHICH IS A PEFECT FOURTH) will you get the perfect 4th : Cxx-Fxx

2) What are the 3 major triads and 3 minor triads? How are the 3 major triads different from each other and the same goes for the minor triads?
TESTAMENT, SCAR SYMMETRY......SELF EXPLANATORY


ALEX SKOLNICK, PER NILSSON........ADULATION MANDATORY


Gear: JACKSON RR3


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Last edited by breakstuff at Sep 24, 2006,
#30
Quote by breakstuff
Hey, gpb0216, I visited your website and studied the intervals both Class 1 and Class 2, totally comfortable with that. Then I moved on to the basic scales and looked at them, I know the Aeolian and the Ionian by heart, do I need to memorize the rest of them?
As a teacher my reply would be "absolutely!", but as a practical matter, if you only wanted to learn two more I'd suggest the Dorian and Mixolydian. But then again, the more you know, the better it gets.
Also I then looked at the basic triads lesson and understood the concept. At the end of these lessons I have 2 questions:

1) If you apply double sharps to the interval C-F (WHICH IS A PEFECT FOURTH) will you get the perfect 4th : Cxx-Fxx
Yes. Any interval retains its same quality if the same accidental is applied to both tones of that interval.
2) What are the 3 major triads and 3 minor triads? How are the 3 major triads different from each other and the same goes for the minor triads?
The qualities of the triads remain the same. In other words, a major triad is a major triad, period. What changes is the function of these major and minor triads because of their positions within the tonal "atmosphere". Put another way, the I, IV and V diatonic traids we build on the tones of the major scale are all major triads. Their functions within that tonality, however, are very, very different.

Did I express that clearly enough?
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#31
Quote by gpb0216
As a teacher my reply would be "absolutely!", but as a practical matter, if you only wanted to learn two more I'd suggest the Dorian and Mixolydian. But then again, the more you know, the better it gets.
Yes. Any interval retains its same quality if the same accidental is applied to both tones of that interval.
The qualities of the triads remain the same. In other words, a major triad is a major triad, period. What changes is the function of these major and minor triads because of their positions within the tonal "atmosphere". Put another way, the I, IV and V diatonic traids we build on the tones of the major scale are all major triads. Their functions within that tonality, however, are very, very different.

Did I express that clearly enough?


So the three major triads contain the exact same intervals but are composed of different tones or notes. Is that it?
TESTAMENT, SCAR SYMMETRY......SELF EXPLANATORY


ALEX SKOLNICK, PER NILSSON........ADULATION MANDATORY


Gear: JACKSON RR3


Member#25 of the IRON MAIDEN ARE GODS CLUB. PM Revelations to Join
#32
Quote by breakstuff
So the three major triads contain the exact same intervals but are composed of different tones or notes. Is that it?
If I understand your question, the answer is yes.

A major triad in root, or first, position is composed of these intervals...

root to third: Major Third (M3)
root to fifth: Perfect Fifth (P5)
third to fifth: Minor Third (m3)

The family of diatonic triads built on the major scale contains three major triads. For example, in the key of C major, these major triads are...

The I chord (C E G)
The IV chord (F A C)
The V chord (G B D)

These three major triads are identical in their intervallic makeup but very different in both their tonal makeup and their functionality within the C major tonality.

Again, am I explaining this clearly enough?
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#33
Ok I get it, the 3 major triads are composed of the same intervals, but of different tones as apparent from your last reply. Now concerning diatonic triads, there are eight of them for every scale,right?
Also the 3 major triads are like templates for the rest of the family,right?
What else do I need to know about the diatonic triads? because I was a bit confused with the website because my mind probably was not as fresh as it was in the morning.
TESTAMENT, SCAR SYMMETRY......SELF EXPLANATORY


ALEX SKOLNICK, PER NILSSON........ADULATION MANDATORY


Gear: JACKSON RR3


Member#25 of the IRON MAIDEN ARE GODS CLUB. PM Revelations to Join
#34
Quote by TooLateForRoses
...Are you implying that the major scale is useless?


major scale is good for beginners working within confines.
wholetone is a lot grayer and less defined.
Its like do you want to go on the dumbo ride at disney
or Joy riding a nascar car?
i like the latter better
#35
The Major Scale is considered the basis of music theory, so if you think it's just for beginners then you are a complete idiot. Everyone needs to know it, whether they use it or not.
#36
Quote by breakstuff
Now concerning diatonic triads, there are eight of them for every scale,right?
For an eight-tone scale, there are seven different diatonic triads. Triad number eight is the duplication of the first triad at the octave.
Also the 3 major triads are like templates for the rest of the family, right?
I'm afraid I don't understand this question. Would you mind trying to put this another way?
What else do I need to know about the diatonic triads? because I was a bit confused with the website because my mind probably was not as fresh as it was in the morning.
I think your first step would involve getting very comfortable with the chord progression V-I around the Circle of Fifths. Once you feel very secure with that progression in all 12 major and 12 minor keys, move on to the ii-V-I progression around the Circle in the major keys.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#37
What about this statement: Every Major scale has a Relative Minor scale which includes the exact same notes but the sequence of notes is different.

So do we use this": Flats > B E A D G C F < Sharps; to help us find out what notes appear with sharps as you go around the circle of fifths respectively whether clockwise for sharps or counter clockwise for flats?


I understand the concept of the circle of fifths which emphasizes scale construction using tetrachords either with flats or sharps, BUT......

The E Major scale contains 4 sharps, are they F#,C#,G#,D#. If not how do we determine the sharps in the scale? If correct then what is the key Signature of the E major scale. In addition, its relative minor is the C# Minor scale, so would it share the same key signature.

There is something else I dont get, what is the difference between chords and triads theoretically and on a guitar?
TESTAMENT, SCAR SYMMETRY......SELF EXPLANATORY


ALEX SKOLNICK, PER NILSSON........ADULATION MANDATORY


Gear: JACKSON RR3


Member#25 of the IRON MAIDEN ARE GODS CLUB. PM Revelations to Join
Last edited by breakstuff at Sep 25, 2006,
#38
Quote by TooLateForRoses
The Major Scale is considered the basis of music theory, so if you think it's just for beginners then you are a complete idiot. Everyone needs to know it, whether they use it or not.


my friend were you not asking stuff about theory. you are an idiot for basically ingnoring every other type of music in the world outside of western music. just because you think something is right from reading books doesn't mean your right. its attitudes like yours that r problems. it so narrow minded to think in such a way. Your boundaries restrict yourself from full musicianship. play your power chords i'd rather play ethnic music.
#39
Quote by breakstuff
What about this statement: Every Major scale has a Relative Minor scale which includes the exact same notes but the sequence of notes is different. So do we use this...Flats > B E A D G C F < Sharps to help us find out what notes appear with sharps as you go around the circle of fifths respectively whether clockwise for sharps or counter clockwise for flats?
I'm sorry, but this question is incomprehensible to me. Would you mind trying to put this another way?
I understand the concept of the circle of fifths which emphasizes scale construction using tetrachords either with flats or sharps, BUT......The E Major scale contains 4 sharps, are they F#,C#,G#,D#.
Yes, this is correct.
If not how do we determine the sharps in the scale? If correct then what is the key Signature of the E major scale.
The key signature for E major is just as you have indicated, namely four sharps: F#, C#, G# and D#.
In addition, its relative minor is the C# Minor scale, so would it share the same key signature?
Yes. E major and C# minor share the same key signature.
There is something else I dont get, what is the difference between chords and triads theoretically and on a guitar?
A triad, technically, consists of three and only three different tones, normally separated by the interval of a 3rd. A chord, on the other hand, must contain at least three different tones, but there is no upper limit to the number of different tones it can contain, and neither is there any requirement concerning which intervals may or may not separate these tones.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#40
Quote by Caseguitar
my friend were you not asking stuff about theory. you are an idiot for basically ingnoring every other type of music in the world outside of western music. just because you think something is right from reading books doesn't mean your right. its attitudes like yours that r problems. it so narrow minded to think in such a way. Your boundaries restrict yourself from full musicianship. play your power chords i'd rather play ethnic music.


How do you reach your hand so far up your butt to pull all of those retarded statements out?? You have no idea about what I play, how I play, or all the different music I listen to. And I'd rather stick with what all of the books, websites, and intelligent people (obviously not you) than some retard who can't even freaking spell. Stop assuming stuff and pulling words out of your butt, and figure out what you're actually talking about before you make yourself seem even dumber, as if that's possible.
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