#1
Here's a problem I've found recently. Thought it would be good to get openions on how to work this out:

Whole tone bending problem(s?):

Any time I bend I end up either catching a string i'm bending through/to and sounding it on the way back, or I end up stuck under one of the strings (I figure this may because of some sorta roll happening... should it?).


Pull-off problem?

Any time I pull-off of the high e string, I end up pulling it off the side and either deadening it instantly, or, more likely, I end up making a higher pitched and akward sounding.

Part of this is due to the fact that I don't think I've had anyone really set it dead straight on how to do a proper pull-off. I've had someone on here before tell me that one way to do it is to just barely catch it with the slightest of sideways movement, but then to just go verticle and sound it.... anything wrong here?

Thanks for any advice.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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#2
As for bending, when you push your finger all the way up, i dont think its a problem if you touch the other string above. you just need to mute it properly. you can do this 2 ways in my opinion, 1st is you can use right hands palm to mute it when you play, or 2ndly, in some occasions the first may not be as comfortable you can even use your left hand to mute the strings...you can do that either by using the other fingers which are not doing the bending to mute it for ya or in my case..ive found it rather easy to use my bending finger to mute the above string... just use the tip of your finger when it is bending to lightly touch the above string (but you might need to use your right hand palm to help mute it on the way down

as for pull-offs... when on the little e string, you got the pulling downwards motion spot on, but you should practising pullin downward n releasing just before your fingers leave the fretboard....just keep at it, you'll get the hang out it...

hope this helped...peace!
#3
Quote by Outside Octaves
Whole tone bending problem(s?):

Any time I bend I end up either catching a string i'm bending through/to and sounding it on the way back, or I end up stuck under one of the strings (I figure this may because of some sorta roll happening... should it?).


The first problem where you're sounding another string is always going to happen. You're bending the string and it's touching another string, when you release the force and bring the bend back down - you're going to vibrate the adjacent string. It happens to everyone.

Remedying that has already been explained - you can either rest your palm lightly on the adjacent string, which deadens the strings above the bend, but make sure you don't accidentally mute the string you're bending.

Or you can mute with your fretting hand - usually, you'll be doing a bend with 2 or more fingers, which means you're normally going to have your index finger free - so when you bend up, the index finger comes out of support the bend and lightly lays on the top of the adjacent strings.. it has to be lightly though, because if you plonk it on top, you're still going to create that excess noise.

You're other problem sounds like you're putting too much pressure on the string before bending it, and then bending it up with your fingers instead of using your wrist as the primary upward force.

When you bend with your fingers - your fingers naturally dig into the string and instead of pushing upward, you kind of push in and up.. if you can visualize that, so when you bend, the string and your fingerd end up underneath the adjacent string.

Try not putting as much pressure on the string before you bend it, and bend by twisting your wrist.. try visualizing the motion you use to open a door handle.. that's the motion you want.


Quote by Outside Octaves
Pull-off problem?

Any time I pull-off of the high e string, I end up pulling it off the side and either deadening it instantly, or, more likely, I end up making a higher pitched and akward sounding.

Part of this is due to the fact that I don't think I've had anyone really set it dead straight on how to do a proper pull-off. I've had someone on here before tell me that one way to do it is to just barely catch it with the slightest of sideways movement, but then to just go verticle and sound it.... anything wrong here?


Again.. this simply sounds like you're pressing to hard and using too much skin to fret the notes. You press too hard, it takes more force to pull your finger off the string - you're anchor finger gives way and your pull off finger takes the string off to the side.

Legato in your fingers should feel really natural and tight if you're doing it the right way - that's where most people go wrong. It's drummed into their heads that legato means using all the force in your hand imaginable to literally hammer on to the string, and then pull off like your finger is attached to a bungee chord. Doing that completely defeats the object.. if you're hammering on by lunging, that ain't going to sound smooth and it isn't going to flow.

Doing legato the right way requires minimal force on your behalf.. no excess force is needed. I think Joe Satriani once said.. ''Legato should feel like rolling mercury in your hands''.

Okay... banish everything you've learnt about pulling off the string with an upward motion into the sky. That's wrong and doesn't allow for effortless legato.

When your finger is on the string, it should be resting on it - if you're on the tip of your finger in a spot where you get gravity is pushing it down, you don't need any force to fret the note, gravity is doing it for you - and you can concentrate on applying that energy to economising your movement.

When you pull off, your finger should come down off the string and into the wood - visualize pulling your finger off and hitting on the wood below the string. When you do this, your finger naturally flicks off the string and generates enough vibration to keep the string ringing at an audible volume.

Try that and see if it helps you get over some of these problems.. if you don't understand anything or want clarification on some stuff.. just ask. Or I'll explain on MSN for you later if you want.

G'luck.
#4
I don't use much force at all now-a-days. now that I'm on this relaxation method... I use as little force as neccisary, if at all.

To get straight to the point here:

I do not understand what you talking about here when it comes to the actual technique of pulling off to the fretboard. How, in specifics, is that done? I mean, I can come up with several on my own, but all of them so far have other strings sounding right off, even with damping.

Edit:

Another point:

I also cannot visuallize the wrist motion, and what not, involved in the bending... *Big Sigh*
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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Last edited by Outside Octaves at Sep 27, 2006,
#5
I HATE double posting, and yet here I am doing it trying to get Johns attention here... ( @ myself).


Edit:
Just got my answer to this post online..... now I'm just waiting on the official reply .
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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Last edited by Outside Octaves at Sep 28, 2006,
#6
Hey, sorry it took so long to reply. Life and all. Anyway..

Quote by Outside Octaves
I do not understand what you talking about here when it comes to the actual technique of pulling off to the fretboard. How, in specifics, is that done? I mean, I can come up with several on my own, but all of them so far have other strings sounding right off, even with damping.


Yeah.. this is kind of hard to explain in words without a visual representation, but I'll try.

Get comfortable and relax your whole body (you can use meditations and affirmations or any other technique).. just aslong as you're sitting down comfortably and you're relaxed.

Lift your fingers up to the fretboard and simply put one finger onto any fret. Just put it there with no force, just let it do what it wants to do - with no impedance from your mind or ego with things like.. 'Am I pressing hard enough?' - Just put it there. (You can visualize someone else moving your finger for you if you want, or that you're a puppet.. whatever, just make sure you're letting the finger do what it wants to do).

It'll feel weird because your fingers are used to being moved and forced by you - so to whatever extent your finger wants to press, just let it.

At this stage you can choose what notes you want.. doesn't matter, just aslong as you have a finger on a note so you can pull off to the open string, or two fingers down so you can pull off the anchored finger.

Keep in the relaxed state of mind - inhale deeply, exhale slowly.. and on the exhale simply let your finger drop off the string. LET it drop, don't make it, force it or want it to drop - simply let it drop off the string.

You should find, that when you're this relaxed and detached from the result of what's going to happen - that your energy moves to the path of least resistance, that is it goes where it is easiest to go.

If there is no external pressure, stress and thought on your behalf - the finger is going to drop off the string using the least amount of stress and strain possible. It takes a lot more energy to force your finger off the string upwards, than it does to simply let it drop on it's own accord (the path of least resistance).

I can't really explain it thoroughly without a visual representation, but let it drop off string is what I'm trying to say in a nutshell. If you're letting it drop, it'll end up on the fretboard just below the string - and when it drops, it wil come off the string and make it vibrate enough to keep an audible volume going. You'll probably find it easier to get the right volume out of it this way, than mindlessly pulling your finger upward in an attempt to get it to ring.

If that's still a bit unclear, then I guess I'll have to find a video or picture online somewhere, or perhaps take one myself.

Quote by Outside Octaves
I also cannot visuallize the wrist motion, and what not, involved in the bending...


No problem.. it is something hard to visualize when you're not familiar with it, or you're used to forcing the strings up with your fingers.

Okay.. stretch your arm out in front of you - palm facing towards the floor, knuckles pointing toward the ceiling.

You can do what you want here.. visualize a door knob in your hand, visualize a ball in your hand.. you can even go up to a door knob and grab hold of it.. whatever, just aslong as it's something replicating the motion of opening a door handle.

Now, 'turn the door knob' if you're holding one, or try to visualize and replicate the motion if you're not.

That's the motion you want, using those muscles to bend the string upwards. Your fingers should stay in exactly the same position they were before the bend, just on the string and planted there, when you bend - you don't move them or exert any pressure with them, it should all come from that wrist and forearm motion.

If you're still having trouble doing it consciously like that.. you can do whatever you have to do to get into a nice comfortable and relaxed state of mind again, a kind of semi-medititive state, if you will - grab your guitar, visualize the string your fingers is on as a door knob, and without thinking.. 'Okay bend the string'.. just use the motion you used to turn the door knob.. convince yourself the string is a door knob and turn it, so to speak.

If that doesn't work.. again I'll try for some visual examples for you if you want.

Hope I've cleared some of that up for you, and I apologize again for the delay in answering.
Last edited by Johnljones7443 at Oct 1, 2006,
#7
Hmmmm,

As far as pulling-off:

Ok... I think I may have actually gotten it now, but I don't know if this is possible on my Ibanez RG 320 DX's neck. It's far to narrow between the strings... hmmm i dunno...

I also have noticed that I can trill much easier than trying to play something from a piece like paranoid's solo (Iommi).

Gee-Wizz...
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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Last edited by Outside Octaves at Oct 2, 2006,
#8
I've been trying to learn these 4 measures of Iommi's version of Paranoid's solo for like..... close to two months, if not more..... and FINALLY, it's up to 100% of the 164bpm. I've even combined these four measures with the previous measures of the solo!
THANKS TO YOU GUYS!!!!!! WOOT!

What a frigg'n rush man! Like... TOTALLY TUBULAR DUDES!!


-Outside Octaves

Thinking outside of the octaves!


P.S.
NEVER!, has there been a more appropriate time for the Cannibis Leaf Logo I use all the time . (I probably didn't spell Cannibis right..... u know me ...... I'm just so excited... I can't hide it... come on, come on, come on... I want you..... gota love the pointer sisters at a moment like this. I wish I had that song somewhere on my pc.
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

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DO NOT CLICK HERE!
Last edited by Outside Octaves at Oct 12, 2006,