#1
Inspired by the suicide thread...

"Life is worth living no matter what", was a line someone wrote. And I'm curious, exactly why do you feel that way, or do you say it without really thinking about it?

In my experience, the whole "go on no matter what", is originally a primeval, animal instinct - if individuals of some species' would be able to choose to just fall down and die during hard times, eventually the species would become extinct (or at least, the probability of survival for the species' would decrease dramatically).

Now in modern society, instincts are replaced by wishes and decisions based on thoughts as well as feelings, and not on the drive to ensure survival of the tribe/species no matter what. This sort of promotes individualism (and so do our current ethical values, capitalism etc - sucess of the individual is usually placed above success of your nation, even if in books and words, we're all patriotic heroes). And since we've started with the topic of suicide and how it is "not right", I'm curious how does this connect.

To explain myself further: in our culture, the ultimate hapiness is pretty much a myth. Books, movies, etc - everything displays life as one grand struggle, a series of challenges and problems one must defeat, not to achieve anything, but just to be able to go on with their life. There's numerous sayings emphatizing that everyone has to work hard, etc. A more or less typical example of an average life, is a person working a day job, spending basically half (if not more) of their adult life doing something that they don't care much for at best, and at worst - doing something they hate, just to sustain themselves and their family, and ensure at least somewhat comfortable lifestyle and some healthcare in their elderly years. There's also plenty of images from the lives of those more successful than the average man, media stars, whatever millionaires and whatnot, but they're all usually displayed with millions of problems and issues as well.

Life is no longer a grand struggle to survive, but it doesn't seem to be like something done out of enjoyment either, more like a routine of constantly repeating actions and rather repetitive things done for 'amusement' in the spare time.

In medieval times, there was the Church and the bible. You'd go to hell if you sinned, you'd go to hell if you went against the Crown, you'd go to hell if you didn't do this or that.

In our days, there's police to stop you from stealing, there's FBI to stop you from going against the government and whatnot. But what stops you from ending your own life, if you feel like it?

They say, "life's ultimate purpose, is life itself". But that's hardly an answer to anything.


Thoughts, opinions?
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#2
suicide is a cry for help, when people 'threaten' to comit suicide, or phone people to say they're to do it, never really do. People who truly want to die kill themselves just do it
#3
Humans are only 'zones' for DNA to reproduce... we're nothing else.
The will to neither strive nor cry,
The power to feel with others give.
Calm, calm me more; nor let me die
Before I have begun to live.

-Matthew Arnold

Arguments are to be avoided; they are always vulgar and often convincing.
#4
what stops you from killing yourself?

well, i think about it sometimes, and my main reason is decency. If life is so bad as you say it is, why make it worse for the people who like or even love you? youre not alive anymore, but you still make other people unhappy.

I, personally, am quite happy about life. The trick is to enjoy, to realise that some stupid test or a job isnt the most important thing in life, to enjoy little things, like great music, or nice weather, cuz thats what matters.

im gonna be a hippie and end this post: dont worry, be happy
#5
I can see what you're saying, it's a very interesting notion you have here. I don't know, but my Islamic views means I believe in another life after this one, and that life is a test to see who's worthy of Paradise and who should go to hell. Therefore, I live my life as best as I can, do whatever I think is best and I try to help other people.

Good thread, by the way, I look forward to all the replies
#6
Well, i've felt suicidal before, but I can never bring myself to do anything. I don't know what is going to happen. Things might seem bad at the time, but the next day I could be happy and fine (which is what happens). I really don't think most people have an excuse to kill themselves. I mean, everyone goes through hard times, some people more than others; that's just part of being human.
#7
Quote by ar73m

To explain myself further: in our culture, the ultimate hapiness is pretty much a myth. Books, movies, etc - everything displays life as one grand struggle, a series of challenges and problems one must defeat, not to achieve anything, but just to be able to go on with their life. There's numerous sayings emphatizing that everyone has to work hard, etc. A more or less typical example of an average life, is a person working a day job, spending basically half (if not more) of their adult life doing something that they don't care much for at best, and at worst - doing something they hate, just to sustain themselves and their family, and ensure at least somewhat comfortable lifestyle and some healthcare in their elderly years. There's also plenty of images from the lives of those more successful than the average man, media stars, whatever millionaires and whatnot, but they're all usually displayed with millions of problems and issues as well.


Maybe you should just stop caring about what other people, society, media, and government tell you. The only thing that matters is what you think. I heard a qoute from a movie called "wonder boys" (about a writer, its great) and he says to a student "who cares what I think, who cares what anyone thinks. Most people don't think" I think its great.

The only person that makes you happy is you. Happiness is a state of mind. If you walk around with the attitute you currently (seem to have, based on what you've said here) have, you will never be happy.

To me, life is VERY important. I would never take my own, or someone elses. I AM happy, and am enjoying life. I feel sorry for anyone who isn't.
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
#8
"Life is no longer a grand struggle to survive, but it doesn't seem to be like something done out of enjoyment either, more like a routine of constantly repeating actions and rather repetitive things done for 'amusement' in the spare time."
thats exactly what i have been thinking, but have been struggling to put into words
very good thread
If you dont enjoy your life, then you should try to start a new life somewhere else, meet new people and go to new places etc. if you cant bring yourself to do this, then you are a weak person and deserve to live the life you live.
My uncle commit suicide due to depression, none of my family know exactly why he was depressed, but people have strange minds that think in different ways. Even if you know a person very well, you dont know what is going on in their mind. Its just your own opinion of life that decides if you are to live or not.
#9
we don't need to be happy, animals aren't happy, they are there to reproduce themselves, and we should do the same
meanwhile, at the "What would you sell your soul for?" thread...
Quote by Stooja
For The Ability to write lyrics and sing better, and play guitar better of course.

And Chuck some hot chicks in aswell...

Quote by nextBIGthing1
^ You really think YOUR soul is worth that much?
#11
Quote by SulphurousBill
we don't need to be happy, animals aren't happy, they are there to reproduce themselves, and we should do the same


True. We are all here to reproduce and carry on the Genetic code of life.
So lets all get naked and **** ourselfs stupid.
#12
So, I'm guessing we are talking about people in our age group? Around 14-25 or something... Well, i've only thought about suicide once or twice when I was younger. Really it isn't worth it, so a girl may not like you, so you're never allowed to do anything you want. Eventually you will have the perfect woman for you, and eventually you will be able to do as you wish. If you kill yourself, not only are you distrupting the natural way of living for everyone who knows you, but you also destroy the possibility of having children and experience the rest of your life. For all you know, in a few years you may be the happiest person in the world, you may be a millionaire, have a great wife and family and so on.
You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to, so when they turn their back on you, you get a chance to put the knife in.
#13
Oh, I'm not trying to say I don't care about my life, or that I'm suicidal or anything :p It's more of a general thread; and based on what I see in general. Like for example my parents, they've never done anything in their lives, and I know they haven't really been happy for at least like 15-20 last years of their lives. I'm sure they weren't the only ones, . And as for the person who said, "enjoy the moments", that's true - and that's what I think life should be about, to be able to enjoy your life, you must learn to enjoy every moment of it, and act so that you enjoy every moment of your existance; but that's not always possible. And also, so many people work really hard to achieve some desired moment, some dream etc - struggling and suffering in the process - and usually only to find out that the moment or dream they worked so hard for isn't really worth it. Then they usually fall down and just continue with the routine for the rest of their lives - a sad picture indeed.
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#14
Quote by ar73m
Inspired by the suicide thread...

"Life is worth living no matter what", was a line someone wrote. And I'm curious, exactly why do you feel that way, or do you say it without really thinking about it?


I said something like that, and the statement wasn't generic, it was said within a context. And if a kid living in a free country, with food, clothing, a roof above his head and a good chance at becoming somebody would think that life isn't worth living, he'd have to have shitty irresponsible parents. Whatever the case, suicide is not the sollution.


Quote by ar73m

Now in modern society, instincts are replaced by wishes and decisions based on thoughts as well as feelings, and not on the drive to ensure survival of the tribe/species no matter what.


In our intensely economic money and corporate driven world, that couldn't be further from the truth.

Quote by ar73m

To explain myself further: in our culture, the ultimate hapiness is pretty much a myth. Books, movies, etc - everything displays life as one grand struggle, a series of challenges and problems one must defeat, not to achieve anything, but just to be able to go on with their life.


As shocking as it may seem, many people get a sense of achievement from what they do.


Quote by ar73m

There's numerous sayings emphatizing that everyone has to work hard, etc. A more or less typical example of an average life, is a person working a day job, spending basically half (if not more) of their adult life doing something that they don't care much for at best, and at worst - doing something they hate, just to sustain themselves and their family, and ensure at least somewhat comfortable lifestyle and some healthcare in their elderly years. There's also plenty of images from the lives of those more successful than the average man, media stars, whatever millionaires and whatnot, but they're all usually displayed with millions of problems and issues as well.


Being able to handle that is what separates the strong from the weak.


Quote by ar73m

Life is no longer a grand struggle to survive, but it doesn't seem to be like something done out of enjoyment either, more like a routine of constantly repeating actions and rather repetitive things done for 'amusement' in the spare time.


Yes, that's absolutely right. I wonder why isn't everyone commiting suicide?

Quote by ar73m

In medieval times, there was the Church and the bible. You'd go to hell if you sinned, you'd go to hell if you went against the Crown, you'd go to hell if you didn't do this or that.

In our days, there's police to stop you from stealing, there's FBI to stop you from going against the government and whatnot. But what stops you from ending your own life, if you feel like it?


Nothing, really. In the case of some people, they'd be doing others a favor.


Quote by ar73m

They say, "life's ultimate purpose, is life itself". But that's hardly an answer to anything.


I wouldn't say there's an ultimate purpose to life, but rather, lots of "smaller" purposes.
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#15
My life is pretty boring, but I enjoy it. In fact, I could ask for anything better. My life is perfect, I realise and respect that. I want to live because I enjoy the simple pleasures, which you can't enjoy when you're dead.
#16
Quote by ar73m
Oh, I'm not trying to say I don't care about my life, or that I'm suicidal or anything :p It's more of a general thread; and based on what I see in general. Like for example my parents, they've never done anything in their lives, and I know they haven't really been happy for at least like 15-20 last years of their lives. I'm sure they weren't the only ones, . And as for the person who said, "enjoy the moments", that's true - and that's what I think life should be about, to be able to enjoy your life, you must learn to enjoy every moment of it, and act so that you enjoy every moment of your existance; but that's not always possible. And also, so many people work really hard to achieve some desired moment, some dream etc - struggling and suffering in the process - and usually only to find out that the moment or dream they worked so hard for isn't really worth it. Then they usually fall down and just continue with the routine for the rest of their lives - a sad picture indeed.


enjoy as much as you can, but dont push all bad feelings away. As all is relative, somtimes you feel bad, just feel it, youll feel better afterwards
#17
I don't think I'll ever actually kill myself. Well, never say never though.

My life has had a lot of sucky moments but suicide is not my option. My life is finally starting to get interesting to me and I'm gaining confidence which is changing me as well. Let's just say that I'm reading the book about my own life and I can't wait to read the next page.
#18
Quote by dinkydaisy
Humans are only 'zones' for DNA to reproduce... we're nothing else.

This is the benefit of being a Christian; I don't have to think epressing thoughts like this.
Death to Ovation haters!
#19
Quote by PatchworkMan
This is the benefit of being a Christian; I don't have to think epressing thoughts like this.

This is why religions were invented in the first place.

edit: wow that might have sounded stupid, sorry if that seemed offensive to anyone. :p I'm partly religious myself...
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Last edited by ar73m at Sep 27, 2006,
#21
Quote by ar73m
This is why religions were invented in the first place.

edit: wow that might have sounded stupid, sorry if that seemed offensive to anyone. :p I'm partly religious myself...


And from religion we get the afterlife - this life sucks, but when we die it gets better!

Personally I believe we get this life and this life only, we have to make the best of it. There's no point in putting all your faith in an afterlife when really you'll be rotting six feet under.
You get one life to live, so make good use of it.
#22
Quote by Mister.Y
what stops you from killing yourself?

well, i think about it sometimes, and my main reason is decency. If life is so bad as you say it is, why make it worse for the people who like or even love you? youre not alive anymore, but you still make other people unhappy.

I, personally, am quite happy about life. The trick is to enjoy, to realise that some stupid test or a job isnt the most important thing in life, to enjoy little things, like great music, or nice weather, cuz thats what matters.

im gonna be a hippie and end this post: dont worry, be happy


preach! a lot of people could take a lesson from this guy
To see him obviously framed.
Couldnt help but make me feel ashamed.
To live in a land, where justice is a game.
#23
Quote by PatchworkMan
This is the benefit of being a Christian; I don't have to think epressing thoughts like this.


Yep. Nothing like a little uplifting bullshit to make yourself feel better.
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#24
Yep. Nothing like a little uplifting bullshit to make yourself feel better.
Well if the outcome is the same, why not give yourself the pleasure of believing in some 'uplifting bullshit' anyway?
If there is no God, you lose nothing from believing, if there is one and your faith makes you go to paradise instead of hell, what's there to lose?
That said, I'm not Christian, and I do find religious extremism stupid, just as most do - but there's nothing wrong with having something to believe in.
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#25
Well if the outcome is the same, why not give yourself the pleasure of believing in some 'uplifting bullshit' anyway?


Why not? I never said you couldn't. It's a free world (mostly), and anyone's free to believe whatever they wish, and I'm free to be skeptical and make comments about what they believe, and I am not one to deny them happiness.
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#26
Quote by deruvid
preach! a lot of people could take a lesson from this guy


thanks a lot

doesnt anyone have a different opinion on life?
#27
Quote by Spamwise
Well, i've felt suicidal before, but I can never bring myself to do anything. I don't know what is going to happen. Things might seem bad at the time, but the next day I could be happy and fine (which is what happens). I really don't think most people have an excuse to kill themselves. I mean, everyone goes through hard times, some people more than others; that's just part of being human.



ditto.
I'm breathing so I guess I'm still alive.


Quote by PaperStSoapCo
get new friends. i dont associate with Fall Out Boy fans. they deserve cancer and humiliation. like ass cancer.
#28
I try and think of life as a gift, and seen as it'll only last for a limited amount of time, I should try and enjoy it as much as possible.

Thinking about it any more than this is pointless.
___________________________


___________________________
#29
I'd never commit suicide. Its incredibly pointless. It just causes a lot of hurt. I wanna ride this life out till to a point where I can look back at all great stuff I've achieved. I haven't really done anything yet but I'm working on it.
WHY DID I BECOME A HOBO!?

Currently playing - Bioshock (360) Forza 2 (360) Mario Kart (Wii) and some CoD4 (360)
#31
If you don't like your life, change it. If you can't change your life, change yourself. If you can't change yourself, take a vacation to Amsterdam, get stoned off your ass, get a hooker, wake up a week later with a raging STD, realize that your life wasn't so bad before, because at least you didn't have an STD, then laugh about it. Then go see a doctor about that infection.
#32
i enjoy life cuz of my guitar playing, good circle of friends, fave teachers,mom and dad,and i can write poems. and cuz i don't want my enemies to win.