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#1
Allright, I'm pissed off and I need to blow steam. It's my ****ing parents. They have me feeling like they consider me an investment, something they own and put money in for personal gain. Not a child, not their son, a ****ING entry in their share portfolio. Something that they "should stop wasting money on it's not going to do what we want".

I'm in yr11 for VCE, and I have to decide which subjects I'm going to do next year, and I want to do music (in order to learn as much as I can off the incredible saxophone teacher). Each subject gets its score raised or lowered and these altered subject scores determine your total mark. Your total mark determines which uni courses you can get into without paying a couple of hundred thousand dollars. The school needs your parents to approve your subject choices. Music's score is lowered (slightly).

My ****ing father is determined that he won't let me study music because it gets a couple of points knocked off and may mean that I don't get into one of the uni courses he wants me to - i.e. law or medicine at the particular university he's fixated upon. I have absolutely NO INTEREST in becoming either a doctor or a lawyer, but he is still determined that I do absolutely anything to make my mark as high as possible, which extends to choosing subjects because they mark up and for no other reason. He tells me that this number you get at the end of yr12 is the most important thing that I do in my life, (That's a ****ing quote - the most important thing I do with my life is not doing what I want, making myself happy, or being good to people; it's a goddamn TEST) and that it will determine what I do with my life. He is the ONLY person to say this. Everyone else, all my teachers, the school's career person, other adults say the opposite. My mum hasn't said what she thinks about it.

My parents say they doesn't want me to make the mistakes they made (my dad messed up his high school, worked on ships for a long time, and became a surgeon about 10 years ago), to get the most out of my schooling, to be able to get a good job, etc, etc, and that its their right to decide what I do at school and how I live my life until I leave home. Until this year they haven't pushed this. Now they are starting to.

My dad's other thing that he's been doing my entire life is yabbering on about his ****ing goddamn dotage. For those that don't know, it's money I give him when he's old for bringing me up. Recently, he's started to get really serious about it, and another of his arguments for me not studing music is that I won't get a job where I earn enough to give him his dotage.

SO: my ****ing parents have decided that I am going to grow up, go to uni, earn lots of money and pay them for raising me, and that it's their god-given right to do so. To control MY ****ing life, to turn me into what they want me to be so I can pay them because I'm told I owe it to them. The way I see it, I don't owe them a single ****ing cent for bringing me up. If my parents ever need money from me because they have none of their own, I'll give them money, but I will NOT pay for my life on their principle. People are not born into debt, and raising a child should be an act of love and charity, a gift, and that's how I'll do it if I should ever have a child.

My parents have no right to demand I pay them for my existance, nor do they have any right to force me into things so they can live out their lives through me, under the guise of preventing me from making mistakes. If I **** up, I want it to be my **** up and not anyone else's. They should stop playing catch up with my life and accept the mistakes in theirs. They have NO right make decisions that are nomially mine for me under the pretence that they can because I'm living under their roof. They brought me into the world and raised me, yes, but they owe it to me, just as their parents owed it to them, to shelter and provide for me until I could take care of myself. If not, if they expect something in return, then they have given me nothing and then, from an absolutely material perspective, I owe them nothing either.

I am myself, I owe nothing to anyone for myself, and I am free to what I will with myself. These shall not be taken from me.


Discuss, I suppose...
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#2
sorry to hear about this kinda crap man, it sucks i'd suggest rpobably that the best thing to do would be to discuss this situation with any teachers you can at school, explain that you wnana do music but your parents are being stupid about it. maybe they can have a word or something.
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#3
yeah i hate wehn parents do that, my dad tottaly messed up what i wanted to do for college because he wouldnt let me go to a theater conservatory (i was 17 when i was applying and started college, so he still had a lot of control.) I hayed normal college and ended up dropping out after a year vecause i just felt it was a major pain in the ass.

And on dotage, that is a really antiquated concept, your parents brought you into the world and raised you the way they did because they wanted too (or even if they didnt they brought the responsibility upon themselves one way or another) you owe them your love i suppose, but you dont owe them money. Your parents or at least your father seems really materialistic. You should talk to him about this, hell tell him that if you dont get to study what you want youll just drop out, and then he wont get jack, maybe thattl get his attention.
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#5
Ah, don't you love how Capitalism can even turn something as sacred as the family into just another means of production; just another way for the Owners to gain.
#6
I don't know where you live, but you may choose to emancipate yourself and become truly self-dependant. Be warned, this is a drastic step, not one to rush into. I know a couple of people who have done this. One has a very good job, is successful, and loves life, the other is in a prison in Kansas City for robbing vending machines.
#7
I do admire your principles though. I think it's really very important that a person does what he wants to with his life, as long as he enjoys what he does. For me personally, being an Indian guy, I was expected by my parents to become a doctor, accountant, or something like that. But, no, I held my ground and was so stubborn about what I wanted to do as a career, that they eventually gave in. And now, I'm planning to go to university and study Computer Games Development

Stick to your guns, man. Take advice, sure, but don't be dictated to about something that you adamantly do not want to do in later life.
#8
thats harsh man. you should murder them viciously with a hacksaw.
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#9
That really sucks. In the US, parents have no control over their child's education after 16. They can drop out, do whatever and it's totally legal. On topic, in the end all that really matters is what you want to do. Have fun, that is what school is really all about. It does prepare you, but if you don't live your life now, how are you going to later on? IF that makes any sense. Follow your own path, tell your parents to support you or **** off and do what you feel is right. In the end, you will be able to support them with money you earned doing what you wanted to do and had a hell of a good time doing it. All that really matters is the fun you have doing what you love.
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Last edited by 5thhorseman at Sep 29, 2006,
#12
That sucks man. **** them.
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#13
I know what you're going through with the argument that you owe them, i was always thínking, "You chose to have ME, so stop making me feel like i owe you". You irony of the situation is that if they honestly sat back and supported you, and supported your decisions, then you'd probably say "thanks Mum and Dad, for everything" But when they're like, "BLAH you owe us your life!" then i, like yourself, tend to get the "go stick it up your ass" attitude.
I had these problems last year in High School. They suck and the only solution is to keep fighting them to the last minute, get the written support of your teachers, tell your teachers that you don't want to do these subjects, and just keep fighting. Problem is, the fact that they are older, they generally think "well he's young, so he can't know what he wants to do with his life" which is Bull ****, you have a passion and your parents should support and encourage that. Be really calm, and tell your dad that if he makes you do a subject that you don't want to do, that you'll simply fail it. No it's not constructive but you've got a 1% of getting through to your parents. Talk to your mum, get all deep and meaningful with her and tell her that you just wish that they supported your passion.
It's a lose lose situation, just keep fighting. Go down Fighting, my only advice.
#15
Sorry if this offends you, but your dad is a cunt. Tell him to shove his plans for you and make it clear that he can't control your choices in life.

Either that, or become completely dependant on him, act like a little kid, and every time he tells you to stop, bring up the fact that he said all that crap.

An alternative is to become a carbon copy of him. Speak like him, walk like him, copy stuff he does. And then when he has a go at you for it, say you want to be him when you grow up or something.

Maybe then he'll realise what an arse he's being
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#16
Quote by The_bushidoka
I don't know where you live, but you may choose to emancipate yourself and become truly self-dependant.


I've thought about it, they've suggested it, but if I did that then I think it would be impossible for me to finish school where I am. I've been going to school for 11 years, I'm sure as hell going to finish it.

Quote by Bassic Chicken
I know what you're going through with the argument that you owe them, i was always thínking, "You chose to have ME, so stop making me feel like i owe you". You irony of the situation is that if they honestly sat back and supported you, and supported your decisions, then you'd probably say "thanks Mum and Dad, for everything" But when they're like, "BLAH you owe us your life!" then i, like yourself, tend to get the "go stick it up your ass" attitude.


That's it exactly.

Quote by Bassic Chicken
Problem is, the fact that they are older, they generally think "well he's young, so he can't know what he wants to do with his life"


They've pulled that one as well. I don't know conclusively that I know exactly what is best for me, but anyway, if a choice - my subjects for example - has been given to me specifically to decide, then whoever gave me the choice reckons I'm capable of making the right one for me. Schools have been teaching for a long time, so I think that they would know.

Quote by Kid_Thorazine
And on dotage, that is a really antiquated concept, your parents brought you into the world and raised you the way they did because they wanted too (or even if they didnt they brought the responsibility upon themselves one way or another) you owe them your love i suppose, but you dont owe them money


For a long time I thought the dotage was just a bad running joke, but 16 years is a long time to keep a joke nobody finds funny going. It make you think that a determination to see me get the highest paying job possible is motivated by an unhealthy dose of self-interest.

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It's a lose lose situation, just keep fighting. Go down Fighting, my only advice.

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#18
firstly, have some respect for your father. he's obviously worried about what might happen to you, cuz of what happened to him

u could always do music/sax outside of school. lets face it , you *wont* earn much money playing, most likely.
but what i'd do is: come to a compromise with your parents. tell them how u feel, that u understand their worry, but you'll work hard to get the points u need to go to uni, and do ur music at the same time. be sure and adult in your approach to this, clearly they want u to be
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#19
i have a couple questions before i can give an educated response.
Did this just start happening recently? relating to the "dotage" concept
Where do you live?
Do you seriously like your parents before this?
What do you plan on doing after wards?
#20
Quote by 2ndslash
thats harsh man. you should murder them viciously with a hacksaw.

What purpose does a post like that serve?


Sorry man, I dont know what to tell you. It stinks that you have to become the person they want and not who you want. I wish I could help somehow but I dont see how I can
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#21
Quote by The National D
(That's a ****ing quote - the most important thing I do with my life is not doing what I want, making myself happy, or being good to people; it's a goddamn TEST) and that it will determine what I do with my life. He is the ONLY person to say this.

that

is probably because of this:
Quote by The National D
(my dad messed up his high school, worked on ships for a long time, and became a surgeon about 10 years ago)

Quote by The National D
The way I see it, I don't owe them a single ****ing cent for bringing me up. If my parents ever need money from me because they have none of their own, I'll give them money, but I will NOT pay for my life on their principle. People are not born into debt, and raising a child should be an act of love and charity, a gift, and that's how I'll do it if I should ever have a child.

you've got a point there.... you should be grateful, and therefore give them money from time... but they can't make you... but not doing it either means a) you're poor or b) you're an ungratefull ass.

Well, would you consider yourself "well off"? do they spend a lot of money on you?
#22
my parents arent pushing me into any subjects. my dad wants to send me to grammah school tough. he was pretty dead set on it till i had a discussion with him about the man ways i WILL rebel if his plans are evr put into action. but i dont think that'll work for you.

but y the **** would ur parents want 'dotage' or whatever??!! thats the biggest load of **** ever!! y the **** would they ever evn ask u?? thats selfish. they deserve nothing o your income & ur perfectly rite about what u think about all of that.

u say ur in yr.11 VCE?? which country do u live in? weve got that in australia but im not sure if its the same 4 all the other countries. good luck...

but im going to be a paediatrician (childrens doc) when i get older, so theyre ok with all that. thy're gonna pay for uni & all that other ****.
well im afraid that ur in quite the pickle... not sure if iv got any advice,
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#23
Quote by Nickelbitch
my dad wants to send me to grammah school tough.

haha
#24
Quote by jallas
sorry to hear about this kinda crap man, it sucks i'd suggest rpobably that the best thing to do would be to discuss this situation with any teachers you can at school, explain that you wnana do music but your parents are being stupid about it. maybe they can have a word or something.

I agree with Jallas talk to the teachers i'm sure they can convince your parents.

My parents aren't like that but I can understand a little.
Every single cousin of mine and basically anyone I know is gonna be a doctor.I'm the only one that is interested in other stuff not the standard doctor,lawyer or engineer thing, it doesn't interest or appeal to me,I really like music. Luckily my parents aren't like that not yet anyways i'm only in tenth grade but i'm sure they'll do the same time college comes. Still they want me to do what makes me happy so they might not be so bad.
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Last edited by zeppelinpage4 at Sep 29, 2006,
#25
Some people just don't getthat money won't buy you happiness. Just ask Micheal Jackson.
Ain't Nuthin' But a UG Thang: Generic member of the UG Hip Hop/Guitar Music Equality Illuminati

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#26
Boycott. Do horribley in every class, and tell your dad you'll try harder if he lets you in the music class. Or at least make the threat.
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#27
I wanted to do music for VCE but they didnt have enought people so they cancelled it. Anyway I ended up getting an enter score of 50, which doesnt give you much chance of getting into uni.

If you do get a low score you can always go to tafe and then go to uni from there. Tafe is kind of like the backdoor of the education system.
#28
I really wish you the best of luck with this cuz I can tell it's important to you. Apparantly other people can too because this is the first thread I've seen with more than three intelligent responses.
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#30
I'm really sorry to hear that. You just have to stick to your guns and keep fighting them. If you explained your situation to your principal would he/she let you take the class if your dad refuses to sign?
And that dotage is bull****. What's your dad gonna do if you refuse to pay it?
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#31
Studying music might make you happy now, but I dunno how you are going to pay your own bills, unless a miracle happens and you become a rock star or some big musician on Broadway.

I say work on getting to that school and then study whatever you want once your inside.
#32
Dude, thats really sh*tty that you have to PAY your dad back for raising you. He had a kid, it's his f**king RESPONSIBILITY to raise you. Its not a job. You should lend them money from time to time and stuff, but that's crap that you HAVE to pay them.
#33
Quote by chillininfl
i have a couple questions before i can give an educated response.
Did this just start happening recently? relating to the "dotage" concept
Where do you live?
Do you seriously like your parents before this?
What do you plan on doing after wards?


He's been talking about a dotage for as long I can remember. It only occured to me recently that it's odd that the idea has been brought up 2 or 3 times a week, regular as clockwork, for more than 10 years.
I live in the boring old 'burbs of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Yes, and I still do. I'm pissed off at them, but I still like them.
After school? I haven't decided anything for certain, but I'm thinking about studying modern history at uni, and I want to get a band together and work the pub scene for a few years and perform as much as I can.

Quote by not enough
he's obviously worried about what might happen to you, cuz of what happened to him

Thats what he says, he "doesn't want me to make the same mistakes he did". That's all very well, but I consider it more important to make my own decisions than to make as few mistakes as possible, and if I end up somewhere where I don't want to be because I blindy took advice in order avoid other so-called mistakes, then that would be a bigger **** up then I had done what I wanted and messed up.

Quote by rayIII
you've got a point there.... you should be grateful, and therefore give them money from time... but they can't make you... but not doing it either means a) you're poor or b) you're an ungratefull ass.

As I said before, if a situation comes along where my parents need money, then I'll happily GIVE it to them. What I won't do though, is give them money or any kind of payment because they tell me I have a 'duty' or I 'owe' it to them because they spent money raising me.

Quote by pumpkins_rule
Some people just don't getthat money won't buy you happiness. Just ask Micheal Jackson.

Something that is actually scaring me that my parent have repeatedly told me that they think the only way I can be happy is to get a job that pays enough to buy lots of things. I honestly don't know what is more frightening, that they believe lots of money to "pay for your hobbies" is a sure-fire way to happiness, or that they think or would say they think that I could be happy working at something I hate or am indifferent to so I can buy a pile of stuff.
Anyway, isn't Micheal Jackson broke?
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#34
isnt watching your son grow up a good enough price? Yeah, tell em that. Stick it to the man.
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#35
Quote by The National D
I haven't decided anything for certain, but I'm thinking about studying modern history at uni, and I want to get a band together and work the pub scene for a few years and perform as much as I can.



My mom has never liked me pursuing music (Dad is ok about it though), she is worried about me getting into drugs and all that. But I have about the same plan as you except instead of modern history I'm going into anthropology.

I would just try explaining it to them as much as possible, it may take awhile (it did for my mom).

That "Paying them back for raising you" thing is a bunch of BS.
#36
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true, god bless communism

**** communism
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#37
Uh...your parents are cluster-****s (no offense). I suggest talking to a counseler (spelling?), or someone that you feel you can really trust and talk to for advice.
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#38
Quote by The National D

Anyway, isn't Micheal Jackson broke?


Well yeah, but only because he had to pay so mahy people off for dumb things he did while he was rich. Rich or poor he still would have been a creepy pedofile. Rich and poor people will both get depressed, both feel happy, both encounter problems, both deal with birth and death. Poor people have to deal with having too much money, rich people have to deal with the boredom and emptiness of having almost anything they want. Money can make life more comfortable, but it won't nessecarily make it better.
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Quote by mydarkesthour

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Quote by mydarkesthour
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#39
thread starter: listen to Dream Theater's album Train of Thought while you cool down. Trust me, you'll totally relate to it, lyrics and all.

then talk to your school counselor, the music teachers at school, any respectable adults other than your parents that would help you go down the path you want. Talk to them, and see if any of them can persuade your parents that music is a worthy line of work.

and about your parents thinking that you owe them money for raising you, ask them this vital question: is this reasonable?

Write them a letter about how you feel about how unreasonable this is, how raising a child is not a financial investment but an act of love and charity. Tell you dad how incredibly selfish he is being is as level-headed a manner as you know how.
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