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#41
you completely forgot kt88's and kt66's, and that 6L6's have a bajillion different types, like groove tubes for bluesy jam stuff and other 6L6's (name pending, lol) for 5150 and high gain mesa type stuff.

but overall, good job, lol.

+2
Quote by SeveralSpecies
Btw, I don't spell it doughnut, because that spells duff-nut.
#42
I didn't forget them. I just didn't have any to test. If you or anyone else does have experience with these, let me know and I will add them to the list.
#43
Quote by Roc8995
I didn't forget them. I just didn't have any to test. If you or anyone else does have experience with these, let me know and I will add them to the list.



ive got a groove tube matched quad of KT88s powering my VHT pitbull 100UL.

the things are beautiful. crystal clear cleans. pure power most amps or companies dont support the KT88 due to its high output. they usually output 50W per tube. but the cleans you get are amazing. if you have good preamp tubes your distortion will be insane and when you get KT88s to distort the distortion is so nice. but you have to bias them hot so they can distort. if they are not biased hot they will NOT distort. one con to them is they cost almost 300USD for a matched quad.
#44
That's good, but I'm trying to show the differences between brands and not tube types. What kind of 88s do you have and how do they compare to other brands?
#45
Quote by Roc8995
That's good, but I'm trying to show the differences between brands and not tube types. What kind of 88s do you have and how do they compare to other brands?


there is one company that makes KT88 but nobody here is gonna drop the cash to buy them. ive used them once much too expensive

they are Genelex KT88s and they are a lot better then groove tube. but look at the price

GT-300 for matched quad
genelex- 400 per tube.
Last edited by rocknrollgod at Nov 30, 2006,
#46
but if you want the goods you should check out tubedepot.com

they sell everything. thats where i buy my tubes. but i buy in bulk. like thousand dollar orders. but i dont use cheap ass tubes either. i use groove tubes in some amps. but any amp that has EL34s in it. i use Mullard XF-1s.

and preamp i use telefunken 12ax7.

the mullards are 300 a tube and OMG sound awesome they are really smooth sounding. but Really hard to find and tubedepot is the only place to get them.

and the telefunken 12ax7s go for 150 a tube. and are increadible. really powerful
#49
I would say that's not true. What makes the Marshall sound is the circuit, especially the tone stack. There have been Marshalls that run on 6l6s and KT88s that sound every bit as marshally as the El34 versions. Jimi Hendrix ran many of his amps on KTs and don't tell me that isn't the classic Marshall sound.
#50
^w0rd
I'm not very active here on UG currently.
I'm a retired Supermod off to the greener pastures of the real world.
#51
^Thanks. Do you think the first post here could get merged w/the gear sticky for reference?
#52
Quote by Roc8995
I would say that's not true. What makes the Marshall sound is the circuit, especially the tone stack. There have been Marshalls that run on 6l6s and KT88s that sound every bit as marshally as the El34 versions. Jimi Hendrix ran many of his amps on KTs and don't tell me that isn't the classic Marshall sound.


agreed... but I can also tell from the tone that's it's not just as "el-34-ey"- there's a glassiness there (i think hendrix ran some of his marshalls on 6L6's/5881's too) that you don't really get with the el34's.

bit of both.

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
#53
Good thread.
Feel free to call me Kyle.

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#54
So I heard that KT88 has a more POWERFUL sound, what does that mean ??

Just more midrange ??
Tone is all ...... well probably 75%, in your fingers.
The rest depends on your wallet's thickness !!

Keep the faith, baby!!
#55
how about the reissue mullards?
are they just as great as the nos ones?
JAMONE
#56
Quote by sHieZaN
how about the reissue mullards?
are they just as great as the nos ones?


No. Not at all. The 12AX7s tend to fail a lot. They do sound good, at least the ones that work.
#57
Quote by sHieZaN
how about the reissue mullards?
are they just as great as the nos ones?


no they are pretty much rebranded sovtek tubes.
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#58
oh
then what el34's do you recommend for marshalls?
i dont know why, but my tsl with JJ e34l's have horrible bass, and if i run it in low gain, it sounds dull and boring.
i want tubes that would sound good with low gain and also high gain.
i think i have svetlanas before my JJ's, and i used to have like 2x more gain than before, and the crunch channel was actually useable, but now i avoid it, because the crunch channel is really bad. it doesnt even crunch, its just a distorted moan.
JAMONE
#59
id suggest E34Ls i have them in my JCM 900, it used to sound a bit weak, and the clean channel broke up easily, which i didn't like, and the distortion was a bit too grainy, not the cleans stay clean, unless i don't want them to, and the distortion sound 10x better, i don't know how to describe the difference, but its phenomenal. i really reccomend them
Quote by TehJermie
you can get that toneblaster stack at the cost of your dignity.

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fine, screw the cheese sandwich if you must...


#60
yea i probably biased the e34l's wrong or something to make it sound like crap.

i think i also put the wrong tube in the phase inverter. for the PI should i put a tube with balanced triodes?
what about the rest of the preamp slots?
i think im going to try out tung-sols soon because i hear they sound liek mullards


oh
and is it ok to replace my el34's with kt77's in my marshall tsl?
JAMONE
Last edited by sHieZaN at Dec 26, 2006,
#61
Quote by sHieZaN
yea i probably biased the e34l's wrong or something to make it sound like crap.

i think i also put the wrong tube in the phase inverter. for the PI should i put a tube with balanced triodes?
what about the rest of the preamp slots?
i think im going to try out tung-sols soon because i hear they sound liek mullards


oh
and is it ok to replace my el34's with kt77's in my marshall tsl?


The PI tube does not have to be balanced. A lot of people will argue this point, and if you want to get a balanced tube you can, but the circuit itself is not balanced and therefore the tube doesn't have to be. Balanced tubes were meant for hi-fi applications, certainly not the goal in guitar amps.

I would make sure the amp is biased properly, weak bass may mean the bias is too cold.
#62
Yucks, the "Merge" option looks really confusing. . .

I'll sticky this for now, until I find something else to do with it.
#63
is it ok to replace my Marshall JCM 900 tubes with Tungsol 12AX7 Tubes and EL34 power tubes?

How are the Svetlana EL34 Tubes?:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Svetlana-EL34-Tube?sku=212620

On the description, it says theyre good for Marshall amps. is that true? And when you go to the options, it says "hard", "Medium", and "soft". Are those the hardness of the tube? Please explain. And what do they mean by "quartlet" and "duet"?
#64
For a Marshall, I'd go with JJ EL34s and Tung-Sol AX7s. You can get JJs at eurotubes.com.

Hard/med/soft will be characteristics of the tube, with soft being a compressed sound and hard being more percussive. A quartet is 4 matched tubes, a duet is two.
#65
^^^which hardness will be more suited with 80's metal and thrash metal like metallica and some judas priest?
#68
im ordering my groove tubes on musiciansfriend, but what does itt mean by
(medium 7-10 GT rating)?
JAMONE
#69
that means that they are medium gain tubes. really you can bias any tubes hot or cold but tubes rated "medium" are tested to perform best when biased in the middle.
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#70
Quote by Roc8995
The PI tube does not have to be balanced. A lot of people will argue this point, and if you want to get a balanced tube you can, but the circuit itself is not balanced and therefore the tube doesn't have to be. Balanced tubes were meant for hi-fi applications, certainly not the goal in guitar amps.

I would make sure the amp is biased properly, weak bass may mean the bias is too cold.

I don't understand how the circuit being unbalanced relates to not using a balanced phase inverter. That's the whole point of using matched power tubes, so the power circuit is as balanced as possible. The phase inverter splits the 2 halves of the sine wave into the positive and negative part of the wave. Each side of the wave then gets sent to the power tube pairs, where one set is responsible for the positive side, and one for the negative side of the signal. If it's not balanced, you get deformation in the wave where it can sound harsh, and can get inconsistencies in the sound where certain notes sustain, and others die off prematurely. If it matters in hi-fi, why wouldn't it matter in guitar amps? Those are the only 2 places where tubes are still the major component of the sound. Also, I still haven't seen any empirical evidence that JJ preamp tubes have a higher failure rate than other preamp tubes. Is this just from your own experience?
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#71
do you guys have any experiences with the SED winged C el34s?
i heard theyre the original svetlanas and kick ass. what do you guys think of them? any other recommendations?
if the old teslas are really that great, i would pay for them too, but im still not sure yet.
JAMONE
#72
winged-c tubes are good, i just put some of their KT88s in my amp to replace the original stock GE tubes that have been in there forever, the GE tubes actually still tested pretty well but the winged Cs sounded better, so yeah they are very good tubes in general, havent tried their EL34s though.
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#73
Quote by Erock503
I don't understand how the circuit being unbalanced relates to not using a balanced phase inverter. That's the whole point of using matched power tubes, so the power circuit is as balanced as possible. The phase inverter splits the 2 halves of the sine wave into the positive and negative part of the wave. Each side of the wave then gets sent to the power tube pairs, where one set is responsible for the positive side, and one for the negative side of the signal. If it's not balanced, you get deformation in the wave where it can sound harsh, and can get inconsistencies in the sound where certain notes sustain, and others die off prematurely. If it matters in hi-fi, why wouldn't it matter in guitar amps? Those are the only 2 places where tubes are still the major component of the sound. Also, I still haven't seen any empirical evidence that JJ preamp tubes have a higher failure rate than other preamp tubes. Is this just from your own experience?


If by "balanced" you mean that each triode in the PI is equal, yes, closer is probably better. I don't think that the different triodes in a 12a*7 type tube have that much variation though, at least far less than the power tubes. And on top of that, they're cathode biased which means that you don't have the issue really of one being biased too hot and one too cold. Now there are some tubes where one triode has a totally different gain than the other, and I wouldn't sub in one of these. But in general I don't think there's enough variation between different triodes in one tube to warrant matching them closely. On top of that, most guitar amps run mostly in class A until you really start to push them. And since a guitar signal isn't really a pure sine wave anyways, some distortion doesn't really throw it off much. Tube amps are also often associated with asymmetrical clipping, which means that the positive and negative sides of the wave are clipped differently. For example the Keeley DS-1 mod is a popular example of "mimicking" (to the extent possible) tube amp distortion by making the clipping asymmetrical. Power tubes are mostly matched to prevent crossover distortion, which is a different matter. It sounds gross.

Sorry for the long rambly structure.
I'm not very active here on UG currently.
I'm a retired Supermod off to the greener pastures of the real world.
#74
yeah, I meant balanced as in each triode of the pi being equal. So it's really not an issue than to use a tube with balanced triodes Pink? Every tube guy I've talked to said you want that, but I guess they are selling them for extra money that way too. It makes sense though what you are saying, but the only time I'm really finicky about the sound is when I'm pushing them hard. That's the best part of having a tube amp for me, so I would imagine I'm well into class A/B most of the time. I use a multi for low vol practice.

And yeah, I've heard crossover distortion, it is eww. I'm not clear on the matching to prevent crossover distortion though. As in, the tubes all having simliar values so none are running too cold compared the rest, or is there another reason? Thanks Pink.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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Last edited by Erock503 at Dec 27, 2006,
#75
Every time I mention that a balanced tube isn't necessary I get the same response, which is basically 'But that's what they told me!,' containing no evidence at all. The point is that Pink is correct- the tubes are cathode biased and there's just not much variation. When I say that the circuit itself isn't balanced I mean that onthe original Fenders for example, the plate resistors were two completely different values- 82k and 100k. This is true of most amps, which means that the tube doesn't need to be balanced because the circuit it's in is not.
#76
The thing is that there isn't that much variation in preamp tube triodes within each tube. Sure, it could be closer, but it's generally close enough. Poweramp tubes nowadays have much more variation, and so they're sold in matched pairs. Crossover distortion is when a little notch of sorts occurs when the wave passes from negative to positive or vice versa. If the biasing of the power tubes doesn't allow the signal to be cleanly amplified (the tube starts to cut out in the wrong spot) you get that ugly distortion.
I'm not very active here on UG currently.
I'm a retired Supermod off to the greener pastures of the real world.
#77
Quote by Roc8995
Every time I mention that a balanced tube isn't necessary I get the same response, which is basically 'But that's what they told me!,' containing no evidence at all. The point is that Pink is correct- the tubes are cathode biased and there's just not much variation. When I say that the circuit itself isn't balanced I mean that onthe original Fenders for example, the plate resistors were two completely different values- 82k and 100k. This is true of most amps, which means that the tube doesn't need to be balanced because the circuit it's in is not.

lol, ok, I concede, you have established it's not absolutely necessary, since there shouldn't be that much variation to begin with. However, ideally the closer the better, so I still think it's worth the extra $2-3 for the "one" tube to have it as close as possible. Maybe if it were a significant difference in price I would think otherwise.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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Last edited by Erock503 at Dec 28, 2006,
#78
Quote by Erock503
However, ideally the closer the better,


That's the problem. As long as the triodes aren't wildly mismatched (something I have never come across), it doesn't matter at all. Not a bit. Not 'ideally,' not anything. Matched sections are for stereos and people who don't know better.
#79
hey uh i have a question (i dont know whether i should be asking here so ill post it also as a new thread)

i just got a marshall jcm 900 50 WATT head yesterday and im really happy with it but i noticed that i want a lot more gain than it gives me (dont get me wrong, i love the crunch sounding distortion and everything about it, i just want to be able to have more gain)

im thinking that maybe the guy who had it last (the amp is used of course) put in tubes that werent really meant for any real high gain/hard rock/metal stuff, and since im into that type of music (kinda GNR high gain crunch sounding really) i was thinking about replacing the old tubes with new ones to fit my style

now yes i have thought about getting an overdrive or distortion pedal to boost up my gain but i have decided not to (dont try to convince me)

now im looking for tubes that are very agressive and can give me a high gain crunch much like guns n roses appetite for destruction type sound

please helpp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and if ur really nice, please give me all the matching tubes so i dont get confused)
#80
Your problem is probably more due to the fact that there are few places on earth where you can properly crank a 50 watt Marshall without getting arrested. However, a new set of tubes can help. Don't expect miracles, but you can probably pull a bit more gain out the amp. For high gain tubes, email Bob at Eurotubes.com (go to the website for contact info) and ask for a high gain set of tubes for your specific amp. He'll make sure you get a high gain set of JJs.